Self employed, benfits

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  • There are people who are self emp really struggling out there less work coming in and the possiblitly of self isolating,


    The whole payout is a bit of a mess, but the goverment had to do something quick, and i guess hospitality and retail where hit first, but if you work for someone your sorted you get a basic wage you can just get by, but why is there a scale of pay to your job, surely it should be what you need to get by.


    the goverment has rolled out a minumum of 2 k a month thats 24 k a year, i only earn that on a good year, yet self emp have to accept the state sick of £94 per week thats about £4800 a year sweet f a for a person delivering or sub for a bigger firm or just a sole trade, they could go bankrupt.


    Not really fair, we should all be means tested, i have low means so i wouldnt want much or non at all depending on how long work dried up. however some poor buggers arnt on a lot and they live hand to mouth.


    Yes money needed to be out quick but its been done a bit hamfisted

  • It doesn't seem fair does it? I will only get £94.50 / week. Luckily as has been said elsewhere us boat / truck / treehouse * dwellers live simply anyway but still it isn't really fair.


    How about the Universal Basic Payment idea? We all get £150 / week.


    * Other forms of accommodation are available.

  • Yes i think thats the best idea, a flat rate,


    Also if the country (should) goes on total lock down, why not alter food deliv, ie a network of delivery vehicles, if i am not carrying a virus my van is clean id even have it cleaned again by a valeting service with disenfectant.

    but maybe the army should be cleaning really.


    on the front line delivering to every estate, drop off points villages, hamlets, policed by army, you go at an allocated time on your house number, if your off grid then you sit in your vehicle till its your turn,


    When it goes on maybe either digital or ration books,


    So on point if we are fed basics on or requirements, alergies if its delivered to key points we have no need to go to the shops, and also if food is met this leaves money for rent, mortages bills loans debts.


    Government should bring in a call off of ballifs, a chance to have finance breaks say a trade has bought a van on finance and work dries up.


    Everyone should have a basic benefit, all the same.


    If you in business and you have nothing in the bank you should have a loan to just cover costs

  • I have no symptoms & I'd be glad to supply my van & myself to any distribution effort that was set up. As you say, clean vehicles dropping at a designated pickup point could work well. Things seem to be levelling out now anyway, ma's just been to local Coop & said they have a good selection on the shelves again. Not fully stocked by any means but basic needs are all there apparently....

  • It doesn't seem fair does it? I will only get £94.50 / week. Luckily as has been said elsewhere us boat / truck / treehouse * dwellers live simply anyway but still it isn't really fair.


    How about the Universal Basic Payment idea? We all get £150 / week.


    * Other forms of accommodation are available.

    Only £94.50 blimey, I live damn well on that, I wish I was earning more to be able to say only £94.50 a week. I'm self employed running my own little business and the end of year figure after expenses can be around £3 - £4 K, last two years it showed a loss on paper, I do get working tax credit of which has been a life line to keep me bobbing along. I have been frugal and have made a regular saving over time so can survive for a year or so without work, £94.50 a week living in my truck, I feel I'm doing alright on that.

  • Wiz, I think you said somewhere your rent is £10 a week? I can do roadside in summer and costs are low but in winter my overheads are in the region of £80 and upwards I agree £94 is an amount easily lived on, unfortunately when I started my business I ran up some credit card debt and there is interest to pay. And if I have to pay site fees £94 is gobbled up almost instantly. Plus VED, insurance, diesel, MOT, repairs.


    But what I was really on about was that employed people would get paid 80% of their wages to to £2.5k while we got £94. It seemed somewhat inequitable. That was my point. However it's changed now and govt will give us 80% of average earnings over last three years. So that is good, feels fairer. 😀

  • Just a thought, my son is 16 & has just been told his college is shut till further notice. He recently applied to the local garden centre for a part time job & was told they would have something for him shortly. Obviously now that's not happening, & it looks like he's now out of college & has no income. Wonder if he will be getting any compensation?.....🤔😉

  • Hate to be awful but in my opinion unless he has someone depending on him then there must be people more needy out there, however if he has a student loan that should be put on hold.


    However if he lives with you or your partner/wife, or ex i dont know your situation, then you as a unit should get a basic package and a basic food ration.


    The whole thing is a total mess, if speedy means testing could happen, ok they look in my bank balance and say well he can survive, but people more in need should get a break on there bills and a baisic living wage. to just get by.


    They need to re think legislation


    personally i think boris is useless lacks clarity and bumbles on a load of rubbish.


    We could do with a better leader, god knows how, i think rishi sunak is a better clearer speaker if not leader.



    The us also looks horrendous trump as well

  • dont get me wrong, we're not in such a desperate situation as some folk, I always try to have 2 or 3 weeks worth of supplies on stock anyway so we're not in danger yet. Was just a passing comment, more than happy to support my boy through this same as I usually do....😉

    Hoping you guys are all managing to keep afloat too....

  • So this young guy was presumably looking forward to getting this pt job which would pay much more than dole and is now sidelined in his ambition and more importantly in his earning potential in order to protect older, vulnerable people.


    Ive no doubt that bigbear has raised an amazing little human but not compensating this 16yr old appropriately is in line with the usual guff.


    Why should he be penalised more than others will be?

  • Sorry i arnt answering zen prev post but slightly off topic, but if i worked for a company i would waiver my holiday pay and holiday time off , after all if i could survive to go on hol or stop at home and get paid then id call this my holiday time off,


    In construction that may be an issue around christmas time as if you work for someone its usually an anual holiday quite a long spell so if nowt coming in then could be tricky.


    Just think a good sacrifice would be holiday pay just for this year.


    As self emp dont get holiday pay

  • Wiz, I think you said somewhere your rent is £10 a week? I can do roadside in summer and costs are low but in winter my overheads are in the region of £80 and upwards I agree £94 is an amount easily lived on, unfortunately when I started my business I ran up some credit card debt and there is interest to pay. And if I have to pay site fees £94 is gobbled up almost instantly. Plus VED, insurance, diesel, MOT, repairs.


    But what I was really on about was that employed people would get paid 80% of their wages to to £2.5k while we got £94. It seemed somewhat inequitable. That was my point. However it's changed now and govt will give us 80% of average earnings over last three years. So that is good, feels fairer. 😀

    Yes my ground rent for my park up inc leccy hook up is that Millie but there is a reason for it, I do keep an eye on the place as the owners do not live round here, having someone here is in their interest especially as no one is around at night time. I know some freinds who pay £90 a week for a long term park up on a caravan site plus they have to feed the leccy meter but one of them is a high earner so can afford it, I couldnt. I just cant get my head around paying that much cash for a park up. Farms have always been a freindly resource over the years where have been able to do a few hours in exchange for and when seasonal picking work was on then park up's were provided but in very recent years I needed somewhere to reside in one place. Where I have been able to save over time for emergency situations and later on a small pension fund hopefully rather than having to fill someone elses pocket in extorionate fee's/rent to live somewhere I have a safety net which yes, I feel blessed for it but have worked blood sweat and tears for, I dont need the virus wage funds and to be honest, I think I would not apply for it as debt is like inviting Satan into my life and I refuse to do debt in any shape or form if ever I can help it, this emergency fund isnt going to be free gratis, but from what I have heard, pay back is interest free. It is right the Government should be putting this money out for folk to tide them over, after all, without a nation of worker ants, their privilaged life would be nothing like it is.

  • @Wiz, gosh I wasn't having a go, my point in saying 'only' £94 is because 94 X 4.4 (no of weeks in a month) = £413.60. While sequestered employees get up to £2.5k. That is what I found unfair.


    I say good for you for sorting yourself a nice arrangement.


    The Chancellor says he doesn't know how to deliver more money to the self-employed and it's open to abuse. Well, well, abusing the system eh? What about MPs expenses? House of Lords £300 for turning up, they don't have to stay and work, just turn up.


    I hadn't heard that this was a sort of loan system, thought it was an upgrade to benefits - taxable but only clawed back if obtained fraudulently.

  • On the subject of lockdown ha ha ha. I'm parked at the side of a road. There has been a slight reduction in traffic but nowhere near a lockdown.


    Lots of trades vans, not surprising given the lack of support. Many private cars, obviously I don't know if these are genuine essential journeys.


    Cycled to the shop today for fresh veg, Co-op and greengroce'r doing distancing which was great, after the scenes in Asda last week, some crazy woman who wouldn't queue and was shouting, 'People die every day!' and swearing at the staff until her social worker turned up.


    Several groups of people walking along together.


    On the Downs, again groups of people walking and sitting together, and the local dogs must think all their birthdays have come at once!


    BoJo needs to support the self-employed and get this lockdown properly enforced, otherwise it's a waste of time.

  • I know i am off topic but i rang me accountant today she said did i want to claim anything i said not she said thats admirable, most have jumped on the bandwagon shut up shop and wanting money trying to claim all sorts, and i bet a lot have more money than me.


    Maybe they know something i dont maybe this is going to bite hard, i said did i need my books in she said no but obvs claim for your tools or if you need to buy anything, and i have to get all sorted for july or sort now theyl want there tax out of you at some point so it makes no difference if you pay now or later they will still want it.


    I accept tax whatever it is as long as i can get by this year that l do,


    I m refusing to bother to claim that money is needed for people and services right now. i am not claiming or signing on some gits with more than me will though i bet.


    On another point her other half works in a factory that makes office furniture, there currently making hospital beds! they were approached


    A lot is going on behind the scenes i recon, the buffoon at the lectern is just for us to all vent at i guess.

  • Are you OK Prepper?


    I'm concerned.


    Is it normal for you for your opinions and arguments to be so diversly scattered across the political and personal spectrum?


    You appear to be displaying a highly elevated stressful state and have been doing so for many weeks.


    Your posts are very frequently highly contradictory to your previous posts and you seem very, very worried.


    You might need to seek some help with your mental and emotional health mate.


    I'm thinking that primarily you have got yourself all twisted up with guilt because you did not properly self isolate when you were ill.


    It's in the past. You should've done it properly but you didn't.


    You can't change it mate.... Learn from it then move on to the next problem and leave it behind you.

  • Thanks for the concern, I did what i could but it wasnt enough, also three weeks ago we had mixed messages on herd immunity, however yes some blame goes back to me,


    I got wet through at work


    i wore a mask to work when i had what i thought was a cold. cleaned wherever i worked and practised social distancing and didnt use the facilties on the job.


    To my knowledge no one has fallen ill yet where i have worked so i must have done something ok.


    i went home laid up for a few days but felt better thinking its just been a cold went to shops practised self distancing only shopped at quiet shops like a garage that had a mini supermarket early one morning the works but got home and felt ill again.


    To me this dam thing would make me feel fit as a fiddle for a day thinking id got rid of it then it would hit me hard.







  • I agree with Zendaze (however crazy that may sound!) - Prepper, and I have said this to you before, you do sound like you are in a bit of a tizzy. I mean this in a friendly, helpful way, I hope you realise that. Is there anyone you can talk to? To get your thoughts in order? I saw something about therapists who are giving their time for free... I will try to find the link for you.


    In the meantime can I give you some suggestions (nb: I am not a doctor): Stay home for at least a few days, keep warm, drink plenty of fluids (not alcohol), eat some nice food, watch tv, films, read, listen to music, whatever you do to relax. Meditation is very good, it really is. Don't watch any news programmes, don't wind yourself up about what everyone else is or isn't doing, or what you may or may not have done. Whatever it is, you can't change it, so no point in fretting and beating yourself up.


    I'll try to find that link for you. Maybe the Practice Nurse at your local GP could speak with you, I know they are busy, but if you ring reception and tell them you are at your wits' end, can't sleep for worrying, and could you speak to someone... it's worth a phone call.


    You can always PM me, and I imagine the others would say the same. Take care xx

  • What a lovely bunch you are, show concern for those among us who seem troubled. :hippylove:

    Self-employment reminds me of the diesel trap, you know when we were advised to buy diesel vehicles because it was better and ultimately cheaper? Self-employment has been seen as a way of government agencies avoiding taking any responsibility for us because we are not in their system ... until it comes to demanding tax. If we don't earn enough it is our own fault for not working hard enough ... allegedly.


    Before I go on I don't class myself as one of the "troubled" ...


    I've only been self-employed for about twenty-one years, but there seems to be a lot to which the self-employed find themselves not entitled when compared with the formally employed. The chancellor's package of support last week simply amplified this. It may be that there are systems in place to assist us, but I find the jumping-through-hoops game just too stressful, so I've never bothered and I've deliberately removed myself from the game. Of course there are advantages to being self-employed, but the headaches can be legion. I have managed to reduce my outgoings over the past couple of decades and I try to keep a little in savings from my redundancy twenty-one years ago and my father's bequest eight years ago. Unfortunately, through austerity measures in recent times, I have seen pretty much all my paid work in education disappear and the virus has now seen to the two remaining school bookings I had in the diary for this year. Over the past couple of years I have been able to afford to live mainly off gig money, but now that has dried up too. At the other end of the scale a friend of mine has just had a twelve-date fully sold-out German tour cancelled while Amanda Palmer is holed up in New Zealand with Neil Gaiman and their son. Things could always be worse :shitfan:


    Most of the people I know are not wealthy and live hand to mouth. Many of my friends are, like me, giving performances online and begging for tips and for people to buy their recorded work and merchandise, assuming we have any. I've been buying albums made by my musician friends, but as far as I can see, we are just recycling money between ourselves under an illusion that we're supporting each other as our own funds disappear. Even fellow musicians are only rarely able to offer financial support so, unless one has a substantial fan base, living off online performance isn't remotely viable. Of course all this extra online activity means that one risks using up one's whole data allowance before the month's out. I could end up in total isolation because of that.

    To be honest I'm not sure where I'm going with this ramble. Yes there should be equity of the support to which we are entitled if we've been honest in our dealings with HMRC, but this opens up several other cans of worms. As it happens every penny I have ever earned has gone through my books. Once again, this is partly down to not wanting the stress of having to account for any discrepancy were it ever to be questioned, but mostly because I try hard to treat others with the honesty and fairness with which I expect to be treated. However, for most weeks of the past five years I doubt I have earned anywhere near £94, so to have the assurance of that coming in would be handy, although at the moment I don't feel inclined to apply for it. I guess it would cover most of my monthly outgoings, but ... the hassle, man. I just want to do the gig and get paid. I am just so relieved that I don't have the expenses associated with living in a bricks and mortar situation. If you are self-employed and paying rent, council tax, utility bills, vehicle costs on top of that and trying to stay alive you have my utmost sympathies.


    This morning I've received a number of e-mails from organisations/support groups to which I have contributed in the past reporting that their income has also dried up. It breaks my heart to turn my back on them, but I can't help any more or for the foreseeable future. The young gay man in a refugee camp in Kenya did get to me though. He is sitting there waiting for the virus to arrive, which it undoubtedly will, and just rip through the whole community. There are 220,000 people living in a space erected for 70,000. Fresh water, food, sanitation and personal safety issues for lgbt+ people - many of whom already have compromised immune systems - are problematic enough. I have it easy.

  • The Westminster incompetents are willing to ruin the future economy borrowing 330 billion to squander on God knows what so freeze mortgages,overdraft charges card debts rent etc let the banking system who were saved by the taxpayer return the favour. Supposedly 52 million adults in UK so £6300 each, more if wealthy keep noses out of trough.I

    If you can't feed yourself and kids on that for a few months in a time of crisis then your a wastrel not worth saving .

    Then there's no excuse for anyone other than the absolutely necessary to be out and about if you want a real lockdown.

    Landlords of whatever size are a business so if they want help they can surrender an agreed amount of their massive equity gains to the nation. Shared ownership, forever touted by big companies to trap the small fish in long term debt having a role reversal.

    Obviously with government full of arseholes bookies would probably offer billion to one odds.

  • I lived self-employed for some 28 years, in various jobs, and as Marshlander says, it can be a bit of a nightmare.


    As a mate of mine used to say, you get rid of the one boss man, but you find you have lots of little bosses, all of whom think they can call upon you at any time, evenings and Sundays included.


    Two colleagues of mine, also self-employed, put £16K each into a private pension over the years, thinking it would help their piss-poor state pension when they retired. They lost it all in the crash of 2008. Then spent another £1K or so hiring a solicitor to try and get some of it back - he couldn't.


    Self-employment has got a lot worse over the last 10 years, with much of the work being zero-hour contracts, and no minimum work hours. So these days, unless your partner is in a well-paid regular job, being self-employed often means you have to live in private rented property, partly because you can't get enough together for a mortgage, and partly because even if you got one, paying out for it regularly would be very uncertain.


    Claiming for anything in the way of benefits from the government has never been easy, they make it tedious and difficult so that most people don't bother. Why else would there be scores of £Millions left over in unclaimed benefits every year?

  • And now The Chancellor says we have to wait until June to get the money. Again I stress that I am in a good position with low overheads and also I'm already on the UC database so I can just restart my claim if necessary.


    He also said our tax and NI would go up afterwards - I don't earn enough for this to matter for me - but what a cheek! He says to make us equal with employed people. Oh, do they spend their weekends marketing, doing their books, keeping up to date with the industry? What about sick and holiday pay? What about when your clients want something NOW and it's evening time or the weekend. Or, when the people you sub contract to want you to be self employed to get around the minimum wage rules?


    *goes off muttering to self...*

  • And now The Chancellor says we have to wait until June to get the money. Again I stress that I am in a good position with low overheads and also I'm already on the UC database so I can just restart my claim if necessary.


    He also said our tax and NI would go up afterwards - I don't earn enough for this to matter for me - but what a cheek! He says to make us equal with employed people. Oh, do they spend their weekends marketing, doing their books, keeping up to date with the industry? What about sick and holiday pay? What about when your clients want something NOW and it's evening time or the weekend. Or, when the people you sub contract to want you to be self employed to get around the minimum wage rules?


    *goes off muttering to self...*

    Simples......... hide, isolate, chew tyre rubber until we can get a proper job..... :reddevil:


    It’s not just those who are “officially/registered” selfemployed who will have to wait a few months for gov £support. Equally as many “get by” relying on a system they live by. Be that topping up pensions through wheeler dealer’in, car booting, helping folk out, part time labouring or selling crack. Right now many of the businesses (our self employed) worked for, wont be in business ever again, certainly not if this lockdown goes beyond June. Those businesses who required its workers to be S E contractors before, instead of putting them on the books will go first. Businesses who pay Ni / holiday pay / sick pay will receive gov support until the very end, to both protect the business and workers. There will be a massive increase in unemployment around the world.

  • Most of the people I know are not wealthy and live hand to mouth. Many of my friends are, like me, giving performances online and begging for tips and for people to buy their recorded work and merchandise, assuming we have any.

    London brewer, Signature Brew, has launched a ‘Pub in a Box’, delivered to your door by recently unemployed musicians.