Vegan fast food

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  • I heard a report on Radio 4 this morning and they were talking about the new release of vegan fast food from the high street crap food chain, Mcdonalds, KFC and Greggs are now doing this. what I cannot fathom is just why would anyone who follows a vegan diet for their own reasons go and buy vegan fast food from the massive global corps meat based fast food outlets. I'm not vegan but if I was they are the last places I would be buying a snack/meal from, I eat responsibly sourced local meat from time to time, I've never eaten a Mcdonalds in all my life, as a meat eater I still wouldnt go spending my hard earned in those places as that's akin to supporting them plus I feel what they do chiuck out as food is utter crap.


    Or do vegan folk welcome another option for an outlet to have a vegan snack/meal and would these folk feel comfortable about spending money with these fast food chains who are massively involved in intensive farming which the vegan movement is so against ?

  • why would anyone who follows a vegan diet for their own reasons go and buy vegan fast food from the massive global corps meat based fast food outlets.

    I think it's great.


    Firstly, veganism, isn't just a diet, it's a whole way of living that excludes animal products from every area of life -- as much as possible. It's not about health, because nobody got healthy from avoiding leather or zoos etc.


    It's an animal rights movement, and as such it is beyond human issues such as political ideology -- whether someone objects to corporations, capitalism and the like, veganism is about animals.

    As such, the greater availability of vegan options, the more accessible veganism is -- fewer people can complain that it's too difficult.


    I don't want veganism to be limited to a few hippies and anarcho-punks living in communes and squats, I don't want it to be just for those who with the knowledge to make all their meals from scratch or grow their own food.

    I want it to be available for anyone and everyone; yes, include the hippies, but also include the single parents who want their kid to feel included, include the drunk emerging from the pub at midnight starving, include the people hanging out in the mall with nothing better to do.


    Include the people who might typically be too busy to get beyond the sausage rolls at Greggs or the people on limited means who can only afford cheap pizza from Iceland etc.


    The more options the better. :)

  • Whereas I think that is a well written and interesting response Paul which lots of does make complete sense to me, I can not understand why a vegan would consider boosting the profits of a huge food company that makes billions of pounds each year from the exploitation of animals !!


    However vegan take aways and quick snack shops sounds a brilliant idea and I for one would use them if I was near anywhere that had them.


    Bring on the fried dumplings ( vegan and gluten free of course ) :-)

  • Whereas I think that is a well written and interesting response Paul which lots of does make complete sense to me, I can not understand why a vegan would consider boosting the profits of a huge food company that makes billions of pounds each year from the exploitation of animals !!

    Where are vegans to shop then? You've just excluded every supermarket chain in the country. They ALL exploit animals very heavily either in their fresh and frozen meat and fish sections or in their manufactured products which includes tins, ready meals and sandwich fillings. I don't know what the figures are but I'm betting that MacDonalds falls by the wayside compared to the amount of animal products used in meal productions at home. They've had a VERY bad press over the years AND they deserve it but they aren't the arch villians here. They're merely a gnat in a wasps nest.

  • Whereas I think that is a well written and interesting response Paul which lots of does make complete sense to me, I can not understand why a vegan would consider boosting the profits of a huge food company that makes billions of pounds each year from the exploitation of animals !!


    However vegan take aways and quick snack shops sounds a brilliant idea and I for one would use them if I was near anywhere that had them.


    Bring on the fried dumplings ( vegan and gluten free of course ) :-)

    This is the point I was making IC, the big corps inc. Mcdonalds involved in the exploitation of animals of which is plain here that veganism is all about the animals which it is, buying vegan food from these outlets is akin to supporting their poor ethics regarding intensive animals by putting money in their till. Although it can be said to be making it more widely available as an option on the menu, it is still like going oh well, you exploit animals in intensive farming that goes against morals and ethics of being on a vegan diet but we will spend money with you. Me personally, if I was a vegan, I would not spend money in those places for that reason, it wouldnt sit well with me, I would be finding better alternatives, I dont eat fast food from these places anyway, it's just junk crap. I dont buy meat from a supermarket for that reason although organic meat is available in supermarkets.

  • Never mind just the vegan thing does the tofu, soy, soya, almond milk, all come from sustainable land or is it from mc donald land a deforested jungle in south america somewhere?


    Questions years ago where asked where beef came from, argentina, brazil, etc no one really bothers asking where vegi stuff comes from, ie sustainably managed farms, or deforested farm or will that be kept quiet.

  • Never mind just the vegan thing does the tofu, soy, soya, almond milk, all come from sustainable land or is it from mc donald land a deforested jungle in south america somewhere?

    Something like 90%+ of all the world's soya is used as animal feed -- I believe that most of the remainder goes to the Asian market.


    If you're worried about soya use, then it makes sense to cut out meat ;)

  • Where are vegans to shop then? You've just excluded every supermarket chain in the country. They ALL exploit animals very heavily either in their fresh and frozen meat and fish sections or in their manufactured products which includes tins, ready meals and sandwich fillings. I don't know what the figures are but I'm betting that MacDonalds falls by the wayside compared to the amount of animal products used in meal productions at home. They've had a VERY bad press over the years AND they deserve it but they aren't the arch villians here. They're merely a gnat in a wasps nest.

    I agree with all of that and think that there should be shops just for vegans, but I guess this will not happen until there is enough of a market for them to keep their business running by generating enough profit to make it sustainable.

    I pick on Mcdonalds for many reasons and disagree that they are merely a gnat in a wasps nest ! I would say that they are a wasps nest in a nest of wankers where money will alwaysbe more important than any moral issue,unless by bowing down to that issue on a public stage gets more customers,which really is still just about the money !!


    That is why I said a vegan takeaway would be the better option. A shop for purists run by purists. I for one respect when one sticks to their beliefs fully and does everything to support their talk.


    I would certainly eat at such a place as i have enjoyed many nice meals in vegan restaurants on the rare occassion that I have found them here in France.


    The problem is that such establishments need a good customer base to exist,yet good establishments are also needed to creat a good customer base so to pique peoples tastes and ideology.


    If there was a vegan-veggie take away on the style of a fish and chip shop and I could nip in and get a small portion of lightly salted brussel sprouts or a bag of roast parsnips I would love it :-) Throw in roastie potatoes and apple sauce too, yum yum

  • Quote

    Something like 90%+ of all the world's soya is used as animal feed -- I believe that most of the remainder goes to the Asian market.


    If you're worried about soya use, then it makes sense to cut out meat ;)

    I still dont buy that argument, yes a veg i agree that you people will be in good shape healthy not overweight, i get your stance on animal welfare, but the climate argument I dont totally agree with.


    sheep on the fells eat grass on wilderness that we would struggle to cultivate, often graze on bogs (carbon sinks) roadside verges, sheep dont eat any feed bulked up by soya for about roughly 6 months.


    Cattle on a few farms eat mainly silage, and to keep costs down if your a bright farmer you use rolled barley and wheat, also cattle arnt fed again for about six months on soya feed for about 6 months, i even new of one that bought old broken biscuits from nestle and old cakes from a bakery for his pigs.


    As a group of vegitarians i think the climate thing is on dodgy ground.


    Lentils.....mainly grown in India,

    Soya........south america, ,,,old rainforest clearance,

    chickpees...." "

    almond milk... ex rainforest again


    Could you live year round on veg products from the uk??


    I am thinking basicly potatoe, tomatoe,


    The uk has the one of the greenest way of farming in the world yet it gets the toughest time,


    I get you being a veg, but i still dont totally buy the climate argument.


    One of the greenest foods i recon would be rabbit adn pigeon they eat with abundance a lot of crops there "free range" and hardly eat man made feeds.

  • Just heard about veganuary.


    Why promote veganism in Uks most barren month for vegitarianism, if it was in say aug, or sept you peeps could eat.


    berries, pig nuts, hazlenuts, apples pears, fruit, peas, potatoes, beetroot, carrots, tomatoes, chilis, runner beans, broad beans, parsnips, cabbages, lettice, colliflower, turnips, cale, brocali, sweede,plums,


    instead promotion is on imported products in a month when mainly imported food can be eaten.


    When i was a kid, sheep and cattle were fed on, rolled wheat, or barley but you had to be careful with barley as it blew sheep up, also turnips sweedes, fodder beet, cale, mangold wurzels (alll grown in winter or back end) stored in a straw "pie" to stop them going off in the frost. and of course hay and silage and grasses.


    in fact any food not good enough for human consumption, ie it was starting to go rotten


    , feeds where bulked up with mollases or sugar beet pulp from the sugar beet factory (now closed).


    We were greener then than we are now.

  • The big food corps are simply exercising an opportunity to stick their grubby hands in the pockets of a new group of idiots.

    Vegans who seek out these products boost these corps powers and thus are helping the continuation of such poor planetary business models and are patently as apathetic and lazy as the general masses.

    If their products are of the standard of vegan cheese it'll be a one time sale to those who regularly buy their other rubbish.

    If you really believe in something and want respect for it at least have the common decency to do it properly.

    Yet again big business taking the p*as and most too blinkered to see it.

  • I just want people to stop harming animals.


    Yes, there are problems with globalisation etc. but socialism has always failed, and as such we work within the framework of what already exists - a capitalist society.


    I'd rather companies profit from cruelty free food, because they're not going away.


    It's the same as any other company; Tate and Lyle didn't close down at the end of the slave trade, Hugo Boss didn't collapse at the end of Nazi Germany -- but nobody considers those companies as being complicit in slavery or genocide any more.


    I'm pretty sure the animals wouldn't care where the food comes from, just so long as they're not the ones being enslaved, tortured and killed.

  • Its all about balance, currently in my opinion the vegan diet is being pushed towards a monoculture of deforestation high cultivation of "wild" areas and strains on reasources such as water use.


    Far to much vegan food relys on massive imports, coming from countries using a high amount of water and irrigation damming etc.


    Step to the uk model, food for animals on farms near me in "wilder" uncultivated areas only rely on imports of that be the case for about 6 months of the year.


    I am sick to death of vegans saying veganism is greener when in reality the picture is more compex.


    Yes go vegan
    yes grow your own

    an yes improve animal welfare.


    but dont wave the green card when veganism also helps put a strain on reasources around the world.

  • This has turned into one of those Veganism debates again,rather than the idea of vegan fast food.

    Tread carefully everyone and do not get too heated,as I have seen this subject cause site chaos before.


    Just saying :angel:

  • Whether it is food for vegans or food for omnivores, every big food company will do it's best to cut costs and maximise profits. Whatever is factory made will use the cost-to-profit ratio as it's main operating creed.


    If there is a fad for all the bright young things to toy with the idea of veganism, and profits can be made thereby, big business will follow the quid, regardless of any ethics and morality involved or implied.


    By all means have smaller vegan-specific shops that cater for genuine vegans who follow that philosophy, but don't be misled into thinking that all the vegan islands and vegan shelves springing up in the big stores means any kind of food revolution. They will only stay so long as they are profitable; they will run for maybe three months to check if the trade increases to a profitable level. If it doesn't they'll get dropped like Jack Shit overnight, and no more said.

  • Thr initial point of starting this thread is not so much the pro's and con's of vegan way of living, it was to point out the fact the the very thing that vegan life is set against, that being the intensive farming of animlas are being offered vegan foods from companies that are heavily involved in the very thing vegans claim to stand against, intensive animal farming, by buying vegan food from these outlets flies in the face of the very thing they believe is wrong. To me by buying vegan food from outlets that also sell food from intensively farmed animals is somewhat hypocritical, although by living a vegan way of eating, it is not the green clean machine it is made out to be.

    I heard the news on the radio last night, about the court case in Norwich, the guy who got sacked by the league against cruel sports of who were investing their pension funds in companies involved in animal testing, mmmm thats not a very ethical choice of investment especially form an animal rights group.

  • the very thing that vegan life is set against, that being the intensive farming of animlas

    Not quite -- veganism is against all animal use, intensive or otherwise.


    There's no clean money, so you cannot buy from any company that isn't involved in animal exploitation on some level -- even supermarkets have their meat and fish counters or sell wool sweaters and leather shoes.


    However, when you make an alternative purchase, you do create a demand and a profit for the alternatives -- for example, the KFC vegan burger is Quorn, and Quorn are increasing their range of vegan products. A couple of years ago the CEO made a statement, announcing that their longterm plan is to make everything vegan.


    By buying that product, you are supporting Quorn.


    So yes, on one level you support a business that's invested in animal agriculture, on another level you also support a business that's producing a range of vegan products.


    These companies are not going away, and as such it's about logic, not personal purity.

  • These companies are not going away, and as such it's about logic, not personal purity.

    I am pretty sure KFC produces a greater profit margin on these products than Quorn and continue to grow quicker till they or similar buyout the latter and continue the downhill slide.

    A logic sure to be frowned upon by the likes of Spock.

    Your either against all animal use or not.

    It appears the vast majority of practitionists of veganism are not prepared to go through the growing pains that other religions, philosophies suffered in their early days but rather want it given to them on a plate if you'll parcel the pun.

  • Your either against all animal use or not.

    It's a non-vegan world -- I don't use animal products, but have no control over other people using them.


    Like, I can't control what the delivery driver had for breakfast before he dropped off my amazon delivery just now - and as such I have no idea where his wages go or what shares he owns. Same with pretty much any supermarket chain, or any other store. I also can't stop Mark Zuckerberg from going hunting etc.


    It's like you're saying that, because you can't go live in a hut in the woods, foraging for nothing but fruit, then you may as well not bother.


    Everyone is complicit to some extent; no money is clean.

  • I dont so much care where folks buy their vegan food from if thats what they want, its their business and I guess offering the options in McHorribles or KFC may?? reduce overall the consumption of animal products through those chains but, I see the point Wizard is making that eating in those joints youre still supporting businesses that exploit and by their operation slaughter millions of animals just the same as supermarkets do


    I dont know what the perfect answer is,im not a vegan and only partially veggie and could never be one,ive tried to and failed.


    My main concern- especially being these large scale fast food chains- is theyre unlikely to be too fussed about where they acquire the vegan ingredients anymore than they are with meat products and will expect minimum cost maximum profit to apply so purchasing from cheapest global supply markets.


    Western vegan consumption has already reached such a growth rate that its made basic food stuffs like rice and quinoa unaffordable to the local populations who grow and rely on it to survive and so if fast food outlets increase this demand then prices and affordability in production areas are going to be an even bigger issue.


    If these companies intend expanding their vegan ranges to cater for customers needs then theyre going have to simultaneously be ethical about their sourcing of raw materials and set up production in suitable areas for domestic production and not deplete foreign markets.


    Its not really ethical eating foodstuffs to prevent animal suffering and then by doing so cause human suffering.


    Westerners often have this blinkered view about food. Theyll eat meat and not consider the suffering of animals because the meat comes in neat plastic display packs or a nicely dressed burger and so ive no doubt humans will quite smugly sit in a fast food joint and order a vegan meal without any thought of whether the person who grew the stuff can actually afford to eat it themselves or may actually be starving.


    Big food retailers dont give a shit and they'd rather we didnt think about the unpleasant sides of food production.

    While its a positive step and may move more people to vegan diets I think consumers need to be aware of where their food is coming from and make informed choices -vegan or omni- ,not just take things at face value.

    Sadly most consumers do it all the time. Happy to buy clothes or technology made in sweatshops, meat from animals farmed in awful conditions etc Vegan food needs the same considerations,just cuz its 'vegan' doesnt guarantee its been ethically produced.

  • I've always been torn on this one. Personally I find the idea of financially supporting companies like KFC abhorrent but on the other hand in todays world, I think this may be the way things have to go to make Veganism more mainstream.


    Even though I rarely eat them myself, i love that there's so many meat alternatives now for the people who want them. On the other hand i feel bad for the small ethical companies who supplied vegans with their food before all the multinationals got involved. Though I believe some of them are now working with the big supermarket chains..


    As a side note after being away for a year I'm blown away by how much vegan choice there now is. One thing I've noticed in the big supermarkets is how the veggie/vegan food now stands alongside the meat options from the same company whereas before it always had it's own separate section. Things are definitely changing fast.

  • Its been shockingly bad for years in France where vegetarians let alone vegans were very much frowned upon. I have seen a couple of vegan restaurants on my travels over the last year so it is changing here and if it can change here,there is much hope for the world.


    One must remember that this is the fois gras capital of the world !!!!!!

  • If the ingredients are vegan, and they only tested on rats to initially check if the product was safe, does that let them off?

    Or do they check this sort of stuff constantly on animals?

    Artificial B12 was initially used on animals before they gave it to humans....