The War Against The NHS

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  • I don't know how long this film will be available on YouTube before it is spotted and pulled. This is an important documentary and a warning about how much more we have been lied to than I thought and where the road we are being forced to travel. I urge you to give it some time. You'll need a couple of hours.

  • I think i saw this the other week. why we cant just sort the nhs by more funding and less private sector is nuts.


    When i fisrt started work on my pay packet it said what everything got tax, ni etc, they should really have a break down of what the nhs gets, and basicly it should be more, not less, say an nhs section on the pay packet (i know no one really gets pay packets anymore so as a youngster your not to bothered but somehow a pay slip should state where your money goess)


    Why the hell dont we just pay more for healthcare, what an extra 10 a month a fiver its a dam site cheaper than private insurance or health care.


    I was going to take out private health care, i got so disolusioned with the nhs, time and time again i find gps, utterly useless,


    last month i got a spell in my foot it went right in, there moust have been a bit still in it heeled over i went to nurse at local gp, young lass didnt do anything i asked for doctor he said its fine its healed over.


    I went again next day it wasnt right i argued with the arogent doctor (he s not well liked by anyone)


    ended up going to hospitable, the nurse there properly qualified in her 50s took me to a bed opened up my foot with a scaple found the end of the spell deep in my foot, it took about 5 mins to do and it was just starting to go septic, i caught it in good time if not it would have been a nightmare.


    so lets run through this. i saw two i guess low skilled young nurses on two days at the gp surgery,

    then the doctor barged in all arrogent and said it was ok,

    i went to the hospital, wassted a recptionists time she booked me in for an x ray that i didnt need,

    then finally i got the minor op done by a qualified nurse,


    so thats in total 7 members of staff to do a simple op that i suspect the nurses at the gp couldnt do, one used an i phone to look at my foot, and said it was fine ffs.



    So gps need to sort things out you get more done at hospitals, why is there no minor ops .


    Personally we should build satalite minor op hospitals, with qualified nurses for minor ops, then doctors in these hospitals actually doing stuff instead of just sat staring at a computor screen talking to you for 5 or ten mins, then sending you somewhere else.


    Id pay more tax fot the nhs, gladly if it meant it ran better than what happens above.

  • Really can't bring myself to watch the movie Marshlander... The NHS sucks quite enough energy, resources, time and money out of me.


    We all pay NI that is sucked into a system that increasingly finances the comfort of the elderly and demented without proper regard for the health needs of younger people.


    Younger people could finance some of their own health needs if permitted to pay into more democratic insurance schemes the amounts that are sucked into the NHS.


    This would absolutely mean that health insurance would run out in later years but without a magic money tree is a bit more realistic than funding the genetically gifted to live forever without contributing their assets towards the cost of supporting their resource hungry existence.


    Nothing about this is fair but there are brief little windows of clarity.

  • Thats selfish, my parents paid into a system that financed the nhs for there parents who had paid less than they did. So is that fair as any taxpayer your written off when you get older. ni contributions should go on your earnings maybe it does i never know, but if you earn more you pay more into the nhs, then we all demand the right for better healthcare.


    Also lets think about prevention as well, bloody junk food, alcoholism, ok smoking we cant all moan about the nhs if we are slowly killing ourselves can we,


    god knows where does the rights end if i break my kneck mountain biking is that fair i waste nhs money than a light smoker,


    I often thought top up was fair say a fiver or a tenner to see the doctor that would get rid of time wasters but what id a genuine timewaster did have something wrong with them.


    charge every single person who uses the nhs a nominal fee depending on income, finance it good from all of us, build better smaller hospitals in every town, for the growing towns, get rid of the businespeople, train new staff in each town with doctors, ward sisters, cleaners,


    Nurses used to clean make beds the lot as they did there training, this changed to a college like status and then they brought in nurses who can only do tiny jobs like draw blood check blood pressure etc,


    Doctors used to be on call in turns day and night, they did visits what the hell happened.


    The nhs needs finance and everyone should pay more, we need to keep it, i dread the thought of privatisation, higher premiums if i got cancer or any health issues whilist no decent income to finance it.

  • You have only to look at how poor folks in bad health try to cope in America, to see what we are headed towards. Plenty of features on YouTube about it, or read a few in-depths reports, if you want more information. It's scary.


    People bankrupt themselves trying to pay doctor bills, and then when they can't keep up payments on their home, or their rent, they are out on the streets. This is what Boris and Co. have in store for the UK, eventually, if they aren't stopped.

  • Population explosion happened.


    Consciousness raising happened.


    Crown immunity ended.


    Personal accountability and liabilty increased.....but only for health care workers.... It does not apply to service users who use their education and wits and daily mail minds to juice and drain the system which is why there aren't enough health care workers to meet their needs.... And indeed that is why nurses and paramedics now need higher education....and is why GPs need business managers.

  • You have only to look at how poor folks in bad health try to cope in America, to see what we are headed towards. Plenty of features on YouTube about it, or read a few in-depths reports, if you want more information. It's scary.


    People bankrupt themselves trying to pay doctor bills, and then when they can't keep up payments on their home, or their rent, they are out on the streets. This is what Boris and Co. have in store for the UK, eventually, if they aren't stopped.


    You have only to look at how poor folks in bad health try to cope in America, to see what we are headed towards. Plenty of features on YouTube about it, or read a few in-depths reports, if you want more information. It's scary.


    People bankrupt themselves trying to pay doctor bills, and then when they can't keep up payments on their home, or their rent, they are out on the streets. This is what Boris and Co. have in store for the UK, eventually, if they aren't stopped.

    That would be the extreme I guess.


    There are other possibilities.


    I would strongly encourage anyone who believes in the NHS to go get get involved and qualified to work as a care assistant or volunteer..... Your delusional idealisation of the NHS needs YOU on the ground and in the front line making it happen!

  • Gee:-


    It's understandable that you are confused about personal contributions towards the NHS.... This is England and our government's do not express clarity when they are on a winner.


    NHS funding is supposedly ring fenced from NI contributions... There is a point at which NI contributions become very low for higher earners so I'm not sure how to help clarify your confusion....


    There are also obvious NI breaks for the self employed and company directors.... But again.... Its all quite obfuscational..... I certainly agree that it would be preferable if these figures and percentages were properly qualified...

  • I have had occasion to use the NHS recently locally, and I have no delusions about it.

    The NHS is deliberately starved of money and resources by the present government because this is their agenda. If something is starved of resources, it under-performs. Then the government can say it's not working, we need privatisation. All part of the plan to privatise the NHS, I'm afraid.


    This has been happening for some time, beginning way back when they started to use managers in a big way. Managers with a background in commerce and industry, with plenty of opportunities to spend big, receive back-handers, and put up the cost of running the NHS very dramatically. The Tories laid the plans for this in the 1990's, the New Labour Blair government carried on with those plans, and the following governments, including the present government, did likewise. That's why we are where we are today.

  • And what is the outcome?


    Do you want to wipe their arses simply because they find it easier and quicker and would break your back to contort around their laziness and wilfull non contribution.


    Like it or not sociological studies of times past have been exploited by the "middle classes" who pay smaller percentages of income towards the NHS because they just have to win.


    Reality on the ground is that lots of patients who can do for themselves will not do what they can because it's a strain.... Because they have been over indulged and expect much more and do not value their independence ... That means that some overworked mug has to do it for them..... That overworked mug wants to be paid and valued.


    Slave, cunt or sucker it just is not as simple as you would like to project...


    And anyone stuck in the front line of dealing with the cuntish traits of humans will tell you the same.


    Do you want to have an opinion or do you want to get involved.... Because there is much confusion about this....


    You know.... Builders take cash payments and billionaires avoid contributing fully and everyone has an opinion but actually they just want to opt out of paying toward having their arses wiped!

  • Fuck yeah.... And much, much more....


    Hospitals are a dumping ground... Psychotics that might require the care of two police officers will routinely be assigned one 9th of a nurses time.


    Massive hospitals will regularly have fewer than 4 restraint trained security guards on duty and hospital staff are regularly subjected to verbal and physical violence....


    Should be police permanently in every hospital.... But apparently one 9th of a registered nurse is sufficient to deal with the abuse.


    It's a fucking joke.... And daily mail folk can't even agree to pay a multitasking, shat on, abused ward nurse more than £15 per hour.


    There is little to non existent funding for the skillsets that gee is interested in.


    All of my colleagues are expected to complete online training without pay and it is legal for the NHS to expect this.


    The unions are worthless because they are populated by self interested arseholes making an easy buck off of a predominantly feminine and altruistic PROFESSION that regularly does free overtime because some see it as charity work.


    It's totally fucking stupid that new registered nurses who are in debt to experience this abuse are conditioned by Florence's from a bygone and privelidged era to accept this crap.



    No fucker wants to contribute to the NHS so no fucker deserves it.


    Sod em.


    An early death is noble

  • I'll try for level ground here.... But must once again pre express my bias: like about a million others I work in the modern NHS.


    The NHS does nothing to endear its lower level workers.


    As a consumer of NHS services I get nothing from it financially.


    As a health care worker I would probably benefit from the dire and extreme situation that you describe....


    However.... Your interpretation is extreme and unlikely....


    Don't get me wrong.... From the selfish point of view my healthcare compassion is all gone.... THE NHS treats its workers like cunts the American system is slightly more favourable to the workers... Im burned out on people acting incapable as soon as a nurse appears and competing for attention.... Genuine need is tiny in this sick game....... So I'd rather be paid a bit more to indulge whatever the fuck possesses people to be so pathetic and treat nurses like servile cunts.


    The NHS is a very shit employer that pays very low wages and does not support its staff. It runs for the benefit of managers and administrators and for fucking idiots. It has become an exploitative industry that undermines health promotion in favour of daily mail profiteers and scammers.


    The sooner it is gone the better for me

  • But don't you know that it was never like that? At one time the NHS was well-respected, people were generally better-educated in using it, and the rubbish people (attention-seeking patients) that you are complaining about were pretty rare, and were summarily dealt with, as things were not so PC in those days.

    (I well remember a persistent attention-seeking relative who was given two nights in a mental hospital, and was then taken aside and given the choice of behaving himself or getting three months in a mental ward if he continued in his behaviour. It cured him instantly).


    All this cheap-skate running of the NHS has only come about since they put the commercial-minded managers in charge. Such people thrive on using cheap labour and making their figures look good. They don't give a damn about the workers themselves, any more than a gang-master does.

    Like so many institutions and agencies and companies in this country, the NHS has the wrong kind of people in charge, because this is the outcome of the current political system, and those that went before it.

  • I hear and see what you are saying.... Its important that I demonstrate that Keith.... I really, genuinely believe that I do see it.


    I want it to be differential to my interpretation.... I really, really want that but I cannot find it in my actuality.


    I don't want to work for most of the people I encounter... Its pathetic that many act so pathetic but you will have only my word for it....


    I can't change that. My colleagues and I are cheaply breaking our backs for pathetic pretenders and I see only one way forward.


    Compassion fatigue is a real thing and there is something very wrong in the head with a good number of patients I encounter who simply can't be bothered to do anything that they can manipulate a nurse into doing for them.


    My back, my joints, my energy and stupid unassertive management.


    I don't want the NHS succubus.

  • I don't just have your word for it. I have a friend who works in the local A&E, and what they have to put up with, particularly at weekends and holidays when all the doctor surgeries are closed, is enough to put off anyone helping people for life.

    Over half the 'patients' at weekends are drugged or drunken people who have been in fights or on a downer, or people off the streets seeking a warm place, or regular and persistent attention-seekers who are well-known. There are the helpless crowd who want to be seen right away because they are more important than anyone else, and imagine they are dying, there are the travelling crowd who seek attention for injuries from brawls, and thrust themselves to the head of any queue, where they and often their kids misbehave until they are seen quickly and gotten out of the way, and in among this morass of almost sub-humanity are a relatively few ordinary people who need help. Being a security guard at weekends is an unenviable task at this place, and I should imagine at yours.

    It doesn't need a couple of coppers either. In the short-term it would need a squad of soldiers, handy with the butt of a rifle, to keep much of this shower in order.

  • Fascinating discussion so far. As usual, zendaze has taken me to unexpected territory, for which insight many thanks. My experience of the NHS has mostly been good. Fifty years ago I spent three months in an NHS hospital (I didn't know there were any other kinds at that age) and received good care for a difficult to diagnose illness. These days I have treatment for some ongoing conditions and, while the treatment is good, check-ups tend to be further apart than I would like. For example, I was invited to a respiratory and sleep clinic annual check at a new out-patient facility. Unfortunately I knew I was going to out of the country for the appointment and when I called to change it the first one available was five months later! Apart from that I stay clear of doctors and nurses as much as possible. My personal experience of GP services is that they generally pretty good. It is after that that things sometimes begin to fall over for the patient.


    One of my kids is a dentist in the USA. He sees all kinds of failings with the system there. Every few months he gives a couple of days of free labour and he says the queues for people who have not been able to afford insurance go out of the building and round the block. At these times he and his fellows work very long days. I cannot get an NHS dentist in the nearest town, there isn't one. I tend to put off treatment. The problem I see comes back to Mrs. Thatcher's idea that there is no such thing as "society". My parents experienced life before the NHS and knew how to use it and appreciate it. They understood the alternative and that losers would die, usually in great discomfort. Where "society" organises its priorities to give something I see the receiver having reciprocal responsibilities to make best use of the gift. Somewhere there is the disconnect that zendaze experiences daily. The problem of a something-for-nothing culture appears ingrained. The state as provider of services has been grossly and wilfully misinterpreted. Somehow there has to be a way out of this rotten situation. I don't see the solution being to kill off our health service, allow the vultures in to pick the bones clean and then hike the prices out of the reach of the people for whatever replaces it. That amounts almost to genocide.


    Somehow, we need to get to an understanding that there is such a thing as society and that members of that society have a responsibility to use available resources with wisdom. We may be too late, but many more people are at least discussing the primary resources the planet provides. I can't help thinking that as with all things, including the NHS and the people who have the skills to help us through tough times, we need to take more personal responsibility, consume less and make the best use of what we have. I would hate to see us continue along the path towards an ideologically imposed American health-care system. It fails far too many people.

  • I’m watching the doc marshy posted war on the NHS.... worrying... Shocking even.
    After all that mud slinging Corbyn and they Labour Party had spouted during the election run up. I’m disgusted to learn that Labour are much to blame for some demise and privatisation of elements within the NHS. Then Thatcher came along and covertly showed the government how to do it stealthily. Tony Blair and his government tore up the rule book and fked the NHS and us the electorate with secret/fraudulent plans PFI, United Health and today with McKinsey and Company management consultants. Care Uk, Virgin, BUPA all have contracts with the NHS. None of our elected governments have clean hands.


    But this brought something up I had read on here about “those who smoke, drink excessively etc” should/could be denied specialist healthcare, if the reason they need health care is as a result of self-indulgence. Now this is a very fine line, but it got me thinking. My dad smoked and drank excessively for most of his life. 5 years before he died, his GP told him that the damage/I’ll health he was suffering was due to or not helped by smoking/drinking etc. My dad eventually cutdown and then stopped both smoking and drinking alcohol. But it was too late. In his final years he endured reduced mobility through lack of available oxygen. His general health deteriorated, due to a combination of factors possibly brought on by or contributed to from a life of self indulgence inc poor diet. I know my dad was not prepared to fight a long lingering death. But his health eventually effected not only the care the NHS had to provide for, but also time, attention and personal care his family we’re duty bound to cover for.


    If I had sat my dad down (when he was fit) and put it to him that smokers, drinkers should be denied NHS “specialist health care” I’m not sure what his reaction to the question asked would have been. Half of me thinks he would “expect” the best care possible, as he had paid into the NI system. But I wouldn’t be shocked if he would support removing care elements inc “extra care” eg free oxygen bottle deliveries, GP/nurse home visits.


    So 25 years on. Would I support removing some care or charging either the individuals, the tobacco companies for extra care, or burden our government with continued funding of the NHS for the care of those damaged through self-indulgence, because the governments took revenue (Tax) while the media promoted smoking and drink industries.

    For now I would favour further Tax funding for the NHS, but remove it for millennials on reaching maturity. They had the education and restricted advertising in place.


    what’s your view?

  • My view is that anything likely to have a very bad long-term effect on public health should be thoroughly investigated for those effects before it gets onto the market; and if proven to have such long-term ill effects, should be rationed.....

  • Thats a tough call many good points, but look at minenials the biggest killer for them is going to be obesety probably overtaking smoking related deaths.


    Maybe why not have assesments every year you pay your nhs fee every year get a health cheack thats the dogs nadgers, after all prevention is better than cure, you dont turn up (because your afriad of doing so) you lose your nhs status till you do.


    You get put on health plans, diets, and smoking drug and alchol programs this in the long run helps people get healthy.


    thus less people in hospitals ill or very ill just slightly ill and mended easier and quicker.


    more screening more scans, and again we all pay more.


    All most like a fitness club and a differant way of thinking instead of going to moan and be ill and die, maybe more help people sort themsives out, but if you dont go to checkups your not in.

  • A good plan, but millions wouldn't bother.

    Then they'd moan when they got ill and got no nhs treatment, so would vote in whatever party promised them the 'eat anything, do anything, get ill and we'll look after you' plan.

  • Let's all face it the NHS is fucked, the cash given is swallowed up and disappears every year, the Tories want rid its costing too much and they are all in BUPA, the votes have been counted,Boris has 5yrs to move it,piece by piece into private ownership.RIP NHS

  • gee if we had to treat our eligibility to state health care like we do our vehicles and the annual MOT. I think many of us would further consider the consequences of our actions and responsibilities


    Obesity is said to become the next big killer? Weight gain is very much down to individuals sticking excess calories in their own mouths. I’m not saying that other factors can’t play a part in weight gain. Some biological, genetic factors and mental health may well be a cause. But for the many. It’s pure greed, laziness and or limited self control that results in weight increase/obesity.
    Blaming weight gain on medical reasons is more often than not just denial. Fat shaming generally has a negative effect and treating obesity like a illegal heroin addiction may be the way forward.


    Gender reassignment, boob job corrections and cosmetic surgery for beauty sake should be considered on merit of necessity and value for money.
    But Then the equal ops card gets played and we look again at pc parameters.


    Rumpusmany. I don’t think there is “a”answer for such a all encompassing service. Either fund the fk out of it or streamline it for those eligible.

  • Treat the nhs like a national health club, we are all in we all pay in and we have a responsibility for it and ourselves.


    Give it charity like status as well theres always good money made for macmillan, air amb, mind, etc etc.


    Thus the people who work in it (esp at the top) would hopefully not treat it as a gravy train, and the people using it would respect it more.


    Its the term "service" like its untapped free like water that i think is its undoing


    Call it the national health "club" it gives a feeling of respect exclusivety in that oh hell better pay my anual fee to the national health club or i might be ill.


    A many teared "club" we all pay in,


    Its actuallt a better cheaper plan in the long term, imagine fitness programs diets gyms all part of it, they have got to be cheaper than going for ops in hospital paying surgeons to put gastric bands in or remove legs blood clots etc, smokers give them a new additction gym membership.


    Diferant ethos diferant cures,


    Prevention is better than cure.


    Then real ops could be done , cancer, knackered joints, hearts,


    We would prob find mental health improved as we all were part of a new fitness regime in the country. Saving millions.



    What gets me i have a personal interest in the nhs. Id love to know my health status do i have anything sinister lurking in my lungs heart bones bowels prostrate, instead of that doubt offer screening id pay shed loads more for that, and thus id cost less as it would get anything cured quicker not wasting time going to the sodding screen and clock watching gp.


    My knees arnt brilliant they arnt going to get any better i went three times two years ago only to be give an exersize book, total waste of time they crunch and go on but i make do but of they had been optd on maybe they wont mess up in years to come, ie keyhole surg.


    Basicly if the health service was more liek a co op being part of pharmasists, shops selling healthy food, gyms etc, all putting money back into a co op.


    Just big massive health centers we were all part of.