Posts by veganbikerboy

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UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

    Veganism is a positive lifestyle choice. The point is - don't judge others for drawing their line in a different palce. They may well be living a "better" life than you, but in different ways.

    The 1st thing is that 'vegan' isnt a dietary choice; secondly the vast majority of vegans I know make other choices against the things you stated such as pollution etc..

    I would also i would say in many areas of human existance the lines of bad/good/better life choices arent clear (eg fossil v nuclear power many facets to the argument). that is just a simple example. it makes the drawing of an arbitary line more difficult.

    However, we know that mistreating/abusing animals and killing is wrong, we have the ability to easily reduce this in the western world, yet people make the choice not to, mostly in favour of greed. I dont understand how people can defend that position?

    Milo - its about choice. Those people have to do what they do to survive.

    As a vegan I have chosen to live my life in the most environmentally friendly, healthy and compassionate way possible. therefore I feel I have made a superior choice to those that choose not to be vegan, for whatever reason/excuse.

    Most gins, ciders and similiar stuff should be vegan (mmmm Pimms...) and most lagers aren't. Don't know any more than that...

    you'd be surprised how many ciders arent vegan. I know westons and scrumpy jack are. Magners & blackthorne arent, strongbow sometimes is, depends which bottling plant it comes from, which of course you dont know!! cant be much more help than that as i'm not a cider drinker!

    carlsberg, grolsch, becks, heineken, starpromen, stella, budweiser are all vegan

    sorry, if the tone of my last post seemed abit out of order, it was meant to be a little 'tounge in cheek'.

    I still stick by my last statement, and infact you confirmed what i meant by talking about a 'vegan diet'.

    I dont wish to preach, as I am sure you aware veganism is a way of life, not a diet.

    Hopefully, in my previous posts I had taken the time to explain the reasons why I avoid wool & honey, as they are issues that people contemplating veganism often request information about, I am happy to oblige. I have also clearly stated that anything anybody can do to move closer to a vegan lifestyle i will, and do, support.

    I must admit i was surprised by your post about agreeing the consumption of animals, as you say, that is your right to believe that. I still think that if you hold those sentiments you are unlikely to become a 'vegan' in the true sense of the definition. That is no slight on you, it is just my opinion.

    I would like to say that people being passionate about vegansim isnt as bad as the 'vegetarians that eat fish & chicken' syndrome for giving veggies/vegans a bad name.

    And as i said before, I hope the debate doesnt discourage you in anyway from pursuing a vegan lifestyle.

    If i were to buy ethical wool then discomfort to the animal would be theoretically you wouldn't get people being uncaring and hurting the sheep in the shearing process. I guess you would have to look into whever you can actually buy ethical wool where that is the case...but that would have to be something that i would have to look into. But in a theoretical perfect ideal...where wool was produced without harming the animal...then i don't agree with all this exploitation stuff. Other animals use other animals for there own is animal cruelty i have the problem with...

    As you said yourself, in a perfect world! These places, even ethical ones, are run as a business, money will always comprimise conditions/welfare. Shearing a sheep is not a pleasant experience for them. I have already mentioned the wider impact of farming animals.

    Your comparison to other animals is true in a sense, except that what seperates us from other animals is choice, conscience and compassion. We have the choice not to inflict this damage to other creatures and the environment. There are more env. friendly and equally suitable materials that can be used, so why choose wool?

    Just wanted to point out that sheep need to be sheared. They have been bred so much for their wool that leaving them without shearing them would be even worse for them.

    Is that true? I have read many times that sheep can regulate their own coats. For many years they had us believe that docking was necessary, you often see sheep with tales these days. The tails needed to be docked because the unnatural supplements/food source caused problems at the rear end! meaning fly strike was possible because they had muck on their back ends and tails! give 'em a natural diet, the tails can stay!

    it may be true of the breed of sheep bred/farmed for wool. But if no one bought wool that inbred 'quality' would disappear.

    Kayia - I hope peoples arguments havent put you off making the move towards veganism, however far you take it. I think 'we' need to stop seeing animals as a comodity, put here for our (ab)use. I do not want a single penny i earn supporting the unnecessary use of animals in anyway. Hence I am vegan.

    PS. being vegan is actually REALLY easy these days.

    I suppose its a matter of opinion, there are many other species that suffer with the presence of farmed animals. During the Foot & Mouth outbreak a few years ago our countryside saw a resurgence of many wild flowers and the insects they encourage, particularly butterflies.

    Just had a quick read through this thread and found people's contribution very interesting. I'd like to add my two penny's worth if I may.

    I have been vegan for nearly 11yrs and went straight from omni - vegan (including wool & honey). For me, it was a case of realising we do not need to farm animals to survive, and yes bees are 'farmed' too.

    I do realise that people think differently to that, and of course, anything you do that brings you closer to a vegan diet will benefit your health, the environment and the animals so I am certainly not going to critisice you for being 'mostly' vegan.

    I know getting locally sourced ethical honey is possible, but there is honey hidden in so many products that do not fit that category, so are you going to exclude those products from you diet? or not?

    I am not sure about wool, in terms of locally sourced ethical wool. I know traditional wool can involve extensive use of chemicals and vast quantities of water, which obviously isnt good. There are wider issues though in terms of the effect on the environment of farming sheep, the waste (manure & urine) can be toxic to water coarses, their grazing has caused massive changes to the landscape and biodiversity of huge areas. And further to this they are viewed as an economic asset not a living breathing mammal, therefore welfare is an ongoing concern. IMO is it really 'good' to support the farming of sheep?

    There is no reason that you 'need' wool or honey, so why is there a compulsion to use these products? habit? tradition? convienience?