But unfortunately having a vaccination doesn't guarantee that you or a child wont get the disease/illness anyway..and in turn passing it on to vaccinated and unvaccinated children.
This is a good article although its is about the USA but as a fellow western country so still relivant...it has some interesting information taken from ...
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Quote from Little Mouse
Actually there is a wealth of scientific research on the subject . Unlike a lot of people, I don't just decide my opinions and make sweeping statements according to what 'feels' or 'seems' to be true.
And there is plenty against vaccinations too ... as I said before I didn't take the decision I did lightly as a parent.. I researched in depth before I made my mind up!!
Not to mention that as a parent I have brought up two children without vaccinations, who are fit and healthy to date.
And you said that you "don't just decide my opinions and make sweeping statements according to what 'feels' or 'seems' to be true" but you are happy to except the opinions and be influenced by your own mother on this!!
Anyway, when you have a moment read some of the stuff on here ...
There is a lot of scientific facts for you on there
Forgot to say although I am anti vaccinations, I think as adults we can handle better the vaccinations injected in our bodies if we are fit and healthy that is... not to say for one minute that I think you should have them at any age but our immune systems are usually more developed and able to cope with the poison the inject into you!! Also if you do do have them naeni then think about having homeopathy to counteract any side effects you may experience
Quote from Naeni
What about vaccinations for older children/adults?
I avoided all mine through school, now I gets a letter in the post and in a few weeks ..
on teh 25th I'm meant to be getting MMR, and the Diptheria/Tetnus/Polio
Naeni, fortunately we are still perfectly in our right not to have them if we chose not too... unfortunately in some countries they are more compulsory.
I still get reminder letters from the doctors for Torr but it doesn't mean they have to be done!!
If you chose not to have them then you don't have to have them
Quote from Little Mouse
The individual vaccines are effective (according to the majority of the research), BUT there is a far higher chance of the course of vaccinations not being completed with the single vaccinations, putting the child at huge risk.
But this is from your point of view and others who are pro-vaccinations.
I believe that their are risks running both ways!!
From my point of view, and other folk who are anti-vaccinations, we believe that the risks are far higher health wise from vaccinating our children, so we choose not to vaccinate.
Can I just ask DreadyGeordie... you say about pregnant mothers, and I assume adults in general, being covered by vaccinations but it is in my understanding that as adults we aren't covered by the vaccination programme anymore as it is something that happens in childhood and by the time you have reached an adult hood you aren't covered anymore??? so how will this prevent the spread in your opinion?
There are also arguments to say that some diseases are kept alive by the vaccination programmes because they haven't allowed natural immunity to develop, to let the disease die out naturally, due to vaccinations not covering our lifetimes!!....therefore adults will be the ones that will carry it on if they are still able to be infected... and those diseases that have been said to have died out by the vaccination programme have actually just evolved to be called something different!!
I can understand where you are coming from, from the perspective of working with children affected, as I am sure it must be very disturbing but to be honest there is a small proportion of children that aren't vaccinated in relation the large number that are... so how many children were vaccinated but still caught the disease as having vaccinations aren't 100% effective?? And how many of them have had their immune system impaired by the amount of vaccinations that are given to them?? And we know that meningitis has been connected to an impaired immune system, and this particular illness has been more prevalent in recent years since the step up in the vaccination programme...and its triple jabs etc...
Sorry just giving food for thought on the subject!!
My son was born in Luton and lived there until he was 5, without vaccinations and I couldn't think of a more dirty polluted and highly populated town to be honest. And then we lived in Hastings, Sussex until he was 6 and half which again is fairly densly populated with residents and loads of Tourists....but now we are rural in Cumbria, where yes we are more likely to get foot and mouth, so yes we are less at risk here!!
And another point made about children's lives before vaccinations in this country and then referred to the third world.... sanitation and cleanliness has improved greatly since those days in fact to the degree that we are too clean in our homes now... the third world is still at risk from bad sanitation and bad living conditions so yes their disease rates are much higher than ours in the western world.
And there are also links to vaccinations and behavioral problems in children... from what I have read.... OK I am no scientist, and do not wish to offend anyone but in recent years behavioural problems seem to have escalated...could this be due to an overload on the brain of all the vaccinations that are given in such tiny children... who knows??
Also it was mentioned that mumps and measles are rife again.... I wonder how many of those people who have got it or had it in that particular college, were vaccinated??? and how many now are not covered because the vaccination shelf life has run out and that is why it is rife again??
I believe in natural immunity and while I don't want my children to suffer from any illness I believe it is better to get naturally immune than only be immune for as long as the vaccination lasts.... don't forget as adults we are not covered by an immunization programme, and if we get thes illnesses we are more likely to be badly effected. Actually my own mother was against most of the vaccinations so I haven't really had many either... but I did have the illness which has made me immune for life. Furthermore, as pregnant mothers we do have to be careful about contracting rubella, which can deformity in our unborn children... fortunatley, when I was pregnant and tested for immunity I was OK as I had had it as a child and my immunity is now for life.
Anyway, these are just facts I am giving on the side of not vaccinating... but I will stress again it is a personal choice and is ultimately up to the parent
Quote from Hedgewitch
I very much enjoyed your post Stormy, and you are correct, parents are made to feel like they are neglecting their children if they decide not to vaccinate. I found that much out when i stood fast against giving Finn the mmr. lovely to hear an informed point of view that is nearer mine, rather than to be judged by parents who show very little interest in researching the real pros and cons of vaccinations.
Thanks Hedgewitch xxx your comments are very much appreciated
As I have written this so many times before I am going to repeat what I have said before...
When I was pregnant with Lewis who is nearly 9 years old now and still continues to thrive not having had vaccinations, I took the informed choice that he wouldn't have his vaccinations, and now we are with Torr who is 18 months, I have spent many months researching the pros and cons, when I was both pregnant with Lewis and again with Torr, and joined the informed parent which gives a quarterly newsletter on the most up-to-date news/research facts.
So our decision wasn't taken lightly.
I am a firm believer that the cons out weigh the pros then!! Lewis has only ever had one major illness chickenpox, and he sailed through that, and now he is immune for life not just for as long as the vaccine lasts.
I am all for informed choice and the choice is definitely a personal one. I would never knock anyone for choosing what they think is best for their child.... but I will say that I sadly think that propaganda has a lot to do with the choices we make. I remember around the time I took the choice not to vaccinate Lewis, that the media was trying to push the point, that if you didn't vaccinate then you were a bad parent... I certainly don't consider myself to be and am deeply offended by this. Therefore, I can see how people don't feel strong enough not to make an informed choice, especially when you a vulnerable new parent, so just go along with the majority. I am however afraid of the amount of poisons that are put in such a small body, at such an early age - rising to 25 soon, and maybe more when they bring out the chicken pox vaccine that they have been saying they will do!!
A child will gain a natural immunity from a good diet, being exposed to some illnesses, and having a being supported emotionally and physically to aid their well-being.
The thing is, in my opinion, vaccinations are way less than 100% effective anyway; we are not immune for life so as adults we are open to all illnesses which effect adults much more seriously than in childhood. Eg: I had chicken pox a few years ago and it was awful (in my throat which closed up but not in my eyes thankfully, as some adults have experienced) compared to Lewis who had it hardly at all; and from a vegan point of view, some vaccines are cultured on the bellies of calves, and tested on animals... also are the vaccines monitored for BSE?? I read that they were still using possible BSE infected vaccines even after the problems of BSE had come to light, and the other measures to deal with BSE had been put into place.
What we have to remember is that illnesses, like meningitis, are often the result of an impaired immune system, and IMO vaccines can often break a child's immune system down hence reactions etc.. I believe if you are going to vaccinate give homeopathy along side to help the child against reactions.
I would love the powers that be, to do some research on unvaccinated children to see how many have had meningitis or other serious illnesses, and to see how they get through them!!
I also believe in prevention rather than cure, and natural immunity for life. If your child is healthy emotionally, as well as physically, then they will get through any illness, especially as we have much improved living conditions and live in the Western World. Yes, I may feel different if I lived in the third world but as I have said before I probably wouldn't be privileged enough to hold the opinions I do, as my life would be more about survival. Breast feeding can also go a long way to improving immunities...and often a mother passes over her natural immunities to a child in the womb from what I read the other day!!
Anyway, at the end of the day we must do what we must do as parents, and it is a personal choice!! And please don't feel bullied or pressurised into doing anything you don't want too by any health professionals, family, friends or even us on here...the choice you make must be one you make for the benefit of your children.
Fortunately I have met someone in Stonesy who is happy to also take this decision against vaccinations, as did Lewis's real dad all those years a go :0)
Both my children continue to thrive as happy healthy vegan children with very few illnesses so far and brought up as "naturally" as possible
This is Lewis aged 8
and this is Torr aged 17 months
Hi Dibdabs xxx I have just read this thread for the first time today... I really hope you are alright.... if I can do anything to help please let me know.... I know you must be going to some dark places right now...just remember there are plenty of people here for you who care about you loads xxxx keep talking to them xxx
Much love and healing positives vibes to you xxx
Ariel view of Maberry Woods...the red lines are the boundry lines
The top right corner in the thickest part of the woodland is probably where we will build our eco house if all goes well
Great Advice...why didn't I think of that with all the B vitamins that Brewers yeast has.... bulk buy on order hehehe gunna make the whole family take them from now on for the summer ...can't hurt them anyways
Quote from Chazz
It's wonderful to see the pics, looks beautiful.
Is the stone wall on the boundary of your land?
looks like you'll have to see if Stonesy can handle Marmite n veggy broth
Yes, the dry stone wall is the boundary... it is the boundary for just one side and then it turns into a fence for most of the rest, and then just spaced posts between our land and next doors because of the trees ... I will get an aerial photo posted up from google when I get a mo
As for marmite ...I think that is a no no for Stonesy but never the less interesting as I was talking to ecomamma on the dog and bone last night and she aid her son gets bitten and she doesn't and guess what...he doesn't like yeast extract but she does...must be something in that...apparently could be something to do with the B12 and B vitamins in it???
Quote from ZZZZZ
your woody woods looks excellent there stormy. nuff rispekt. can i come and camp it up when it's all done or will you be patrolling it going OI GET ORF MOI LAND! your kid looks like a cool budding hippy dude too.
Course you can .....but watch out for the man traps they hurt hehehe we are having a gathering up there in August this year (see gathering sections or Tribal living) and many more in the future I am sure
And Lewis is definitely a hippy dude and a proud vegan you will be glad to hear, as he said to me yesterday that he was so glad he was vegan awwwww bless that child hehe (he could tell um a few things on the vegan forum hehe )
Quote from GreenFairy
I read somewhere that eating a slice of marmite on toast a day, will keep midges from biting :o) They dont like the smell I think....
Just a good reason to eat more marmite! Yum:D
Ahhh that's why I hardly got bitten and Stonesy did... I love yeast extact (marmite) and Stonesy hates it!!!
Quote from scarlettdee
aww lovely...i can picture the trees covered in snow and stonesy dressed as an elf...what a great Yule photo that would make;)
With me in my santa's outfit hehehe I was going to say sexy santa's outfit (you know the female version with short skirt) but I think I would look better in just an ordinary santa outfit with the beard and all hehehe
Thanks Fairy Girl ...you are more than welcome to come and stay there
And denhaag thank you for the advice we have been told about the avon so soft body/hand lotion ...apparently used by the forces so we have been told... wonder how they sussed that one out hehehe
Thanks Sensi and Bearface
And yes I know I am biased but Lewis is beautiful inside and out
Kai sitting in the grass :0)
Mountains in the background :0)
Sunsetting over the broad leaf trees we have on our land :0)
Stonesy doing fire stuff :0)
So at last here are some photos of the woods :0)
As I have said we have just been up there for the weekend for our first wild camp :0)
The camping area we are creating so we can get the caravan on there :0)
Star doing his thang
Another view of the camping area :0)
Our son Lewis (aged 8) :0)
Sunset at the woods
I have pics and going to sort them soon ... bit of chopping down to do ...I mean the pics hehehe
And Uma I did think of you when we were up there...but we are on such a mission to do stuff up there, that this weekend just wasn'tl ong enough...great to hear you moved into your new place ...and I am very much looking forward to connecting with you in the near future xxxx
Well, we had a great weekend at our woods ... were we mingled with nature on a wild camping trip... we were pleasantly surprised to find we have lizards up there who were seen basking on many occasion on the dry stone wall lapping up the rays of the sun... but I was even more surprised to find that yes there are midges that bite up there too not unlike the bastard ones in the highlands... I have been up there a few times now, and been around that area before and over the years, and I have never been bitten before...but oh yes they were there this weekend after all, just less teeth than their highland cousins... so thankfully not as vicious as the Highlands midges that just bite you none stop all day and night if the weather is nice... these just had a go at us for a few hours in the evening...poor Stonesy got bitten to shit, with lumps and bumps coming up all over the poor man.. but I was fortunate that they don't like me much ...must be my bad blood hehehe...so I only got bitten a few times!! apart from that it was a lovely weekend, and we met our neighbours who own the wood next door...they too seem a bit hippi mother nature types with a bit of pagan thrown in...which is all well and groovy!!
Anyway, we felled a few of the coniferous trees to clear a space for the caravan, and although feeling bad about doing that we do need to so we can create a camping area...plus these are sustainable trees and not ancient trees, and still only 8 years old so fairly small...and they will need thinning in a few years time anyway... but we burnt the wood we felled and there is now an area for the start of the permanent camping area. We also walked around the woodland, and talked about what we want to do up there and there are plenty of large stones to create a stone circle in the clearings we have up there, even if only a small one in height I mean. It is blooming big up there.. 8 acres seems a lot now. And it also felt wierd to be living and staying on land that was ours and not some bastard farmer/conservative land owner who would chuck us off Happy Daze ahead
Doh!!! I hadn't though of that :harhar: ...but as long as you eat the seeds too