Posts by oldkeith

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    Hmm. Jungian psychology posits that many fantastical forms originate in the human subconscious.

    Therefore it should follow that they will be found in similar forms in the myths and legends of many different earthly societies, widely separated in space and time.....

    This of course raises the question of where did the subconscious draw them from?

    Perhaps from the collective unconscious of mankind? But then that itself can be looked upon as a human racial memory....:reddevil:

    Either this is just a tall fat tale or those guys in Czechoslovakia were entirely off their rocker... Covering a lie with a bigger, flashier one when the very existence of Jesus is a matter of debate. My bet: just an urban legend.

    It must be tough if you have a closed mind. There have been quite a number of cults over the years since WW2 that have also espoused the idea of Jesus being some kind of spaceman. Like you I also have doubts about his existence, at least in the form given by the various Christian religions. Paul and those who followed in his footsteps were responsible for a great deal of holy empire building, during which no doubt massive amounts of religious myths were added to the slim existing stories, which at that time would have been mostly word-of-mouth.

    But whatever the religious history of the churches, there is no doubt that under the Soviets those Czechs of a religious peculiarity were persecuted in a variety of ways, and eventually religious studies were banned from the school curriculum altogether. So it is quite possible that in earlier days, when anti-religious pressure was first applied, ways were sought to make religious ideas more logical and less fantastic, in the hope that the authorities would let some kind of religious mythology continue.

    What is off your rocker about teaching that Jesus was a spaceman anyway? It certainly sounds more logical than that Jesus worked miracles. I met a number of people who were quite sane in everyday affairs, Dutch and English, who had this - to me then - novel idea. Like any other theory, if there is no evidence, it doesn't hold water; it is just a supposition, perhaps to some even a belief, but a belief slightly more rational than the ones they learned when young, that's all.

    That was quite some time ago, and the accounts were quite matter-of-fact. The reason seemingly that the teaching of religion was not encouraged under the Soviets, but, if such stories were given more prosaic explanations which avoided the supernatural, they were allowed by the censors.

    I'll try and look up any references for you, but my recent searches have revealed nothing either.

    At one time I took some interest in UFO's and the whole extra-terrestrial scene, and met nutters and interested scientific types in equal number. A few were both, of course. The whole 'Jesus was a spacemen' idea may have originated in Eastern Europe, I don't know. Certainly it was prevalent in Holland in the 1960's, when I first came across it.

    People were waking up - or perhaps only young people were waking up! - in the 1960's, and lots of alternative explanations were being sought and bandied about for many things which up to that time had been accepted without question. I had a friend at one time who was really sold on the idea of Jesus being some kind of spaceman, and it could be a bit embarrassing when interviewing people to have him come out with these far out ideas....:whistle:

    Even doing measurements for a bit of carpentry today, I tend to use both imperial and metric systems. Feet and inches are fine for fairly rough work, down to millimetres for the finer stuff.

    Asking around at the Shed, I found a lot of retired craftsmen my age said they had always done this, it was a damn sight easier than using fractions of an inch.

    It might be laughable, but during the Soviet era in Eastern Europe, Czech children were taught - presumably in an attempt to give some logical credence to the New Testament - that Jesus was an alien who came here to spread the good word, and when it came time for the Ascension, it was a spaceship that came for him. I have even seen the children's book illustrations of the Ascension depicting this.

    A suggestion that the beings from another planet have created this simulation.

    I prefer the idea that we are real, but an experiment.

    Wasn't it Shakespeare who said something about all the world's a stage and we are players in it.

    Yes, I mentioned him in my post above.

    But to have a play, or a stage, or a simulation, you must first have a reality on which your simulation is based. As we live in a particular sort of world, it follows that any beings from elsewhere who have created this simulation must have particular conditions very much like our own, otherwise they would not be able to simulate them.

    This postulate is quite easily proven:

    Simulate or describe a world that is nothing like ours, has natural laws of which we are completely unaware, and beings who are nothing whatsoever anything like us, nor like anything any human being has ever imagined.

    This is not possible, of course.

    Therefore, if we are some kind of simulation, whoever is responsible for simulating us must live in an environment and in conditions quite similar to our own, otherwise they could not simulate it.

    Think of a film; they all either feature humans, or have human associations, and usually take place in a relatively known environment. A film is usually a simple simulation of some aspects of human life. It follows that if we are indeed a simulation, we must be a simulation of some aspects of an extra-terrestrial or other-worldly life. But one that has to be extra-ordinarily like our own:)

    Good gracious, you do have a polarised view of the future....:)

    As for partners, my O/H and me are both on the left. She's maybe a bit more liberal-left than me. She figures I'm a bit more authoritarian left.....:whistle:

    We like talking politics sometimes, but not for hours.

    She's for the EU, I'm for out, although I don't think we should tie ourselves to the Yanks. Blair and company did a lot of that, back in the day, and we got dragged into wars not of our making. One thing about the left, if they are running the country they won't get dragged into American wars.

    I quite like Buddhism because, unlike most religions, it does not try to convert you. Instead, it merely says: 'When you feel ready, come and join us....'

    Buddhism also has no god.

    The idea that we might be living in a simulation is by no means new. The idea goes back to at least the Ancient Greeks, and perhaps long before.

    In those days it came across that the world was a stage of sorts, a theatre for the gods, and we were given particular parts to play by the gods, who watched for their amusement. Presumably they wrote the script, too, or perhaps the actors had some limited input themselves.

    Whether as actors we got to pick our parts, or were just given them willy-nilly, is a moot point.

    This kind of idea survived in folklore to at least Shakespeare's time, as you will be aware.

    An interesting point about the above, in some contrast to the modern idea of a simulation, is that the ancients postulated that 'we' lived in some kind of reality elsewhere, in between acting roles. In the modern idea of a 'simulation', 'we' are often classed as part of the simulation, rather than acting in a simulation.

    If 'we' were actually part of a simulation, we wouldn't be able to know that, of course. And as ZD says, it wouldn't really matter, because we couldn't do anything about it, even if we had suspicions.

    But if 'we' were acting in somebody else's simulation, it raises many interesting questions.

    One of the interesting questions raised about extra-terrestrials is the Fermi Paradox, with which some of you may be familiar. This postulates that if our galaxy has been in existence anywhere near the period of time we think it has, in that time intelligent life should have evolved in a myriad different places, and there has been more than plenty of time for our galaxy to have been explored and colonised, over and over, even at speeds which we could achieve. If so, where are they all?

    Are they keeping away deliberately? Is Earth out of bounds? Is it a kind of asylum for mad souls and those who would try to care for them?

    Or is it in fact some kind of dubious experiment that has so far gone wrong? And if so, under whose crazy tutelage has it gone so far wrong?

    Some of you may be aware of some of the ideas of certain sects of early Christians (Gnostics), who were eventually hunted down and destroyed by the Roman Catholic Empire, because they held beliefs that the world was run by an imbecilic Overlord, a Demiurge, instead of the approved Lord of Creation. These ideas came from a very long time before Christianity, of course, and were no doubt created from personal observation that the world, so far as human affairs were concerned, was a mad and dangerous place, with clearly no benevolent Overlord in charge.

    Enough for tonight! There are always more questions than answers, but it is always interesting to discuss the origins of this place in which we find ourselves, and the history of the human race.

    Interesting thread, not the first we've had here on extra-terrestrials, and certainly won't be the last.

    ('Aliens' probably isn't used so much now, as some may consider it to be politically-incorrect, as it might be seen as a right-wing reference to immigrants, refugees, etc.....:whistle:).

    Re the Dinosaurs being part of some advanced extra-terrestrial experiment, I rather think not. They were here for around 180 million years, maybe longer. By all accounts they did not evolve into intelligent beings in all that time, and were wiped out by an asteroid strike, as stated above. No advanced race of extra-terrestrials is going to wait that long for signs of intelligence to emerge!

    By very stark comparison, we - the human race - have probably been here for less than 10 million years, yet in that comparatively short time we have evolved an 'intelligence' sufficient to threaten our very future on the planet. There is apparently a great biological mystery here. We have not been here nearly long enough to have evolved this way naturally, not if the laws of natural selection are anywhere near correct. (Name me just one other terrestrial species that have evolved anything like such intelligence in 10 million years. Or even 500 million years!).

    So it follows that at certain periods in our history here, there has been biological intervention of some kind. Whether it is still continuing is an interesting point. I have little doubt that we are - or were - the subjects of some kind of experiment, but at the present time it looks as if the lunatics are in complete charge of the asylum. The object of such experiments might be very difficult for beings at our level of intelligence to determine, much as the bacteria in the Petri dish probably have no idea of why they are there.

    Yes, I too have a sort of utilitarian approach to repairing kit. As long as I can make it work, and do the intended job, is really enough. I'm not bothered about what it might look like if it's in use around the place. I always tend to build in more strength or make a stronger repair than what the job was like originally. If it wears out again, it ain't my bit that broke!

    I got talked into putting some shyte furniture from Ikea together for a neighbour the other day. What a load of crap it was; everything, fittings included, was really shoddy. I even went online to find out if it was just me, but found hundreds of opinions that were exactly the same. Not just Ikea either; most flat-pack furniture was found to be rubbish.
    My mate, a carpenter, came home one day to find his gf had bought a cupboard from Ikea. When he'd finished swearing, he had to put it together, and as he did so, he put in lots of extra battens and brackets, and strengthening ribs, mostly inside out of sight, of course. When they came to move it, it weighed about twice as much as it did originally, but at least it didn't fall apart!

    Not much wildlife over here carries covid except people, Prepper. It's highly unlikely that even wild bats have it, although they might well have something else.

    Now if you were going batting in Yunnan province, that might be a different matter.....:reddevil:

    Deep-fried anything isn't supposed to be good for you...:(

    Raw food, or food conservatively-cooked, is supposed to be best, of course. :)

    But raw potatoes aren't at all nice, and raw locusts I must admit I haven't tried. Even fried, one might find that locusts provided more protein, of course....:whistle:

    Well, that sure is one helluva personal history, Steve!

    My folks argued a lot, most often over money. That was in the days -1950's - when to increase general trade the government of the day let a woman's signature on an hire purchase agreement mean she signed for her husband's responsibility too.

    So sometimes travelling salesmen would talk my mother into buying new furniture we couldn't afford, while my old man was at work. The news that we would be having a new settee, dining suite, wardrobe, bed, you name it, delivered in the next week or two, that we couldn't pay for, let alone find room for, made him do his nut. The rows would go on all night, and I'd be hiding under the bedclothes in my little bedroom unable to sleep, sickened at the shouting and swearing and threats to walk out from one or the other of them. Then go to school next day with all this on my mind, worried that one or the other would be missing when I got back. They did occasionally, but always returned within a few days.

    Sometime we only had the new furniture for a few weeks, then grim-faced men would arrive to take it back again. I lost count of the times we lost the telly, and that was only on the monthly leasing.

    If anything, it all taught me never to buy on credit, unless it was something I had to, like a house or a car.

    I had lost both parents by the time I was 17, and kind of got shoved into earning a living and scraping by early on.

    I don't like violence of any kind either, and have more than once had to step between folks to prevent things getting physical, even though scared stiff.

    Yes, lots of parents argued, fought, left temporarily, etc., in those days, just as now. At our level of society, money and drink were the biggest cause. Not enough of one, and sometimes too much of the other. My old man never drank much, but lots of local men used to take their pay packets into the pub on their way home from work on Friday nights, and their wives would have to go down at 8 o'clock or later, the dinner spoiled, looking for their men and what was left of their money.

    "Your schooldays are the best days of your life" They told me. That was all balls, for a start.

    Hiya Esper, good to have you aboard!

    You'll like it here, we got all those qualities you list on here in the threads someplace, and lots more besides.

    New Age Travellers get a bit of a raw deal in some - most? - areas of the UK nowadays, and tend to keep under the radar. We have some folks on here who were in the New Age Travellers way back when, 1980's, who can probably tell you some interesting stories.

    Don't know that I actually love anything about myself particularly, but I like that I always try to be fair-minded, try to see the best in folks, and try to share when I can.

    I also like that I have become a persistent bastard over the years.....:):reddevil::)

    25C here today in the shade, so a bit of a sweaty one. Started working outside on an old vintage Workmate bench we'd been given, put new top boards on, then tried to figure out how to lengthen the short stubby legs - some feet were missing - so it would be a comfortable height to work at.... But it got so hot working in the sun I took the bench inside into the passage under the flats with the doors open to get a bit of a breeze.

    Didn't do much this year. Solstice proper was on Saturday, so we had a really good meal and a celebratory bottle of wine with a wet and windy night outside.

    Some of both food and wine was left over for tonight (Sunday), so we celebrated again....:)

    We'll probably have to call you Mel then?

    Nice name, Mel... I knew a Melissa once....:whistle:

    No, everyone is welcome at Dovedale. Read the posts in those threads RT (Rogue Trader) has posted the links to; you'll see lots of new folks who went really enjoyed themselves and wrote about it afterwards.

    Being partly Irish myself, I'll answer the last question first...:whistle:

    Taking life should really only be governed by necessity. Therefore the question of taking human life is unlikely to arise very often; indeed one hopes not at all.

    Necessity often depends on environment. If you live in a harsh environment, you are more likely to be under the necessity of taking animal lives in order to stay alive yourself.

    If you live in a tropical or semi-tropical environment where fruits and nuts and vegetable crops can be easily grown, you are less likely to be under the necessity to kill in order to stay alive.

    Those who live in temperate climes or arid zones are likely to be somewhere between those two extremes, so mixed farming or keeping herds became the norm over thousands of years.

    Of course in modern life we have become lazy in this matter, and lost much respect for animal lives. Factory farming ensures we never see the animals we eat, let alone see them killed. To many young children meat is just another something on supermarket shelves, nicely over-packaged in plastic, like everything else. I have seen sensitive kids burst into tears when told what meat is, and where it comes from.

    As regards belief, I try to take a philosophical approach. Therefore one tries to look at religions logically. When you do this in an analytical way, most of them become absurd.

    I do not 'believe' in any religions because I place them in same category of fantasy as Father Christmas, or The Lord of the Rings, etc. Some may have ethical lessons for us, but once a religious philosophy becomes established as a state religion, or as a cult of some kind, it becomes a method for expansionism and control.

    But having said that, I think humans, and perhaps even the more highly-evolved animals, have what might be termed a spiritual side. This is nothing to do with religion, of course. It is more an appreciation of the world we live in, and of what we are, and the mysteries of where we were before we found ourselves here, and why we are here, and where we shall be going when we leave this place. I do not think we are purely an accident, or we would be wasted when we left. Nature never wastes anything, every leaf of every tree is returned to the soil, to be used again.

    Hi MJ, nice to have you aboard:hi:

    There's a few more pics of lovely Dovedale here, mostly pics of the countryside around the campsite. You can look at the pics there, or download them by clicking the three dots in a row on your r/h/s, which drops menu, just click download.

    (I'd forgotten I still had them on there, but the old link in the 2016 thread, top of page 10, is broken).

    You're welcome here, mate!

    We got all sorts here, but they all seem to get along pretty well, most of the time.

    An interesting lot.

    Take time to read some of the back threads, and get a flavour of the place.

    You'll like it!:peaceman:

    A lot of truth there about mass indoctrination. I did psychology once, and part of that course was on indoctrination - brain-washing it used to be called in common parlance - and it was pretty interesting. Used by everybody from cults to the advertising industry and politicians to the military, in some form or other. And still is, of course. It follows much the same pattern as a sales formula.

    Make the sucker feel bad or deprived or out of it in some way.

    Offer your product as the solution.

    Get the sucker hooked on your product, to the exclusion of all others.

    Religion, of course, works exactly the same way.....:reddevil:

    Travel the so called third world and you will find swathes of people who don't give a shit about those outside their sometimes very small circle and some who truly want the demise of many others. Whilst poor or non existent education and plain old stupidity plays a part in this it would be wrong to rule out natural genetic protectionism an important and I think practical behaviour.

    You don't need to travel the Third World to meet people like that, mate! There are plenty of them on our estate alone, and from what I can gather, a fair proportion of the modern British public in general.

    From a logical point of view, what you are explaining in your post is perfectly valid. The very question "Do any lives matter?" is so generalised that it means nothing without some kind of a qualifier.

    And what is meant by 'Matter?' It usually means something under consideration, or something being dealt with. Here apparently it is being used to denote personal concern.

    Any lives only really matter to a few people who are in some way involved with any of those lives.

    For example, there is a bad air crash out East, and 200 people are killed, all Indonesian and Chinese. Do any of us give a damn? Those people's lives mattered to their relatives and friends as much as ours would, but that is all, that is as far as it goes.

    If they had all been a bit closer to 'our' tribe, say Australians or Canadians, we might have given them a feeling of passing sympathy, but that is about all.

    If they had been Brits we might have stopped and figured whether we had any friends or relatives abroad out that way at that time, but discovering we didn't, well, they get our sympathy, but that's about all.

    Why? Because they do not matter to us, personally. We can all (I hope) know injustice when we see it, and respond accordingly, but to coin a generalised statement which logically means nothing is just a crowd-pulling slogan.

    Cats' lives matter too, but only to those who know them.

    We didn't leave nowt on the plate as kids in the 50's. If you didn't like greens or such, that was tough. Because you got them first at the next meal, served up on an empty plate. If you didn't eat them you got beggar all else that day.

    So nowt was left on your plate, unless you were badly ill. At school dinners, if you left anything on your plate and went to plate hatch, you were turned back by the teacher on duty, and told to eat it before you came for seconds or 'afters'.

    We still clean up plates these days, but at least now we can decide what's on it.:)