Another dead vegan baby.

Welcome to UKHIppy2764@2x.png

UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • Fuckin disgraceful. They should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Veganism should be a choice, not fuckin imposed on people, especially small children. Proof positive that it's not natures way in my opinion....

  • By no means would I seek to deny that the parents have committed the most terrible wrong against their children, but I can't help thinking that there are countries in the world where people aren't afraid to contact the doctor when they need advice over a health issue. If I had to count every penny before I even thought of phoning the doctor I might put it off too. Free health checks and regular support might have picked up that there was a problem before it became too late.


    This is a systematic problem as well as a crime against innocent lives.

  • Veganism should be a choice, not fuckin imposed on people, especially small children.

    There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people who have grown up vegan without any health issues.


    Plenty of child abuse and neglect happens within meat eating families; it isn't the diet, it's the ignorance and poor knowledge of the parents.


    All diets are 'imposed' on children -- if you bring your child up to eat animals, you're still imposing your values on them.

  • There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people who have grown up vegan without any health issues.


    Plenty of child abuse and neglect happens within meat eating families; it isn't the diet, it's the ignorance and poor knowledge of the parents.


    All diets are 'imposed' on children -- if you bring your child up to eat animals, you're still imposing your values on them.

    exactly everything is imposed on a baby ?

  • There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people who have grown up vegan without any health issues.


    Plenty of child abuse and neglect happens within meat eating families; it isn't the diet, it's the ignorance and poor knowledge of the parents.


    All diets are 'imposed' on children -- if you bring your child up to eat animals, you're still imposing your values on them.

    Quite true, but no child ever died from an omnivorous diet. This child was malnourished, as were the 3 other children in their care. If you want to follow a vegan diet, crack on its your choice but don't fuck around with the lives of your kids. Lots of videos recently from vegans that suggest its possibly not the best way forward, why inflict this on your babies?

    Just for the record, I don't care what diet anyone chooses to adhere to, as long as they choose it personally & don't try to force it on anyone else. Don't agree with Jehovas witnesses either who deny their children medical care & watch them die for want of simple procedures. If they want to live that way fine, but as a parent you're supposed to protect/nurture your offspring at any cost...

  • By no means would I seek to deny that the parents have committed the most terrible wrong against their children, but I can't help thinking that there are countries in the world where people aren't afraid to contact the doctor when they need advice over a health issue. If I had to count every penny before I even thought of phoning the doctor I might put it off too. Free health checks and regular support might have picked up that there was a problem before it became too late.


    This is a systematic problem as well as a crime against innocent lives.

    This didn't happen in some poor ass 3rd world dictatorship tho did it? Surely the parents know how to feed their kids, fucks sake they had 4!

    Yes, medical checks should have been done & someone dropped the ball somewhere but that still doesn't exonerate these 2nd rate parents....

  • This didn't happen in some poor ass 3rd world dictatorship tho did it? Surely the parents know how to feed their kids, fucks sake they had 4!

    Yes, medical checks should have been done & someone dropped the ball somewhere but that still doesn't exonerate these 2nd rate parents..

    Exactly it was the parents not the diet they was following , loads of parents neglect , starve or mistreat there kids , it was up to the parents to look after there kids plenty of cunts out there and some of them even eat meat

  • Don't doubt it. Thing is, apparently it was the lack of protein etc that was the problem. The fact that the baby only weighed the same as a healthy 7mth old must point to something missing in the diet. If the bairn had grown up & decided to be vegan, wouldn't have any issue with that. General opinion seems to be the diet was the problem. Raw fruit & veg was mentioned. No good for a tot of that age really is it?....

  • Quite true, but no child ever died from an omnivorous diet.

    Every nutrient a human needs can be found in a vegan diet.


    The problem is, that a lot of people aren't educated about certain nutrients and why they are more prevalent in animal based foods -- for example, vitamin D3 is hard to get from vegan sources, as is vitamin B12, but it's not actually difficult once you're educated.


    Plenty of parents bring their kids up eating fatty meats, junk food, sugar, carbonated drinks, caffeine, tartrazine based food colouring and even alcohol. Sure they're criticised, but the criticism isn't used to attack an entire lifestyle.


    Kids do die from meat consumption -- sometimes in the long term, and sometimes sonner, but their lifestyle's aren't questioned because it's considered mainstream. If we lived in a mostly vegan world, and a child died from meat, I'm pretty sure the outrage would be the other way around.


    Manchester mum fed takeaways to dying obese child


    Boy, 10, left paralysed and unable to talk after contaminated Lidl burger dies


    Child dies after eating chicken meat

  • So, 2 cases of contaminated meat & one mother who was quite obviously a fuckin danger to her child whatever the diet, hardly an argument against meat is it? ...

  • In the UK, the NHS has a lot of good advice about bringing up a child on a vegan diet: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/…egetarian-vegan-children/

    In the States perhaps this sort of authoritative information isn't available, but they have plenty of vegan web sites with the same sort of advice, so I think maybe gross neglect or lack of intelligence had more to do with it. Bringing up kids successfully on a proper vegan diet needs considerable dietary knowledge and attention to detail, which obviously these folks didn't have. I do wonder if these folk were part of some kind of vegan far-out religious sect.


    Sadly, some folks think of veganism only from the ethical point of view.

    "If I'm doing the correct ethical thing, nothing can possibly go wrong, can it?" Well, certainly it bloody well can, as most of us on here are very well aware.


    With hundreds of thousands if not millions of years of a fire-cooked diet behind us, very few of us could live on a diet of raw fruit and vegetables for any length of time, least of all babies and children. If anyone doubts this, go try it. Like I did as a young guy interested in trying different diets. Working outside in the winter, eating a raw food diet.... Just couldn't wait to get back to a nice salad with a few nuts after a freezing wintry day in the parks department....

  • So, 2 cases of contaminated meat & one mother who was quite obviously a fuckin danger to her child whatever the diet, hardly an argument against meat is it? ...

    My point is that, if any child dies or suffers any ill health for any reason related to diet, you don't get a whole lobby of naysayers using it as evidence how we should all eat a certain way.


    However, in the UK alone there are 600 thousand vegans (not sure about Aus), so it stands to reason that a percentage of them will be arseholes, and they will probably be more newsworthy just for having an unconventional lifestyle.


    People feed their kids all kinds of crap -- and while there may not be immediate consequences, what you feed a child during their formative years could have a damaging effect in the long term.


    Nobody uses language like "imposing" when someone gives their kids sweets or cakes -- but we all know that sugar is harmful -- many parents would actually think it ridiculous to never give a child sweets.


    It's easier to have kids than it is to drive a car --- and we all know how many nutcases are on the roads. This just strengthens my opinion that people should be trained in childcare before they're allowed to breed.

  • I'm not Vegan and I couldnt live on a vegan diet, I was vegetarian for a long while but in the end no matter what my body needed what that couldnt provide even withthe B12 and D3 supplements, my health bloomed right back when I went back to having a bit of meat every so often which still is the case. I'm mostly vegetarian but need a top up every so often,. For parents to be accused of imposing their diet on their kids is bit hypocritical every parent feeds their kids, well, feed can be pejorative. It's like religion, if parents are religious they are going to bring their kids up within religion then they will as likely to choose later on wether they stay with it or not.


    Vegan parents will bring up their kids vegan as it's their beliefs form moral and ethical views. Round where I'm parked up, near east coast sea side towns trust me, there is a whole raft of people who wouldnt know a good diet if it was delivered on a plate, maybe a lot ios down to wether they can afford it, but eating healthy is nowhere as expensive as some make out, but there is a proper obesity problem round here, when I go to do a food shop, well, you cant help seeing it, the A typical fat families and you ought to see what they let their kids have and the size of their kids, that could be said to be imposing a diet on their kids, but they dont know any different, lack of educastion is a problem. Wwhen I see a 7-8 year old kid wobbling along who obviously weighs more than I do and is stuffing its face with all sorts of horrors, well couldnt that be said to be a crime, a diet like that is certainly bringing on long term health issues and another burden on the NHS. You would like to think parent's would at least go the extra 10 miles to ensure a diet like Veganism they are feeding their kids would at least have some common sense to make sure health checks are done and it's pretty darn obvious when a kid isnt well. Putting a baby form birth onwards on a vegan diet is the parents choice but it becomes a crime and abusing their position as parents when they do not heed warning signs when something is obviously wrong.

  • While rational thought for me would be to have a balanced diet, this would include meat, fish, dairy, i would totally get why some families would be vegan, infact some cultures are vegan and they arnt all dying,


    To make a broad sweeping statement that vegans are bad for their kids is not really justified, but if your older child wanted to eat meat would you as a parent deny that freedom? say at school


    I totally get the fact that some parents want shooting, when they are obese, and decide to make there kids obese, i know of one who the parent was obese and had to loose weight because he has a blod clot and diabetes, all through eating junk food and pints of cola, and he used to shove this in his kids face, ie deserts chocaltes sweets.


    Maybe we as a society need more education on nutrician i despair when i see low income or no income families in the supermarket, getting there kids three pot noodles not as a treat it looked likde there tea, while he got cans of beer.


    My local super bascily is stacked sky high with alcohol and junk food,and sugary drinks its a fringe town, a lot of new estates with social housing, they seem to buy junk food or go to the pizza place, if you travel a further 5 miles down the road the same co op sells healthier food i was stunned when i was working in that town.


    My nearest coop did start off about 5 10 years ago with good healthy food but i noticed no one ate it it ended up in the bins, even when it was reduced, i couldnt believe it you used to see bread that you slice for 10 or 20 p but no one bought them, always in the bin, so i guess that supermarket caters for its customers needs. beer, lager, strong cider, big bags of crisps, pot noodles, ready meals, chips. etc.


    go to the other place, avocados, fresh veg, ready meals consisting of risotto, organic sections,


    The diffarence was unbelieveable

  • Vegan kids, fat kids, anorexic kids, it's all a long since ceased to be laughable joke caused by parents unfit to carry that title.

    Mistreat a dog and potentially be prosecuted and banned from having them though a law far too seldom exercised. Do the same to a child and there's nothing to stop them breeding more potential trash.

    The human race has become an embarrassment to the planet.

  • Like Gee mentioned so much more nutritional education is needed from doctors and schools and the lies need to stop. The lies being told by the agriculture industry through advertising to line their own pockets are similar in my opinion to what the cigarette industry did years ago.

  • Sorry emmer i dont think the whole blame lies on the agricuture industry ie farmers always get bad press and uk farmers produce some of the best food in the world despite our crap wet unpredictable climate.


    Its more like supermarkets and the food processing/manufacturing industry, in fact most processed foods if not done properly have so much bulking agents in them its untrue. be they meat or vegan, there s new now of quorn products being bulked up with all sorts of junk basicly.


    Is the rise of convenience food i m guilty of buying processed crap as much as the next person, i do a manual job and my genetics are lucky in that i never seem to put weight on whatever i eat, but as i get older i try to eat a bit healthier avoiding take aways.


    The only way that truy works is either banning certain foods or taxing them, its worked with smoking and i believe the sugar tax, i used to like the odd choc bar or doughnut, but i hardly eat choc bars now i got so sick of the dam things getting smaller and the packaging staying the same ive kind of binned them off. Maybe thats done me good who knows.

  • The hand wringing bleeding heart libtard idiots who appear to think they're in charge need to mind their own business and let good old evolution thin out the crap. It proved itself pretty competent for a good few milennia till tossers started interfering.

  • Quote from Paul

    Every nutrient a human needs can be found in a vegan diet.The problem is, that a lot of people aren't educated about certain nutrients and why they are more prevalent in animal based foods -- for example, vitamin D3 is hard to get from vegan sources, as is vitamin B12, but it's not actually difficult once you're educated.

    Ok, tell us how.

  • http://www.second-opinions.co.…d_abuse.html#.XgKvGkczbIV

    I looked at the link from the NHS. What an outdated and dangerous piece of disinformation.

    The NHS information is based on nutritional advice from qualified doctors and nutritionists, and does emphasise the care needed in following a vegan diet, especially with children. If you think it is 'dangerous and outdated', perhaps you would like to quote opposing nutritional views from equally qualified people, rather than an emotive article which gives no nutritional advice?

  • Ok, tell us how.

    Naturally B12 is produced by bacteria that occurs on vegetation -- but with the quality of today's soils, a lot of livestock is supplemented, which is how it filters through to humans.

    Plus most people wash their vegetables to clean off pesticides, and as such the B12 is further removed.

    Therefore, cutting out the middleman (the animals) and supplementing directly, or through consuming fortified foods (or earthy organic vegetables) is the best way to ensure adequate amounts.


    Human beings are naturally from warm climates, and vitamin D3 is produced in our bodies when we have adequate sunlight. It occurs more naturally in animals that spend a lot of time outdoors, thus making it easier to get into the food supply through meat consumption.


    So, if you're living in a warm climate you'll probably get all the D3 you need from being outdoors, but if you don't then it may have to come from fortified foods - but there are arguments that D2 and D3 do the same thing anyway.

    Deficiencies in both of these vitamins is rife in both meat eaters and non meat eaters, but vegans typically tend to be more educated about them.

  • So, 2 cases of contaminated meat & one mother who was quite obviously a fuckin danger to her child whatever the diet, hardly an argument against meat is it? ...

    One might say the same for your argument against excluding meat ...

    This didn't happen in some poor ass 3rd world dictatorship tho did it? Surely the parents know how to feed their kids, fucks sake they had 4!

    Yes, medical checks should have been done & someone dropped the ball somewhere but that still doesn't exonerate these 2nd rate parents....

    Sorry Bb67, I don't follow the logic of this argument. Getting pregnant and bearing children is much, much easier than caring for them once they have miraculously arrived. We all know that parenting is not easy and involves often exhausting slog. If you re-read the comment to which you are replying I am not seeking to exonerate the parents who in this case were very clearly not well enough equipped to be actual parents to their poor kids beyond just providing the egg and sperm. Did these people live in the middle of a desert with no near neighbours? Someone, somewhere must have noticed something was wrong while there was still time to act. Yes, the parents must bear the full responsibility for their laziness or wilful neglect, but there's a reason we have evolved to live in communities.

  • Quote

    Therefore, cutting out the middleman (the animals) and supplementing directly, or through consuming fortified foods (or earthy organic vegetables) is the best way to ensure adequate amounts

    Hmm I dont no if i entirly agree there paul, or i guess on the argument maybe slightly off topic, that vegan is beter for the environment than meat production.


    I am going off at a tangent here but bear with me,


    Wearing the hat of an ex farmer or a man growing up from that bacground, certainly sheep were the best animals at providing nutrients into grassland in that they lived on the moors ate all sorts off stuff branches off trees, grass on the verges, heather, basicly anything and everything, when they are gathered into the intakes or inbyes they provide nutrients and trace elements into land and when brought in for lambing this hay/straw. compost manure mix is then spread on land provding humus, (no the stuf in supermarkets) . Sheep are better than cattle as a greener nutrient collector, i mean could we devolop a machine that ate all day converting nutrients to compost and a building block for grassland.


    Cattle are simular, they again produce manure but have to on the whole be wintered in the sheds, again converting rough pasture and grassland that isnt the best land for growing cerials or vertainly tougher to cultivate.


    Although i hate to agree that cattle possibly produce a heavier carbon footprint, but look at this flow chart

    Image result for cattle and grass flow chart





    So back on topic nutrients trace elements, yes they could be mined or added to the soil but year on year of cerial production to meet demands removes nutrients and nitrates, essential for cerial vegan diet.


    Growing up on a farm a man once did a survey and the best field on the farm with the most trace elements and nutrients was the one that had the most manure spread on it.


    Granted i guess some nutrients could be formed by composting creating a "vegan manure" and often we miss a trick not using human wadte but there has been problems over the years with ecoli a stephloch and all sorts in the human waste spread on say lettice of tomatoes, if human could be used safely and effectivly ni on impossible due to the shite we put in our bodies some of the best results would be achieved as we extreete and wee a lot off good stuff wasted everyday.


    I n recent years i defo have the conclusion we need a balanced died be it meat or vegan.


    The bigger picture is the land its a living breathing thing hungry for nutients to ingest and work and pass on to us either by a animal or by a plant, and plants will struggle to grow in this sodden land we have at the moment,


    Land also needs to lie fallow now and again in my opinion of cerial use, its cultivated year on year with no break


    Hope this helps i dont judge either vegan or heavy meat eaters you get two polar opposite opinions but the weird thing is the vegans help reduce demand that is required for the heavy meat eaters, almost like a ying and yang.

  • For vegan to be effective we would need gm crops on a scale never seen before, i mean if grass was edible by humans and high nutrient calorific and harvested by machine we would be able to eat that and its the greenest simplest form of crop that will grow anywhere and at most climates with little or no cultivation required.


    thus in the vegan utopia would animal then be fenced out of valuble crop land and reguarded as a pest?

  • There's a lot to quote there, and I don't have time, but it's not so much about carbon footprint than it is about methane footprint, which is a hell of a lot more damaging than carbon.


    But livestock is very much supplemented with B12 (and other things).

    References from the UK, Aus and beyond...

    https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/li…ficiency-sheep-and-cattle


    https://www.mla.com.au/researc…inishing/supplementation/


    https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Ca…ts-Vitamins/products/277/


    https://publications.parliamen…cmagric/233/233app30.htm/


    https://www.nadis.org.uk/disea…ent-deficiency-in-cattle/


    https://www.farmhealthonline.c…seases/cobalt-deficiency/

  • The NHS information is based on nutritional advice from qualified doctors and nutritionists, and does emphasise the care needed in following a vegan diet, especially with children. If you think it is 'dangerous and outdated', perhaps you would like to quote opposing nutritional views from equally qualified people, rather than an emotive article which gives no nutritional advice?

    While the science of nutrition has been around for a while, it has for the most part been on the periphery of medicine. It is only in the last few years nutrition has become centre stage.

    The NHS site recommends breakfast cereals as source of B12. You pay for air when you buy breakfast cereals. Total rip off. This is money that could be spent on real food. Yoghurts and milk alternatives are also recommended. Only if they are fortified do they contain B12. Would . I am not sure I would call these real food. I would also question the bio-availability of such "foods". The mention of minimizing salt for all kids is completely wrong. Regular blood pressure tests for all kids should happen. For those showing high blood pressure or with biological parents who had high blood pressure, then minimizing salt consumption should be encouraged, not for kids with low blood pressure like I had and still have.

  • cereals are a total rip off as a kid i about lived on the sodding things, always hungry, then get to school and your starving, like most kids into tuck shop crisps chocs, sugary drinks, then now thats prob why we were all little shits, hyper active bouncing off the walls, then more crap for school dinners chips battered rubbish i tried the healthy canteen but lettice didnt really cut it.


    If id known what i know now id have had porrige for beakfast every morning with vitamin pills or fruit .


    Cereals were a con but replaced a fried breakfast of my grandads generation, which saturated fat proved to be a killer as there generation had heart attacks etc.


    In farming when they used horses they fed them on oats, that must have been for a reason ie oats must have tons of energy and power stored in them.

  • As long as there are giant food processing corporations and huge pharmaceutical companies there's no chance of a healthy diet for the masses who let's be honest are ignorant by choice due to their habit of being glued to their idiot screens waiting for orders instead of seeking what they need from available sources.

    Veganism, liberalism, pacifism at al, they're all just religions as useless as the current ones.

    If we don't achieve the ability to get off planet soon then a cull is the only real fix. Probably best done anyway.