Climate Change

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UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • I am sorry to rogue trader i seem to have hi jacked his tread on climate change.

    Just been reading articles on all sorts on the net, i finally have worked out that it really is a bad idea to burn fossil fuels, even as a quick fix.

    One interesting concept is the world is getting greener as plants have more carbon to help them grow quicker, just one downer on this good news they breathe the carbon out on a night so plants and trees would remove a lot of co2 to a point then when to saturated they just breathe out more co2 in a maxed out environment.

    Whats the answer? do we cycle everywhere, do everything by hand? what happened to running cars on gas as a green alternative? obvs that didnt work but could we run a car on methane from landfill or sewerage?

    Are there any people on here that can boast of a low or zero carbon lifestyle.

    I am guessing a plot of land, a veg garden, maybe (controversial) a few free range grassfed rabbits,

    I am a typical carbon producer, try a bit but work and convenince makes it easier to use the shops.

  • I wrote a fitting uk hippy national anthem today -

    God save our gracious tree's

    Long live our noble tree's

    God save the tree's

    Their death would not be hilarious

    Their health is quite precarious

    So wont you come and join with us

    to help save the tree's :-)

  • I overthink things, but news was on this morning.

    In liverpool trees are being collected to chip up, the women in charge said its helpful for combatting climate change.

    I thought eh if people had log burners at there houses they would use less energy burning them and sawing them by hand.

    By having there trees chipped or pulped it must use more energy and fuel,

    Sometimes the climate change thing is banded about without much thought.

  • If one would be taking it to the tip in the car,sometimes in a few trips,or was considering burning it all in the garden with leaves and all then yes the recycling of the tree is a far better option.

    They have very good green waste recycling facilities where I am working at the moment on the cote d azur. I take a few bags a day down to the recycle bins quarter of a mile down the mountain,as see it as a much more environmental process than smoking out the neighbourhood for weeks on end with green waste and also risking bush fires that happen every year around these parts.

    When I am working in my forest in Brittany I always say that there is no such thing as garden waste,just lack of imagination.

    I however have 6 acres so have got the space to use up any cuttings. Even all the brambles,cut fern,grasses and leaves get folded to make big organic bricks and I have built up my own hedgerow bank over the years with it all and when its looked after it is very infitting and tidy and hosts many different types of small animals,birds and insects :-)

    It is Maximum environmentally friendly use of the things that have to be cut back for both my use of the forest and the health of the forest :-)

  • Cynicism is a great way to learn new things,even if it may take a while to accept them !!

    It all boils down to what the services are on offer and what methods of disposal the individual has,so one can not say in general that one way is always better than others.

    But all in all recycling is a good thing with regards to most items I think :-)

  • Heres an intersting thought, I ve had a "fake" christmas tree for 10 to 15 years now, before that it was grans who got it off my dad where it had been used previously in a holiday cottage complex nearly 30 years ago , a new company bought the complex and they decided to get rid of a few of them (god knows why) about 24 or 25 years ago.

    So thats at least 30 trees a very small wood, no trips to get the tree get rid of the tree etc, so if in theory those 30 trees have not been cut have in a strange way helped the environment ?

    Not saying everyone should rush to buy a plaggy tree but i ve had it years. maybe it released a massive amount of carbon when it was made though, but by me not chucking it theres still all be it a small amount of carbon still locked in the fake tree.

  • I try hard to do my bit to save the planet. I wear more clothes in winter and have less heating on, I cycle to the shops whenever I can, wear clothes til they fall off, recycle stuff, consider food miles, keep things til they break, live in a tiny house (albeit on wheels), don't fly, don't eat animals. Sometimes it's a PITA, but I do it anyway.

    Some of my friends are involved in XR and since last summer I have really been looking at people's habits regarding the planet:

    Four people I know have huge gardens - none grow their own food.

    They all drive everywhere, including driving children to school bus.

    They all eat meat.

    They all fly, some have several holidays per year which they fly to.

    One is building a new house, no solar panels, ground source heating, extra thick insulation.

    New houses are being built, many not near work or other resources like schools or shops so people will drive. Built with legal minimum insulation, no solar, no ground source / alternative heat source and big rooms, many rooms, en suite bathrooms. So they all require more in terms of resource, and then more in terms of bloody furniture to fill all that space.

    So sometimes when I trip over my bag of recycling (and in a van having recycling hanging around is a nuisance let's face it) that is waiting for me to sort out and put into the right places I swear, yes I do, and I think, 'Wow, I am totally wasting my time doing this'. And then I just carry on doing what I can to save the earth...

  • Well done,

    i do little but i dont profess to be green however i should do more i want to grow veg but always flat out at work so to knackered to do anything, tried growing spuds one year they got blight, must do more, i keep bees with dad but thats not good enough.

    I ve only been on two short flights in my life, at the moment but i am itching to see the world,

    I have a log burner that i mainly burn off cuts from work on, i even kept every scrap of wood that i couldnt use to burn on the log burner, which heat the water,

    I also have a boiler so thats pretty bad of me as well.

    I am crap at this i guess my little van is good on fuel and emissions are very low off it.

    Ps ground source and air source heat pumps arnt the total fix for the planet.

    I ve seen the electric consumtion on those things they are quite high on electric use.

    I think solar is the best

    If i had the money id have solar on the roof (however houses opposite shadow roof a bit) combined with a pressurised emmursion system, linked in with an open system log burner back boiler, and maybe sink a bore hole for a ground source system.

    I am still scepitical of the air source, ie it takes ages for water to heat up from what ive seen so that means useing quite a bit of eletric for the pumps, fan heat exchanger, etc, whereas when you turn an emmursion on its in the water cylinder so do you in theory use less electric.

  • I must have planted in exes of 75,000 broadleaf trees species in my life. Most wont grow to high trees but hedgerows. I’ve Left 5 acres to grass for over 30 years. My thinking is Im offsetting my carbon footprint. In my days I’ve recycled possibly 100 plus ton of scrap metal for cash.

    The devil in me loves diesel. Smokey diesel tractor engines, older vehicles. I’ve had more fires than most, burning processed and unprocessed wood. I don’t freak out about burning huge bonfires even if what is being burnt isn’t healthy for anyone.

    I eat farmed animals and have kept horses. I’ve considered growing a biodiesel crop on the 5 acres to fuel my vehicles tax free. But thats only robbing a Peter to save a bit with a Paul on a environmental level. The permanent species rich grass lay would be sacrificed to grow biodiesel.

    we talk about pollution and human impact from burning fossil “carbon based fuel”. Look how much is going skyward these last few weeks in Australia. It kinda puts my worries in perspective gee.

  • Taking your devil side away steve,you sound like a top bloke :-)

  • Beezer good beezer good,keeping bees is good :-)

  • I do what I can to have a care, I wont say doing my bit to save the planet as I think that statement is very futile for one person to claim they are doing. It will take most of the human race in the modern world to save the planet and that my freinds isnt going to happen any time soon.

    No matter what we do or dont, the natural cycles of the Earth going through ice ages then periods of extreme heat and drought will see us off eventually. Beofre long, there is going to be huge rafts of peoples that will be unable to live in their natural home lands due to oncoming extreme naturally occuring weather conditions and in some places around the world that is already happening. Even in the UK, it is noticeably warming, in East Anglia it's rare we get snow now where as at one time, we would be inundated with massive falls.

    I feel naturally occuring climate change due to our planets natural life is moving on further and faster towards doom than what humans are doing. We are not helping but we are not the cause. It is known we are at the end of the last ice age and that means only one thing, Ice caps and glsciers melting, rising sea levels, surface temperatures rising, desertification of once green lands, this is happening at a rapid rate in Spain. No matter what humans do to halt our activity we will not be able to stop the natural occurences that will eventually wipe out life on Earth.

  • OOh i am feeling contraversial, anyone think we were probably the greenest when we were hunter gatherers and maybe that would be the future model of a green society.

    Food basicly walks around on legs, no fridges or freezers required no cultivated land required.

    Examples of this would be the masai tribes in africa and tribes in the amazon yes they had some cultivation and clearance of woods but less pressure on land around them.

    So while we are technolgical advanced, we still rely on massive amounts of energy to get store and eat food.

    Cultivation, harvest, storage(freezers fridges) , movement boats, trucks, etc, storage again, at the shops and at home then cooking it.

    Back as cavemen we followed the food on legs and used less resources.

  • I feel naturally occuring climate change due to our planets natural life is moving on further and faster towards doom than what humans are doing. We are not helping but we are not the cause. It is known we are at the end of the last ice age and that means only one thing, Ice caps and glsciers melting, rising sea levels, surface temperatures rising, desertification of once green lands, this is happening at a rapid rate in Spain. No matter what humans do to halt our activity we will not be able to stop the natural occurences that will eventually wipe out life on Earth.

    I generally agree with all of this wizard1luv. We are the animals that got to speak, collectively we are no more structured than a beehive, but for some reason and although we grew up together. We consider our own species to be of a greater importance, We march blindly forward hoping time will be on our side.

    Now hear this.... cry’s from the tea cup.....

    In the next 100 years, there is a 15 percent chance the North Atlantic Current could experience a temporary shutdown. A natural occurrence or the delayed effect of our own run away arrogance? :whistle:…ily-in-the-next-100-years

  • OOh i am feeling contraversial, anyone think we were probably the greenest when we were hunter gatherers and maybe that would be the future model of a green society.

    Back as cavemen we followed the food on legs and used less resources.

    Early man was on a short and fast learning curve. Residing high up where possible, for a observation/protection advantage. Depleting resources within arms reach, trees, soil, seed and the feeding animals. Move down the hill bit by bit, to where new seeds grow and dangers increase. Slowly slowly changing habitats. Learning to cultivate to reduce risk of hunger and threats. Slash and burn, domesticate, leading to further resource depletion, erosion and exploitation.

    Early man took a sharp point to anything that moved, regardless of what it tastes like and burnt everything in their way. So much change for so few early uprights.

  • The planet doesnt need saving,the planet will be perfectly fine for at least 3.5 billion years all on her own until the sun dies.

    She managed perfectly well for the last 4 billion years and half a dozen extinction events. Nope the planet doesnt need saving.

    Humans do.

    And on the current known historical record of human ability to save iitself and its numerous civilisations from blatantly obvious obliteration its not managed at all well.

    Although we are fucking up the planet at a rapid rate,a lot of climate change and heating and cooling is part of a greater natural cycle of planetary and stellar procession that we have no control over whatsoever.

    Humans will go extinct,something else will replace us in time.

    Theres so much pointless hot air waffled on and on about this subject and no doubt it will keep being waffled when the entire Earth looks like Australia is right now and still folks will stay in denial and do fuck all about climate change.

    Give up your cars, give up your fancy technology,stop buying cheap shit from countries thousands of miles away,stop going on holidays on ships and airliners,stop travelling round burning fuel you dont need to burn,stop building big houses and buying second homes and boy toys and eating out in restaurants and going to cinemas and theatres and spending your leisure time wrecking the countryside.....

    Its what is needed to 'save the planet ' AKA save humankind....Aint gonna happen is it!

    We can and should all do what we can to reduce our footprint in the Earth and consider what we do and how we can improve or do without but the truth is most people just wont do that. Theyll carry on as normal because they like how they live and will carry on till the shit hits the fan.When it does theyll be blaming everyone else but themselves for the mess.The best we can do is the best we can do as individuals to mitigate our damage and hope that others follow suit. Its not something humans have a choice over really if the species intends to survive.

  • All species reach their population tipping point and if left alone the entire mechanism self regulates,humans are no different except we are better at bringing our species (and others) and our civilisations to tipping point far more quickly.

    Although we are a clever species and can see what we do and what can bring about that tipping point we are not astute enough to do anything about it.

    We prefer to live in a fog of denial and deluded belief that we can engineer our way out of the shit if we need to when the time comes,so all is well.

    The problem is we are upsetting a finite balance in an eco system we still barely understand.

    Our breathable atmosphere is barely five miles thick,only a fifth of that is oxygen essential for our lives.

    It shouldnt take a genius to work out our time here is limited especially if we continue shitting in our own goldfish bowl.

    The modern way we all live is unsustainable,sooner rather than later we will reach a tipping point we cannot recover from and no amount of planetary engineering will save our species.

    Fertility rates of humans globally are plummeting for reasons no scientist has yet fathomed but most likely due to environmental influences so perhaps the writing is already on the wall.

  • Population is still rising but human fertility rates have fallen consistently over the last 40 years.

    I think in reality the likely problem will be drought,collapse of agricultural systems famine and disease.

    Australia is just a foretaste

  • Obviously human fertility rates aren't falling fast enough. And all this ever-increasing world population want the same living standards using the same amount of resources as middle-class America, now they (mostly) have the technology to see how the rich folks live....

    I'd certainly agree the main natural problem will be drought, probably getting worse more quickly in large continental land masses. But war in some unstable regions will increase the movement of populations across large areas, which in itself will contribute to more over-population in favoured areas, resulting in a great deal of human chaos, degenerating into local warfare.

    One can see epidemics being deliberately introduced or encouraged in some regions in order to thin out the population by those who have the means to do so, if not enough people die out through other causes, like starvation and disease.

    Of course, if any kind of nuclear war was started, we might find ourselves dying from a nuclear winter rather than a hotter climate, for some years at least. A bad nuclear winter could precipitate another glaciation for many thousands of years.

    Humans will come and go, the Earth endures...

  • You may not believe this but when I was a little 7 yr old nerd in the 50's I read all about Venus and the way the clouds kept in the heat and even then, thought that if the Black Country, where I lived, kept having clouds of smoke and steam above it, maybe that's what might happen to the Earth. I was a weird kid.....................ok, I grew into a weird old hippy I suppose.

  • Funny you saying that, doc, because as a small kid I remember listening with disbelief to my father explaining that after liquid petrol was burnt in an engine, what was left just vanished into the air.

    It just didn't sound quite right; it felt as if I had come to some kind of magical world, where there were apparently often no consequences to actions...:shrug:

  • I can remember watching telly as a kid in awe at what the yanks had, telephones in kitchens with long leads, tvs with remotes way back in 50s and 60s , radios and tape decks in cars, a garage full of stuff fairly new tools, and fast food, there was no fast food when i was a kid, just the chip shop that shut at 8. kids cupboards full of toys in fact a "closet" just for toys.

    We lapped up the yank dream spoon fed it right through our childhood.

  • That is one thing that is being watched closely, that being the melting of the ice caps thus weakening the salinity of the oceans, the weaker that gets then yes, things could change drastically.

  • And strangely the stratospheric polar vortex above the north polar region is the coldest and most extreme its been in 40 to 60 years at -96C and winds in excess of 400kmph which suggests the polar region at surface down to arctic circle latitudes should be very much colder this year than its been for a pretty long while. Also much warmer Europe and Atlantic and that extreme hot cold difference usually means potential for extreme stormy weather.

  • Actually youre not wrong or controversial. Hunter gatherer lifestyles as lived by indigenous peooles are far more eco friendly and in tune with their environment. They harvest what they need and can handle or store over periods of shortage not accumulate just because they want or can.

    Nothing goes to waste and preservation of foodstuffs is simple and fairly energy efficient - smoking salting or air drying. People who subsistence hunt and fish do so out of need not vanity.

    Homes are simple,of local materials,portable non polluting and sustainable.

    The hunting aspect probably wouldn't sit well with vegan ideals but nothing of our modern lifestyle is really free from some kind of exploitation or suffering whether its animal or human.

    Personally id rather live the hunter gatherer lifestyle than how i do now...its just not really practical in this country,too many NIMBYS.