Vegan vs Meateater

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  • If one had a partner who tried to stop you being you then maybe best to find another partner !!

    If you decided to change your diet and viewpoint because your partners ideals made more sense then that would be based on logic and nothing to do with love !!

    A good few years back when I was living with Rachel ( Rashel phonetically ) I was a veggie but out of love and respect for her choices I never pushed my ideals on her and a couple of times a week I would cook her a meat dinner as who am I to force my ideals upon someone else !

    Love and respect is a two way street and if it is not then the relationship is doomed from the start :-o

  • If someone wants to eat a vegan diet - that's fine! If someone wants to be a vegetarian, pescatarian, ominvore or carnivore, then that's fine too!! To each, their own choices!

    When I first met my ex partner he just presumed I was a vegetarian and mirrored this behaviour. He made such a statement about his "ethical" choices. I told him that whilst I respected and understood his choices, I did actually eat meat.

    I explained where my meat came from and the conditions the grass and natural pasture reared animals lived...and how I would continue eating meat.. Suddenly he felt he had permission to reveal his inner carnivore!!! Hmmm!!

    To each , their own. I wouldn't impose my choices on a person and wouldn't expect them to impose their lifestyle choices on me.

    But now my life is so simple... all present and future partners in my life must have four legs and a tail.. Love and respect is a given .:):):)<3

  • No, because it's not just about diet.

    If someone asked me to start consuming animal products, it would be like them asking me to become racist or take up killing people -- it's too embedded into my moral viewpoint to be able to change.

    Likewise, I would be unlikely to date someone if they didn't have matching ethics in all kinds of other areas -- I don't discount it completely, but people don't like to change when pressured, so I've learned to be a bit more selective in my choices before investing my energy.

    As a point of comparison, my politics are somewhat left of centre, and, while I can understand some opposing views, I wouldn't want to date anyone who was a member of a far right organisation either.

  • I think that on personal matters like diet, politics, religion or spiritual ideas or lack of them, and general tolerance levels, you've got to be in the same ball-park, even if you choose to differ by degrees.

    Mistakes are sometimes made by teaming up with somebody who you think you can change their ideas over time; thing is, man, they are probably thinking same about you!

  • Yeah I get that but sometimes the lines are blurred, eg vegetarian to vegan?, vegan to vegetarian and of course many other diets, I've been vegetarian, meateater at the moment but can see the vegan diet as possible, if all other points of view are in the same ball park then surely the diet change is possible?

  • I don't really figure that so far as diet is concerned, meat-eating and veganism is in the same ball-park.

    I think perhaps vegetarianism and veganism might be, because they both have links to animal sympathies and to healthy diet. So a vegan or a vegetarian might team up, although the vegan might be encouraging the vegetarian to becoming vegan, and maybe the vegetarian would be wanting or needing encouragement to seriously consider becoming vegan.

    It's almost the same with religion: if your religion is pretty close to someone else's, and you are both religious sort of people, you can tolerate small differences. But if the divide is great, it can only last for so long before a split occurs.

    True story: A pagan gal we know, somehow - probably physical attraction? - got married to a mormon. I kid you not. They had a couple of children together. She would go to her ceremonies, he would go to his. She considered him walking a wasted path, but hoped to change him eventually. He hoped to bring her wild pagan soul to his god. She would criticise his uptightness. He would criticise her images and her little pagan altar, which filled him with horror (he said). Sadly, but perhaps for the best, after a few years they divorced. Then came the tug-of-war for the kids...

    At the time I was vegetarian, I would have taken up with a vegetarian girl, had one such came along, and probably even a vegan, other things being equal. But I gradually got back to fish and then meat-eating, so the net got cast a bit wider....:D

    But the gal I eventually teamed up with had a lot of other things in common too, like logical thinking, independence, laid-back fairly quiet personality, dislike and suspicion of organised religions, similar left-of-centre politics, etc.

    I guess I was lucky in some ways....:thumbup:

  • That's an interesting one, Boris. But I think you are right, if other things are equal.

    Though it might be difficult if one was vegetarian and already had animal sympathies and aimed eventually to become vegan for these reasons.

    If those reasons were more in the direction of fitness and/or New Age trendiness, then Descensus carne facilis, I'm afraid. Especially if he/she was good-looking.....:reddevil:

  • Love is a very powerful emotion Keith, it makes us do very radical things and not always for the worse?, I think meateater to vegetarian would be a good compromise for a vegan partner who would not budge with their diet ?

  • I believe in "be what you are, we all do our thing" but I'm a meat lover

    I'll try a veg dish if I think I'll eat it, but well you understand.

    Ah yes but if you met a hot hippie and fell instantly in love with her would you be prepared to make some diet changes?, all relationships are a compromise man

  • Love is a very powerful emotion Keith, it makes us do very radical things and not always for the worse?, I think meateater to vegetarian would be a good compromise for a vegan partner who would not budge with their diet ?

    Yes, it's made me do odd things at times, looking back....:D

    I can understand your compromise, from meat to vegetarian for a vegan partner. But would he/she be satisfied in the long run? I think they'd be urging you to become vegan after awhile.....:/

    But if you are already headed that way, that's okay.

    If you aren't, it might be a contentious haul...

  • But would he/she be satisfied in the long run? I think they'd be urging you to become vegan after awhile.....:/

    But if you are already headed that way, that's okay.

    If you aren't, it might be a contentious haul...

    Well speaking for myself, if I became a vegetarian for a woman then she could make some compromises too!!

  • C'mon, Boris, you know what we blokes have to put up with:shrug:

    You remember King Arthur's riddle....:whistle:

    It might depend on her veganic motivation, of course.

    If it's animal sympathy based, expect moral :angel: lessons on the correctness of veganism every time you reach for that delicious block of handcrafted organic mature cheddar on the shop shelf...:D.

    If it's more health & fitness based* then she might be more willing to compromise, I think.

    * I had a vegan mate at one time who used to jog around the nearby park with me, about 3 kilometres. He always outran me at the finish, the bar steward! He was a vegan for mostly fitness reasons, and trained well. One day I said to him: "That fast finish, do think that's because you're vegan?"

    "No," He said, "That's because I'm about ten years younger than you are!":D

  • In a world where 30% of all food produced ends up in landfill, dietary choice can be a very emotive subject. I see the Dietary Choices / Lifestyle debate as choices the luxury of having a FIRST WORLD PROBLEM.... give or take a Buddhist monastery or two in deepest Tibet of course.. Our ancestors hunted, gathered, fished and farmed because they had to. They ate what was local and seasonal.

    Thank The Goddess that we are all different and not all making the same choices. A world full of nowt but Carnivores would be disastrous..... and a world full of nowt but vegans would be equally disastrous.

    We can all see the carnivore model... But the vegan model is equally damaging to the environment. A world with the eradication of domesticated poultry, cattle, goats, pigs, sheep etc would have an adverse environmental impact. Our grasslands would be unable to regenerate. Many wild flowers and species in upland areas would become extinct. More chemicals would need to be used on agricultural land as there would be no animal manure. And that's just the start. Read about some of the rewilding projects in Scotland and the North of England. Animals are essential to the ecosystem.

    What is needed is common sense and joined up thinking. When talking of "morals" that generally suggests superiority in thought over those lesser beings who chose to eat meat. Instead I will use the word "ethics". We all have our own ethical stance.

    What is really needed is a society where food is valued not just to stuff our bellies, but for nutritional properties. Where the five decade period of intense farming is assigned to the annals of history. And everyone has an awareness of food production.

    I rear animals. The chickens lay eggs and the fertilised eggs go on to hatch 50% boys.

    Do I have respect for the lives of the boy chickens?? YES!! Do I rear them with care and respect?? Yes!! Will I or others eventually eat the boy chickens?? YES!!

    Their lives would not ever have come in to being if they were not to be used as a valuable food. Their shit is valuable fertiliser for the soil,,,, they even prepare the soil for veg planting. An tonight they are happy little chicks, well fed and now safely tucked away in their house until morning,,, to save them from the badgers.... who have plenty of earth worms to eat. Balance... Balance... Balance...

    OK,,, I ramble on a bit.... but what I am saying is as a society we need to think more deeply. And re the OP,,, if a potential partner is so closed thinking ,, so blinkered that they only see their own perspective,,,, then who really wants to be with a person like that?? Vive la difference!!

  • Quite right, traditionally people ate what grew and lived around them in their local environment.

    So it follows that this is a more 'natural' way of life than importing special foods from far away. These might be nice as a treat now and then, but decidedly strange to consume as the greater part of one's diet, often at considerable environmental cost to the lands they were grown in.

    As far as the ethics or morals of any particular diet is concerned, I have met quite a number who assume their own particular diet is morally superior to that of other people, in the way a thief considers himself to be morally superior to a murderer, and a fraud considers himself to be morally superior to them both.

    So looking at this traditional type of diet, we see there are many variations.

    There are lands where it is only natural to be mostly a carnivore; lands where the climate is so cold that nothing much grows, and one has to hunt for animal food to survive.

    There are other kinder lands like our own, where one can have much more variety of local food, both animal and vegetable, and where the diet is generally omnivorous, but where a balanced vegetarian diet is possible.

    Warmer climates than our own can produce a wealth of both animal and vegetable foods, and although many people would be omnivores, it is here that the vegan would find it possible to live on what grew or could be grown naturally in the locality.

    Going beyond, there are hot zones where an even greater variety of animal and vegetable foods are present, and although again we find many people are omnivores, or vegetarians, or vegans, if one is sufficiently 'ethically' inclined one can become a fruitarian, the presumably highest state of moral righteousness regarding diet that one can attain in human form.

    The Breatharian is a special case, of course. And can live in any or all of the above, but not for very long.....:whistle:

    The dietary ethical values system can get a bit Monty Python, looking down at the Carnivores :reddevil: at one end of the scale, and looking up at the vacuous Breatharians :insane: at the other...

  • Just to give it a bump, there's an interesting little article here on the Black Vegan scene over in the States....

    Only ever known one Black Vegan over here, and that was years back. He used to work in a local meat processing and pie factory for awhile, and what he experienced there turned him vegan by the time he left....:vomit:

    I knew somebody who had a similar experience working in the Walls pie factory when it was in West London years ago

  • This guy had some scary stories, like workers throwing meat at each other in meat fights, then straight off the floor into the vats; spilled meat left for days under the rollers eventually shovelled off the floor directly into the vats; night-shifters too lazy to walk the 200 metres to the toilet pissing into the vats...