I thought as much. Figures
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I think what the BNP do try and stand for is that Uk born citizens rights matter too. Under Labour Government, they are rolling out the red carpet to immigrants whilst leaving indiginous people to help themselves. I don't think anyone is against immigration, I think it is just the way in which the Government deal with both immigrants and indigionous people that is causing hostilities toward immigrants. It is fair to say immigrants do contribute to our economy. But in a small way. As many come and then they claim benefits. This is the truth, the reality and has no falsity.
Not all foreigners come to Britain with jobs handed to them at the border. And they like us who may be unemployed need to survive somehow.
Immigrants do need the basic of human rights, but I am appauled that this Government consider their human rights greater than indigionous people.
THE BNP are also being voted for by increasing people who want to see changes. They can't all be wrong, can they?
Quote from Atomik
Erm... you mean apart from the three general elections that they went on to win?
Well, of course they won a few elections.
The point is, if Margerat Thatcher did some of the things that Labour have done in the last eight years, there is no way they would have won those, as you say rightly, three general elections.
Do you support Labour by any chance?
Labour have lost the Glasgow East elections. Well, it was expected, and it does seem like Labour's days are numbered. It could be a Tory prime minister next and a government. we already have a Tory mayor as the people have spoken, it is simply this: many have had enough of the far right. It is time for change and Tory seems to fit the bill. Okey so they made mistakes thirty years ago. After the Falklands, we didn't give them another chance. That was it. Yet Labour for so long have invaded Iraq, continuously make mistakes, turn our country into a Police state and yet they keep getting another chance in Parliament. I think they should consider themselves lucky, but I think now that many people are genuinely seeking an alternative to the Labour party.
Quote from PlutoPete
What planet are you on, do you know the difference between right and left?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right I am modest right okey. It is probably the sign of the times that such ultra liberalists would find sanctuary here.
Enjoy your politically correct world.:plod::
It was nice having these fierce debates with you people, but I feel this forum is too far right, autocratic and politically correct for my taste. Thanks, but, Gule Gule.:waves:
Quote from Atomik
Oh... and can we have an explanation for why your profile originally said "gay" please (which would certainly fit with the "queen" in your username), or I am gonna end up suspecting you of trolling.
It was a simple visual error on my part.
Sorry for any confusion.
Additional: I know what people are saying. Gay people have the right not to be discriminated against. At the same time, it is hard to go against religious convictions and at the same time try and defend yourself against allegations that suggest I or anyone in a similar situation is anti-gay. Sexuality is a complex issue. And churches these days, despite not marrying couples, will still accept gay people into their church. And to prove how supportive the church are to anyone, they even visit prisons where they are faced with rapists, serial killers etc. And one verse (Excuse me for quoting bible but as a source only), it says that we should not judge one another. And we should love each other as we love ourselves. And to be quick on this one because I am at the end of my ideas on how to convince people on how I am not the
that many keep banging on with. But I understand that there is a greater need for awareness in our community, but at the same time religious traditions and codes of practise must be upheld.
Exactly how stupid are you? Gays dont even have EQUALITY let alone supremacy
The post I was referring to indicated that gay rights were more valuable than any other including religious people etc. In this day and age, gay people have equality. (And incidentally the post I referred to seemed be of supremecism lex) We have Gay pride day in London and we have gay bars, clubs and communities in London. They are here to stay. They are subject to abuse by low minded people. Now I don't support gay marriage. But that doesn't mean to say that I am Anti-gay. I respect gay people, not because they are gay but because they are people who have the same rights to equality as non gays. Now, when it comes to religion, there are practises that have become apart of church life for a long long time. I fear that such refusals by christians to marry gay couples will simply mean that we get tarred yet again in the same brush as someone who is anti gay. Now when it comes to the church practises, we need to preserve traditions and not twist things in order to suit the far right.
Your point about gays respecting others - how are they not? Should a 1930s african-american give that level of respect to the right of a ku klux klansman to hang him from a tree? IE, does your definition of 'respect' mean 'let people treat them like they arent equal' ?
This was in the 1930's. There are no ku Kux Klan hanging gay people in Britain or indeed America today.
if so, fuck YOU
No comment. Such abusive language only reflects badly on you.You may not care, but well, figure it out.
Please respond to my point about your comparison to fascism/stalinism before attempting further trollish diversions
[/quote]When I referred to a Stalin soviet union, I was saying that in todays britain, we are overrulled by Political correctness and far right liberal views which as result curb our freedom.
Can you also stop Back to topic:
In short, I respect anyone of any religion, race, gender and sexual orientation.But like I said, Respect works both ways. And even the church respects those who are gay. But due to religious convictions, will NOT marry them. But will offer aid and support and peace when they need it. There is no sign on the church door saying, "No Gays". You are as much welcome in the church as anyone else.
Additional: At the same time, gay people need to respect others beliefs too. And understand that not everyone is of same sexual orientation. This doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't fit a gay person is anti gay. No, but there is a matter of the church too. And sadly, though the church is in need of modernisation. I would feel it a great travesty if such traditions and cultural heritages were not preserved but instead, erased altogether to suit the far right liberals. IN short, make what you will, but before anyone says I hate gays, then they are wrong.
[B]how their need for 'equality' is greater than yours by any reasonable definition dueQuote
to the far higher barriers against their society??
In other words, you are saying, Gay supremacy and fuck everyone else.
You know what, it works both ways, if the gay community want respect, they should respect others too. I respect gay people even if I myself am not gay.
Quote from Paul
So what about someone who has paid loads of tax and then makes a decision that they no longer want to work? Should they not be entitled to claim back what they have paid into?
If you make a decision not to work, even if you paid tax, you would need to have a good reason why you left. *If it was due to suffering untold amount of abuse or you were being discriminated against or if you had to look after someone, then of course you would be entitled to benefits. It is those who wish to claim benefits and just sit about all day because they just don't want to work full stop. If you were sacked, dismissed from your job, you are entitled to benefits.
1) I don't agree with benefit cheats or those simply getting money by making themselves unemployed without good reasons*See here)_
2)There are millions on benefits who are perfectly entitled, including myself. I have no contentions there, nor do I have those who had been forced to resign due to being discriminated or harrassed or bullied etc. Everyone has the right to work in an environment free from abuse (Although you will expect some sometimes as jobs go, but you will know what I mean)
Training doesn't nessarcerrily mean sitting in a classroom and doing examinations. YOu can learn skills on a practical level, even with menial jobs. You can't expect the government to put us claimants with amazing job placements ie working in Hilton or a shofa. But you see, there needs to be reforms, to make the system fairer and to give those like me a fighting chance of getting back into work.
There is an old saying which I think many of us will agree with. When you are in a job (Paid or not), it is quite often easier to get into another one. If the employer sees you are doing something constructive....
Quote from Digitalpiracy
Flamboyant Queen - why have you completely ignored my point about suicide rates in the gay community and how their need for 'equality' is greater than yours by any reasonable definition due to the far higher barriers against their society??
Also, you don't fit my definition of a liberal. Not by any means.
Everyone regardless is entitled to equality. Sorry I didn't respond on suicide rates in the gay community. Any death is tragic. I offer my condolences.
Perhaps you are right, I am not an ultra extreme liberal. Nor will I ever be. I do support liberal views, but when it gets extreme to the point of a police state policy, I have to take a stand, I have to defend those who are the greater victims, quite often those with religious beliefs. For millenia, they have been persecuted. What is happening today, could mirror a Stalin/Hitler era. And this Country is turning into a Soviet union too:(
When I said layabouts I didn't mean those genuinely claiming benefits. Nor did I class lone parents and carers as layabouts. Infact I was saying that there IS an increase of people claiming who are not always genuine. They just prefer to live off the state. With such reforms, this may crack down on those who simply don't want to earn a living. In other words, put off those who simply claim to get money. There are those who are genuine need of social security. I think it is right and fair. Under current legislation, the system isn't quite fair. With well thought out reforms, it can benefit those who are in need.
I don't appreciate my words being twisted. I am not dubbing everyone who claims benefit as a layabout. But there are millions of layabouts and sadly those who are genuine, often get tarred in the same brush.
With reforms to make it a condition for a giro. For the younger claimants this could be better than simply looking for work and signing on at the jobcentre. With possible references and training hands on, it will improve our chances of getting a job. I too am unemployed and have been for many years. To even suggest I was putting those genuine down, are very wrong indeed. But those who claim but have no intention to change their situation due to pure refusal, well how can anyone justify exploitation?
Finally, There is need for reforms. Current New Deal placements are often dole places in which you are treated like second class citizens. People come out with no jobs and quite often are no nearer to getting one either due to the neglect and the lack of training. It isn't just about looking for work, it is about bettering your chances through skill and possible work placements. But, I am concerned about those on incapacity benefit. Due to proposals this will be scrapped. When there are genuine claimants, it is their welfare that counts.
Originally, this proposal was a Tory idea.
Oh and finally....
There are more people on long term benefit due to the government who have not invested fully to agencies that could stand people a chance of getting qualified, trained and job ready.
WIth new proposals, I think even those who cry at the idea of a little toil and labour, though I don't see stacking shelves in OXfam, BIG TIME!, it may in the long run make it fairer. Giving benefits to those who genuinely need help and who want to get into a job asap.
Rubbish. Your prejudice is a generalisation. Furthermore, benefits are a pittance. Nobody is better off on single-person JSA these days. It's a shit level of living that few would choose.
Rubbish. As a jobseeker, I pay 26.80 a fortnight toward rent. I pay 5.50 a fortnight for tv licence, I pay about fifteen pounds a month electric. I can afford cds and even a daytrip return to Brighton, and get two weeks unmodest shopping. If I was working, I would be paying 800 rent, 11 pounds month direct debit tv licence, fifteen pounds month electric. Would be worse off with ten pence abolition rate. Okey I would have a bit more,but lest not forget council tax.
I hope the new proposals get through but are carefully ordered so that both can benefit. It is a small price to pay. No matter how degrading a job, they are not saying, "lick my shoe". If you want fancy work, all I can say is, any young person or person who wants to do something they like, can train for it. It won't fall on your plate. It will take potentially years to finally get that dream job. The greatest people in history often started at the very bottom. But with a little tolerance and little whinging about how awful the job is, they finally got their break.
Characterising all those on benefits as "layabouts" suggests that your prejudice is leading your reasoning.
There are more and more young people and people on benefits than ever before. One of the reasons is: You are now better off on benefits. ON JSA, you often get entitlement to council tax relief and rent rebate. In an ever expensive society, benefits is desirable. My prejudice can be justified as there are more claimants who simply want to live off benefits.
Where is your evidence to support this?
I admit I have no evidence, but there is always a chance if there are key reforms made to the way benefits are distributed.
Bollocks. I went straight from long-term unemployment to full-time shift work, starting as early as 7am. I was never late for work once and didn't have the slightest trouble adapting to the routine.
You may have found it easy, but there are many who find it a shock to go from doing little all week to suddenly working forty hours a week.Quite often from early morning and having to commute long distance in some cases. So no, not BOLLOCKS, as you starkly put it.
As before, proof is in the puddin'. There are much needed reforms to the benefit system and a reform could benefit both parties. We have labour government. Although I don't back all their policies, there are going to be some that I agree with. Reforming benefits system could save tax payers millions. If you work, you pay tax. Surely you would want less tax to pay and with the ten pence tax rate abolished, surely you would hopefully back some critical reforms.
Get over yourself! So because you have done a little bit of gardening you think that it is ok for this government to force people into jobs they may not want to do... Do you also agree that drug addicts should get their benefits stopped... As I said in an earlier post if people were given more opportunity to re educate (skills as well as academically) themselves in a way that interests them... like you and I have done... and stopped forcing people into justifying themselves while they are claiming benefits then more people would want to find work...
It is only right that those able to work should work. Why should layabouts get money for nothing? I too feel guilty for doing nothing, but yet getting money for nothing. Drug addicts need help and there are places they can go. As I have never had a drugs problem, I don't know the extent of support agencies, but they are there. There is a good proverb, "Teach man and he will yet be wiser". Training and mandatory volunteer work will ensure people will be trained, job ready and able then to hold down a real paid job. when you are unemployed for a long time, it is very hard to adjust to a normal working day, ie getting up early, coming home late etc etc. As a result, many find benefits more alluring.
[Removed - not an immigration thread. Last warning.]Quote
Also using language as you have like "indigenous people" etc does make you come across as a bit of a bigot! And do you really think that mass immigration had anything to do with people finding it hard to find jobs... you need to look at the government as the scapegoat for that... Jobs are usually quite hard to find when the economy is a bit dodgy... Or if your level of education is not too good... or if you are addicted to drugs booze...
You don't know me so how dare you make the assumption that I am addicted to drugs, booze etc. And also I am not a bigot. Unless you really know what you are talking about, say nothing.
Also you don't like my use of smileys.. well all I can say is...
Obviously not you.
Quote from Atomik
The key element here being that your work was voluntary and not compulsory, and you chose to do something that you presumably wanted to do. Hence if the government encouraged people to do voluntary work of their choice, the scheme would be far more productive. The carrot always works better than the stick.
Well, not allways. There were many tasks which I just didn't want to do. Like clearing out house gardens of rubbish, so that the council wouldn't fine them or send them to prison. Getting rid of weeds like nettles, hogweed and Japanese knotweed. But I still did it. I think if the Government imposed mandatory condition that you did voluntary work in order to get your JSA, there would be a stark choice, hense, people would do the jobs, even if they didn't put that much into it. A working nation is a prosperous nation. For too long, many who claim benefits are often neglected, even criticised for not getting a job. It isn't just about looking for work, it is also about training young people and getting them job ready. Many New Deal courses I went to, were appauling. The staff that ran the places had terrible attitudes and they just expected you to sit at a computer for six hours in silence. And with out of date newspapers and limited phone access, no wonder we are relying on immigrants to keep the wheels of Britain turning. A credit to Immigrants, but however, maybe now is the time to send many back, to close the doors and to get the British layabouts into production mode. I admit I am lazy at times, I mean it is so tempting to have a lie in. So tempting not to go to the jobcentre every day.
But if the jobcentre had these new plans in force, there will be many more back into work. But as they say, proof is in the puddin'
Quote from tekno
Well if these shitty jobs are so character building why have you not got a job then..? And then you may be in a position to whine about immigrants getting all of the jobs...
So far I have seen you post quite anti gay... Nationalistic Pro Conservative views... on this site... You do know this is a hippy site don't you?
Immigrants are quite often exploited. The Government have only just got these proposals together. And yes, secretly (Not revealing to Jobcentre), I worked a year with a volunteering organisation in landscape design, gardening. Tackling knotweed is labour intensive, but I also did other tough duties, and I didn't get paid! And I am now bettering my chances of getting a job, with a carpentry course. I am not anti-gay, that is just a load of baloney. Whining? No! Many immigrants are underpaid, we have had uncontrolled immigration for years, and getting a job, even in these times isn't easy. As for your smilies....
Considering many gay people refer to themselves as "queer", that seems a strange statement to make.
Who exactly is being anti-semetic
There is ever increasing hostility and persecution of Jews, Christians and other religious groups who cannot perform certain things like Gay partnerships etc. It goes against their faith, and because they don't renounce their faith, they are branded "Fanatics", "Weirdos".
There must surely be room for negotiation,but it seems that everyone regardless of religious belief must give in to more and more of the ultra liberal laws that are breaking the church apart and is giving out a message that Britain is anti-semetic. As though it is wrong to be traditional. With the increase of liberalists and even Futurists. One can only wonder what tomorrow will bring./
Having said that, I do support some liberal views, but when it conflicts with religious beliefs, I must make a stand. I mean if the ultraist liberals got their way, where would it stop? And would we end up persecuting all religious people? It is bad enough that we have islamaphobia. Lets not slip back to the reign of Stalin/Hitler in which the Jews were persecuted and Christians were too.
Atomik]So the sensible thing would be instead of a government scheme where people are expected to undertake menial work for their giro, how abouts expecting people to undertake voluntary work with a registered charity of their choice? Or to enrol in college? That would be far more productive and fair.
If the rules were more relaxed or if claimants were encouraged to do voluntary work or enrol at college. Could be more productive and fair.
You'll be doing some shitty-ass work that the government has forced you into. You'll feel more socially alienated than ever.
Well of course you won't be working for the Hilton or getting job in Buckingham palace as a Crown Polisher. But any work is good, even if it is shitty-assed. It is character building and keeps your mind occupied. Instead of this government giving tough labouring jobs to immigrants, perhaps it is time the indiginous people got their hands dirty. Bucking barley or harvesting cabbage is something I would like to do. And you get paid above ;)And if a society is a working Nation, who needs the EU when we can be a self sufficient Country! [/B]
Quote from spacecactus
Your statment fuels the persecution of gay/lesbians/trans/queer people, they give it currency and acceptance!
There is nothing good or acceptable in persecution of Gays/lesbians. Your term "Queer people", is discriminatory, so your point?
It seems like it isn't acceptable to persecute Gays, but it is okey to be anti-semetic . Hypocrisy or what:S
For many years, many who have claimed benefits have been left to themselves. They coast through life without any self esteem or confidence, they jobsearch occasionally, then sign on each fortnight and suggest to the apathetic job advisor that they have broken bone and blood vessel for work. And nowadays, there is high employment. There are organisations...apparently. I can relate to this myself as I too make up a story. Under current rules, a claimant must be available for work. The current attitude is you either look for work and are available for work, and if you are not, terminated. Even if you are doing some volunteer work or are studying at college, the rules are black and white, severe and non flexible.
Under new proposals, getting us unemployed into some kind of work, will be a much needed breath of fresh air. And when you get your benefits, you will feel worthy of it, because you have worked for it.
But this could cause problems. Many would prefer this way of earning a living rather than getting pay from an employer. Also those who are incapacity, will find it hard to lift things with a broken back. And it may contravene Doctors advise. It would be tough being genuinely incapacitated. You would have to do something and if you can't, you could literally starve to death and stack up debt and then find yourself homeless.
It is early days, and I see many problems with the proposals, but if properly thought out and is fair, it could be successful.
Quote from julianthegypsy
Don't be stupid, you weren't around in the tory years, they were utter shite in every way- oh and the cops used to make it up as they went along too. Ever heard of the inter city firm? Football hooligans who beat people up at random and left them on the floor with knife wounds and god knows what else and a calling card. Tories bleat about crime cos it makes them sound like the party of law and order. It's utter bullshit.
No, I am not being stupid. Labour government suck. And they seem to be worse than Tory. I may not have been old enough to experience tory, but my mother did and that has greatly influenced me. Tories don't bleat about crime to make themselves look good. They do it because Labour won't and they won't accept the sheer scale of the current knife epidemic, unless we have mass demos and marches. Even then, I doubt Gordon Brown really understands what it is like living on a rundown state. I
would just love it if Gordon brown spent one week on an estate. He is good at talking, but when it comes to action, Labour fail to deliver.Soundbytes and dialogue is what many can expect from this Government.
However, there are areas in which Labour are good and I think there are good reasons why we should be in the EU. One being, we get the money to fund training projects and clubs for young people, to improve their chances of employment and to give them a place to hang out and a purpose in life.
Tory and Labour are as bad as each other. But for once, maybe the shift in political preference may be swaying more to the Tories. And don't forget London has a Tory Mayor. The people has spoken.
Additional: Living near Crystal Palace and in the general area around Southeast London, I do know what I am saying when I state that I am now more afraid of walking the streets at night. Wasn't always the case, as I used to do so in 2002-03. But in the last few years, knife crime is beyond what we as a society are used to. In the words of parents of victims- enough is enough.
Quote from moyne
He is actually ok and kicking, but he had just finished work was on his way home, and not only was he mugged but then he was stabbed... Why has that become the answer to every thing in the eyes of todays youths. Yes you can kill with out the aid of a blade or gun, but why would you want too..?
Your friend was lucky. Crystal Palace for me is one place I have barely explored. Apart from the main park where you can see a clear view of suburbia.
I have a personal rule, don't go out at night unless you really have to. I was one who would wander about the streets of Lewisham just wandering. I got into a few scraps, got mugged, got hustled and had been threatened with shocking violence. It is tempting at times to go wandering around, sometimes it is just too hot to stay indoors, especially in the summer. In 2002 and 2003, I would wander around the streets after dark. Nowadays I would be too scared. Sadly the state we are living in. A kid just got stabbed yards from his home. It just shows that there seems to be no end in sight for these spate of stabbings. What is worse, we have Labour government in charge of making our streets safer.
Quote from dabaDan
I think this whole knife crime in the papers EVERYDAY saga is just a way to put more fear into the country to slowly push in a complete police state . kids growing up on viloent tv and movies really doesn't help at all, if anything it inducts them into very negative mindstates.
I think it's everyones duty to help sort this problem out especially the extremely wealthy as they have the £ to build schemes to help these people in poor situations who end up involved in violent crime. So they can build futures where there can earn £ and not feel the need to escape there bleak reality by living life like it's a film to detatch themselves from their reality , where they see the wealthy on tv and films and know thats never gonna be them so its rubbed in there faces making them depressed and frustrated then selling drugs can become a good £ making option rather than being a bin man .
also yes it is parents fault because there are alot of people out there who really shouldn't have kids as there have a serious lack of morals and very bad attitudes that get passed onto their kids wich i think inturn become worse that the parents and the cycle just keeps repeating its self like that.
just my opinion.
I have to disagree somewhat. The papers are not making this up nor are they causing mass hysteria by constant news of the same thing. And I say this because what they are reporting is real and accurate. Yesterday another kid was murdered by the hands of feral youths. The parents are to blame because they are the parents and should take responsibility for their kids whereabouts etc. And not to try and demonise parents as it is clear the government could do more to help parents and lone parents. But the facts still stay the same. This country is turning into the killing fields. We are losing our kids to knife crime and it is now on epidemic proportions. And incidently, society has turned into a ruthless mob as two police officers were beaten up by a mob as a result of a police man asking a teenager to pick up her rubbish. This was in Croydon.
And as the killings continue, I wouldn't be surprised if five more kids were killed by the end of next week.
Quote from Atomik
I think they're being branded as fanatics for refusing to perform their jobs on the basis of their beliefs. If they quietly sought alternative employment - as most people would do if their ethics clashed with their job description - then I imagine the whole thing would have passed without comment.
But no. When they started their jobs, the government had not brought in these new laws. Suddenly they find themselves being expected to renounce their faith in order to suit the preference of the liberals who hark on and on about how we live in the 21st century and society is more equal or something. Anyone who cannot go against their faith, are branded fanatics and weirdos and are discriminated against. Any form of discrimination is unacceptable, but somehow religious persecution seems to okey and on here seems somewhat endorsed by the very people who should be protecting users from discrimination, racism and bullying etc. :down:
Probably get kicked off of discussion for having the opposite point of view.
I think that gay people should be afforded the same human rights as anyone else. But, christians should not be persecuted for their beliefs. And should not be branded "fanatics" or "Wierdos", when they cannot under their faith marry gay couple. It is a sad thing today, how Britain is becoming ultra liberal, at the cost of our religious freedom, and thus the end result becomes a decadent society. If you look at Britain News, you will see the living proof. I am not saying, lets persecute gay people.
And those who are not ultra liberal, will simply be forced to live in the sewers and turn to crime for something to eat. Shia law may be wiped out of the ultra liberal revolution as it sticks firmly traditional. perhaps I was incorrect about shia law coming into play. It may seem like utopia, but utopia only for the ultra liberals, but not for the rest.