Posts by Noctula

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    My last blub was watching Toy Story 3 a couple of days ago.....I cried at the end because Andy was giving all his toys away but it meant Woody and Buzz and co had a new child to play with them but it was all happy-sad :cry: :o

    Now that's the sort of thing I'd do! I can't even watch weddings on TV without crying... or the latest one:


    I missed that :) (But I have found myself welling up at stuff on Cbeebies! :o )

    Well crying isn't a symptom it's own - and your crying at things that evoke emotions (good and bad) rather than crying for no obvious reason so your probably not. I just thought I'd check.

    Sometimes I have to manage my crying if it's 'inappropriate' by staring at a particular spot in the distance and concentrating very hard (yeah, that sounds a little bonkers but it works - mostly.) Maybe you could try that?

    I don't think you have to worry until this happens >>> I was bridesmaid at a friends wedding about 4/5 years ago and ended up crying a *lot* standing behind the bride in the middle of church - the crying I could do silently and I had my back to everyone, it's the sniffing up the resulting snotty runny nose that I struggled with :p I also tend to flap my hand in front of my face when crying (as if that'll somehow help!) which I struggled not to do as well ;) There's a photo somewhere of my friend, in her wedding dress, comforting me after they'd signed the register! :eek:

    I thought that sort of stuff was normal. At least I'm hoping it is :p I know I react like that to a lot of things (I started crying over a Daily Mail article today :eek: Now that's worrying!). And I know I definitely didn't react like that as a child :S

    Just to tick the box - you're not depressed are you?

    Theism is belief in some form of god. Belief is blind because it is unquestionable; the validity of this belief is not negotiable for a theist. Theism contains atleast one belief that is not subject to scientific, rational thought process. Does it usually end with one belief? Never.

    Even the mildest attempts to propagate this belief will add auxiliary and corollary beliefs, eventually building into a belief system. The established belief systems have morphed into highly successful and hugely powerful political entities. Welcome to organised religion.

    So if you're talking Theism in the broadest sense (belief in some kind of god as you state) rather in a more specific belief in a monotheistic god (and associated interactions with us/the universe/whatever) then that only leaves Atheism? No room for maneuver?

    Any room for spirituality at all in your rational world? :p

    (Being rational can be a dangerous thing, you can rationalise anything you want and be equally stubborn and unmoving in that "rational" state as someone with an "irrational" belief system :D)

    And that's my point. It's an entirely artificial distinction. Ethically, there's no more justification for eating animals than there is for eating children. If people want to eat animals, then that's fine - we all have different boundaries of what we find ethically acceptable. But it irritates me when people need to construct ethical justifications or pretend that they somehow "care" about animals. People eat it because they like the taste. It's as simple as that.

    I didn't say they didn't eat meat for that reason and I wasn't commenting on artificial construct - but you can still care about the welfare of the animal while it's alive. You can still care about how it lives it's life. That's what I meant about caring about animals, regardless of whether you ultimately choose to eat it or not.

    You can care about animals but still want to eat them - I don't think that's mutually exclusive :p Plus, the fear levels between an animal unaware it's about to be shot and killed and an animal waiting at the slaughterhouse with the scent of fear and panic permeating everything isn't really comparable (in my view).

    I guess it's the difference between you being threatened and beaten and tortured before facing a firing squad and you speaking on your mobile while not paying attention stepping out into the road and getting suddenly mown down by a car. You can't fear something that you're completely unaware of.

    I tend to differentiate between hunting for subsistence living, personally raising a couple of animals and killing them yourself on your own land. industrial scale farming, and the hunting of animals for sport. The end result might be the same but the processes involved prior to that are worlds apart (again, personal opinion)

    Noctula - I hear ya, have done the tea and cake thing with one eye on... But mine are huge 6 and 4 yr olds not barely borned (my daughtersspeak!) you know, plonked in that bit where it says quite clearly over 5s only... Oh I dunno, maybe I'm just being a bit neurotic and the oh fuckness is really due to being stuck in a sinking caravan in the torrential rain for 4 fecking days... Cabin fever! This no tv no Internet and no elecy games thing sounded so right on when we opted for it! I should stop moaning and make another paper aeroplane to see if I can finally reach the bit down the other end of the caravan... What larks..!

    Thanks for listening guys xxx

    I understand completely - sprog is 3 and a half now but if I'm honest she was in the over-5's section from around 2. But that was because she insisted (she was insisting on going up the rigging in the local park at 18months, she likes climbing things and gets *really* pissed off if I offer to help :eek: ), much too boring in the toddler bit apparently (that's how I started going in the ball pool and on the wiggly slide, just to keep an eye on her! :p) And I get cabin fever in the house in the rain so you have my sympathy there :)

    I've actually gone a bit more soft since going veggie. :p Was at a survey the other day on a really nice farm/smallholding which had a proper mix of free-ranging ducks, turkeys, chickens, lambs, guinea fowl and pigs. Was chatting to the owner and he was warning me about the rats in the wall cavities of the building I was surveying as I was going to use a fibrescope to check inside them. I said I was ok with that as I wasn't girly enough to get freaked out by rats and at that point a musvocy duck with 4 ducklings waddled past and I said "but I'm still girly enough to go awwww at them", to which he replied "it's alright, I've been farming for years and I still go awww at them - and go mmmmm when there in my stomach".

    In the past I wouldn't have fact 6months ago I wouldn't've of...but my internal reaction was a horrified "Eek" and a sudden urge to blurt out "I'm veggie!" like some crazy hippy :eek: I didn't - but it's kind've ruined the idea that I'd probably still eat roadkill if I was to inadvertently take a pheasant out with my car or something :S

    Soft play centres. Well not so much soft play centres themselves as they serve a purpose but the peeps that just dump their barely walking toddlers into the "cage of doom" then fuck off to a table to sit there and text on their phone or read a shite "my husband killed my sister then shagged the neighbours cat and now I'm pregnant with his sons cousins child" magazine and ignore the plaintif cries of lost scared toddler being trampled under foot by a gazillion large kids, I end up taking these little things round with us that needs constant looking after when I could actually be playing with my own kids. Then when the stupid bint notices that little johnny is being picked up out the melee by someone who looks, well, like me, comes stomping over and snatches said toddler out of my grasp like I'm some sort of fucking paedo.... How about you look after your own fucking child then you fucking gormless excuse for a parent! Jeez, and I thought I was bad!


    I thank you..

    I admit to sometimes letting sprog loose and burying myself in a book/phone/cake & coffee with a "lalala, I can't hear you" attitude - but I always keep my ears peeled ;) More often than not I up sitting in the ball pool having poolball-fights with my daughter and whichever other child(ren) are being ignored and happen to want to tag along. Last time I was racing several 3yos up to the top of the climbing frame thing and down the bumpy slide (I won! Yay :p ). I'm not sure that I ever really take my daughter to our local soft play centre for her or me :D…larities-common-ancestry/

    What can be said with reasonable certainty is that we haven't evolved to eat anywhere near the quantity of meat that most people consume as part of their diet. But more importantly, since humans don't do very much at all that's "natural", I've never really understood the whole "it's natural to eat meat" argument. Well it's "natural" to run around stark bollock naked, picking fleas off your mates. So unless you're doing that.....

    The fact of that matter is, we have also evolved an ethical, compassionate, empathic faculty. So the ethical decisions that we make are just as relevant as any other evolutionary development.

    I appreciate all that, I have read into it a bit :) - and I did say that chimps didn't eat meat regularly. There are a lot of things were probably not 'supposed' to do in regards our health and wellbeing but on a scale of no-no's I'd say whether we (should) eat meat or not is down the bottom of the scale. And I mean that generally, I agree the quantities that we've habitually started consuming over the years isn't a good thing, but occasional meat eating is fine and probably a useful addition to the diet :shrug: (Except of course, a lot of the 7 billion people on the planet don't confine it to occasionally).

    I also agree with the dairy consumption argument - which is why I quit dairy long before I quit meat (although I've slipping back into the cheddar habit recently - guess I haven't evolved enough ;) ).

    Genetically and physiologically, our closest living relatives are chimpanzees. Chimpanzee's eat meat....not regularly but they hunt, catch and kill monkeys. If you've ever seen film footage of chimps hunting monkeys in the wild then it's disturbingly reminiscent of the way humans can behave in aggressive pack formation on a Saturday night in any city centre. ;) Much as we like to believe we've evolved....we're not that far removed (it's like Lord of the Flies :p )

    (Oh, and I'm veggie :) )

    I've got that stripey fatface shirt - stop stealing my taste in clothing :pp

    And could I have the first top please - the Nomads one - and the blue fatface top please? (I'd have grabbed the jeans as well, if Groove St hadn't got in first :p ) Do you still have my address?

    didnt we used to have those rare ones, in the old pond, great creasted ones or something, i think they had orange bits on them.

    Yeah, the rare ones are great crested newts (or warty newts but I think great crested sounds nicer ;) ). We don't get them in Pembrokeshire but when I was based shropshire/cheshire way I surveyed for them as much as I surveyed for bats (I preferred the newt surveys :p )

    sounds first off like a good idea, but then again, like elfqueenofrohan says and although it would cut down on battery farming etc, surely all that would mean is that farmers would sell up to developers and all our green spaces would vanish faster, I mean with farming, at least other things can live in amongst the livestock and crops, with no need to farm, people would just build on the land and increase the population, we don't live in a society that overly values nature over houses at the moment.

    Large swathes of the UK countryside - particular crop farmed areas - are green deserts. They might look like nice countryside but from an ecological/wildlife perspective they're pretty shit and if they were built over it would probably be an improvement. ;) There are urban areas with a lot more in the way of wildlife - peregrines, black redstarts, wildflowers along verges/railway embankments/central reservations, dormice with viable populations at motorway junctions. A lot of wildlife is really adaptable to urban environments. :) I'd have no major issues with appropriate urbanisation if it was done in a way that incoroporated the need for green spaces and wildlife, not just from an environmental point of view but also from a human psychological need, we *need* green spaces.

    There have been serious improvements to that end over the past 20years - it just doesn't get much attention :)


    And what would happen to all the farm animals? surely whole breeds would die out, it's not like they can happily survive in the wild any more after being domesticated. In a way farming keeps some species/breeds alive doesn't it? people are less likely to keep a cow as a pet than a dog, so where would they all go?

    Modern farming keeps a tiny proportion of domesticated livestock breeds alive. The bulk of dairy cattle in this country, for example, are a single breed (Friesian or Holstein/Friesian cross). Farmers are only really interested in those breeds that have the highest yield, farming animals is a business after all. ;) That's why there are already so many rare breeds - because they've fallen out of favour for producing lower levels of milk/eggs/wool/meat/etc - and those are kept alive by individuals who are interested, who do keep them as 'pets' and as a hobby. I can't see that changing - there will always be those who want to keep breeds alive for the joy of it.

    Also, I would imagine, that if meat farming was replaced by lab-grown meat then the changeover would be over an extended period of time and the numbers of meat-livestock would decline at a slow rate. I also don't think lab-grown meat would wipe out farmed animals completely...if anything I could see farmed meat become a 'luxury' product...real meat for the rich because we're that twisted a species :S

    Surveyed this morning for two large turbines (25m ground to hub height, about 25kW each I think) to be sited about a mile from my house as the crow flies. Two days ago surveyed for a smaller turbine (10kW 15m ground to hub height) but that one's too close to the hedgeline, even though there's already an older small turbine (5kW) in the hedgeline - that individual also had solar panels of the roofs of all the nearby farm buildings. Also have a survey tomorrow at a third site. 3 turbine surveys this week. And we're not talking wind farms, just individual turbines people are putting on their land to power farms and bring in some income.

    Subsidies run until October this year which is why I've suddenly got an influx of work (on top of recently updated guidelines relating to ecological survey requirements). ConDems cut the subsidies for solar panels at the end of last year, was meant to run until this April I think.

    Individual small turbines seem to be the thing around here - a lot of the work I've been doing is for dairy farmers who want to produce enough energy to run the milking parlours (that's a lot of electricity) and have some left to sell back to the grid. Most of them are making back the money within 4 years and the turbines last for 20-25. Having seen some of the smaller turbines on site the amount of concrete used and disturbance to the hydrogeology and immediate habitat is minimal. If those who use large quantities of electricity are able to produce their own and sell back 'green' energy to the grid then I can only see that as a good thing.

    The direct impact of the smaller turbines (smaller being less than 25m ground to hub) on birds and bats is still being researched. Even the impacts of larger turbines in this country aren't really clear because the bulk of the research relating to bird and bat strike has been associated with sites positioned along mass migration routes (in both cases) in Europe and the USA, our wildlife doesn't behave the same :p. As far as I'm aware, the death of birds has been more to do with directly striking but with bats there are mixed reasons - directly striking being one but barotrauma being a major player in recorded deaths.

    I'm withholding judgement on negative impacts on wildlife in this country until further research has been done :)