How nice to be in England

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  • How nice to be in England now that Brexits near, I stayed up late with my can of beer and dreamt I slept with Boudicca.


    It looks surprisingly calm out in the villages. No doom and gloom. No looted shops, burning cars.


    It took 3 years to take the people’s wishes seriously. Now the work begins.
    Looking out of the bus windows on this mornings drive, I saw once again the true beauty of the UK.
    A Country snatched from the jaws of a growing militarised EU empire.
    From the flood plains in the Fenlands, to the mountains of Wales and Scotland, and the hidden gems tucked away in woodlands. It’s always felt like home to me and a great place to make camp.


    Will a growing unity in a Reform Party help shape the UK and pressure the Tories to deliver a Brexit true to its name. Taking back our fishing waters, safeguarding our worldwide trade potential. Only time will tell. :whistle:


    Any positive views you want to share feel free to post them. :)

  • It's stopped raining for the time being and the suns out and surprise surprise the world hasn't come to an end and one can just hope that we've a better future for this country but at the same time we must not forget climate change.


    Religion and politics are the two biggest fuckups ever devised and turn decent loving folk into whining subsurvient tossers who just want more. I just want a unicorn.

  • I've nothing positive to say about a tory government being elected.


    It is though a lesser evil with regard to respecting the result of the democratic vote in favour of brexit.


    I reckon Corbyn should stick with it.... Probably just disrespect for brexit that lost Labour votes... He is about as left as we are likely to see.

  • I've nothing positive to say about a tory government being elected.

    Me neither. It can only mean worse living conditions for the underclass, with growing American capitalist pharma tentacles throttling the NHS, and a degradation of food production services to American standards. A continuation of the process that sees money filtering ever upwards to the richest from the poorest.


    But Britain itself, as a physical country, remains unchanged for now. Nothing in it is aware that there has even been an election, apart from some - most? - of the humans who inhabit it. There are still plenty of green areas, still wonderful lakes and fascinating mountains; it is still a green and pleasant land. None of that can be changed by an election result, so continue to enjoy it, while you can.


    I don't think for a moment that Johnson will get a good deal on Brexit, because anything approaching a good deal is going to have strings attached. Free trade also means free movement of people, and that is something all the Brexit voters have just voted against. For very many of them, it is the very thing which made them vote for Brexit in the first place. Corbyn's Brexit deal would have included both free trade and free movement, so for many it was just another reason not to vote for him.


    The 'free movement' has reached its peak and declined now, and many of those who came to work here for peanuts for greedy bosses have gone home. But their legacy stays in the pittance wages still paid and the long hours worked in many trades, with an union movement that has been rendered largely powerless and toothless by many years of punitive legislation.

  • No secret im against Brexit but it is what it is and was going to happen either with Johnson or Corbyn.

    Id have preferred if Labour had been in the driving seat as all i see with the Torys in charge and free from EU moderation and the European Court and human rights is an unfettered free rein to trash the ordinary working class,minorities and sick and disabled who the Tories feel are a drain on society.


    I think its a given that most if not all of the NHS snd public services like fire police ambulance education etc will be privatised and almost all of the benefits in the welfare system will disappear and we'll end up with a system that reflects the dire system of the US. If youre wrll off you can sccess everything.If youre poor,fuck off and die.


    Doesnt inspire confidence when in their manifesto was tackling travellers and gypsies.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/…g-manifesto-a9227511.html


    If theres anything positive in this at all its possibly the CANZUK negotiations that might give some of the population somewhere to escape to and make a more productive life free from Etonian control.


    Under the laddish veneer Johnson is a vicious narcissistic sociopath like Churchill was (how the piblic loves them). Hes got free rein alongside his fellow nutter Rees Mogg and other Tory extremists so im not expecting an easy 5 years to come.Hopefully before then ill have my application for citizenship in Italy granted.

  • So,


    Money for Nothing and your Kicks for Free,


    That's what's your right, that's what you deserve, that's your ENTITLEMENT?


    Come ON people...


    Recognise that there is no free lunch.


    No amount of idealism can ever, ever pay the bills, make CONSTRUCTIVE plans not just perpetual SNEERING...


    Seriously, if stuff is to change then sneers and wishful pining for Utopia doesn't cut it, transcend your ancient ingrained mantras, recognise that attitudes passed on from generation to generation ad infinity HAS NOT WORKED...


    No Idea what the answer is, but it SURE as HECK isn't perpetual sniping and sneering and finger pointing, that'll get you precisely NOWHERE at all...


    I'll get my coat 'cos that's me ostracized from here that's fer sure...


    bye xx

  • No one is looking for a free ride, just a level playing field. Its ok for the top elite and corporates to receive billions in state subsidies here and the US but people who are sick or disabled are regarded as criminals for claiming minimal state support and heakth care.

    If corporates paid their due taxes like ordinary citizens are hounded for then there would be no tax revenue shortfall and services would be properly financed.

    The system is corrupt and unreformable.The vast majority of folks justvwant to live a decent life have a job and finance their own aspirations but the system doesnt want everyone having equal access to aspiration,it deliberately propagates dependence on low paid jobs and ensnared in redtape and corporate extortion.


    The exact opposite of state welfare support is the US where currently 1 million homeless and 40 million living in employed poverty and no healthcare for those who cant afford it and its beciming illegal in most states to be homeless or to feed or provide shelter to homeless people. Trump is now proposing lockong up homeless people which will benefit enormoysly the private run prisons.

    Its the model the Torys have studied (by Cameron and Osborne and Rees Mogg) and like.



    If you dont like the "perpetual sniping"go back to reading your daily mail.

  • Doesnt inspire confidence when in their manifesto was tackling travellers and gypsies.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/…g-manifesto-a9227511.html


    that’s a extremely large hammer to free up officer time when there’s talk of employing more cops.
    I guess its designed to compensates land owners for damage by default. Plus Coppers get a issue resolved eg. public complaints re-traveler camp. No arguing on the sitespot. Your vehicles can be confiscated or sold to pay for damage/police time/land owner frustration or temp loss of use.
    Fines to pay for site clean up etc. It plays right into the Criminal Justice Bill. afterall, the settled community dont give a fk about Gypsies or travelers. They do care about the apparent “lack of Police/LA’s/courts” action/response to Illegal had-hock encampments (such has 40 trucks and caravans on the village green, school field or supermarket car park.) cleanups/police/LA officials/courts time paid for in Council tax by the same public making the complaint. The gov probably expected another 20,00 Polish migrants, Syrian refugees, Europeans coming over and living in cars on bricks. If free movement remains part of “the deal”. (Wouldn't want it to get out of hand now, would they)

  • Yeah goodbye Mr Johnson and good riddens!

  • I'm all for a labour version of social welfare but in my mind Corbyn is not the man to do it amd with Diane Abbott as his side kick, well no thanks, thats a Laurel and Hardy outfit. Corbyns hard left socialism would sail us right back 45 years. The last couple of weeks I took time to go through you tube and watch quite a few of the social documentaries and films made around early to mid 70's to review what times were like back then, the social documentaries do not lie. what words would I use, miserable and down trodden. Ken Loach, what a film maker amd social documentarist, he didnt plaster it with rose tinted glasses. Cathy come home. filmed in 1966 under Harold Wilsons Labour governemnt, and what was it, as the film is described -- a woman's struggle in a crumbling problem ridden welfare system.

    We all have opinions and that's mine. Brexit was the reason folk went blue, that will get done, I'm with rouge trader regarding leaving the EU.


    Aside from the country as a whole, on a personal level all I know is my own personal plans are shaping up quite nicely, I dont do the I'm alright jack but by my own hard graft and efforts, well, I'm doing alright, reason is, my customers are spending money, my order books for my harness work is well stacked out for the next 6 - 7 months at least and growing. they are spending because they have it, this is with the Tories in government so I'm not going to knock being busy. I know the majority of my customers will have voted Tory and thats not because they are rich elite, and that includes long term Labour supporters who have flipped. If they are comfortable with Tories as they feel safer financially then so be it, it means I'm getting plenty of work. Take this, as soon as Friday morning appeared when the markets opened, the pound took a good rise and is sitting high, blimey, yeah isnt that a good thing, of course it is.

    I've never been one of these travellers who are the whoa poor me the state and society hates us types. i've threaded my way through based on my own visions and dreams as to how i wanted my life to be and I made it happen regardless. We all got chances and I took mine and built on it. I've had travellers say 'oh it's alright for you', well why is I asked, they feel hard done by becuase their free hand out vision isnt working for them and get jealous at those who graft and make things happen. So all in all, I'm bright and positive for my future, will have to see what the countries future is as a whole but I really do not think it is the doom and gloom picture folk are painting before it's happened. And what is the protesting about that happened in London on Friday, loads marching against the election results, when will folk get a fucking grip and accept a democratic result yet again.

  • Time will tell Wiz and I hope your rosie view turns out to be right and the Tories turn out to be the party we all need, but based on previous blue goverments I think that the only ones who will be smelling the roses will be the rich.

  • Labour is doomed now anyway. It will undoubtedly move back to its Blairite leanings to appeal to centre right Tories and all those trad labour left wing members will leave as fast as they joined after Corbyn won.

    This was a one shot that Corbyn blew by sitting on the fence over Brexit.

    At best we'll be back to the two Tory parties of the Blair years.

    I bet Murdoch and Kuntsberg have been having multiple orgasms since the Torys won.

  • Right on!

    Blair was never ever anything of a socialist. Just a right-wing war-monger who seized his opportunity when the Labour Party was in the ascendant, when the Tories were dying of sleaze.

    A better ass-licker Bush never had:

    'Shit, Blair!'

    'Where Sir?'

  • I remember when Thatcher was asked what her greatest achievement was she answered, Tony Blair.

    Tories because of their social and educational background have infiltrated all parts of public services and infrastructure and always in the right place when those services are privatised. Theyre in control of the law,education, medicine,religion,media,tv radio,transportation,banking and business corporations,I dont think its beyond belief theyre in the Labour party and have designs on controlling its direction.

    I certainly think the Blairites seized an opportunity during the weak Kinnock years to push their own agenda.

  • Time will tell Wiz and I hope your rosie view turns out to be right and the Tories turn out to be the party we all need, but based on previous blue goverments I think that the only ones who will be smelling the roses will be the rich.

    They have two chances like any party but like any party, wether it be Blairs Labour, any of the Tory terms we've had recently they are all self interested leaches using society as it's cash cow. When I wrote the above I am basing it on personal experiences, as much as I care about all others everyone also has to look after their own corner as well and I was just saying I'm doing alright with work etc and that is only because my customers have money to spend and that can only be because they are doing alright and if they are doing alright something must be going right. The country isnt skint, look at the fire works epidemic and the many millions that gets spent on Christmas, there's plenty of new cars about, the pound has strengthened.

    It's always been the rich that smell the roses under any Tory or Labour governemnt, Blair and Brown came out of their terms pretty well loaded, bet they are millionaires.


    If I lived in a house with the rent and all the bills I wouldnt be doing alright on what I do earn which so isnt vast, cant remember the last time I went over the sngle mans threshold to pay tax, think it's once since the global financial crash. If I lived in a house I would be skint as fuck and probably be in debt because of bills and living a miserable existence in a shitty menial mind numbing job as my little business cannot afford to fund bricks and mortar but I can do alright living in my truck. In this life you have to make it rosy if you can cause no other fucker is going to do it.

  • I agree that Corbyn should stay on , he really does seem to appeal to your average working class voter that lives outide London.

    I kind of liked him to start with I liked the way he stuck to his principles didn't really lie like borris, but the truth was Corbyn was the reason many many people of working class backgrounds like me could nt vote for him, he was to left, to the average brickie, white van personage, the working class vote in recent years has swung massively tory, they appeal to the self emp, they appeal to the go getters the working majority, Corbyn appeals to old style 70 s unionism, an out of touch middle class champayne socialist elite.


    Corbyn was the problem no doubt about that, Brexit didn't help the party but he was defo the prob. add to the fact labour heartlands in Scotland now vote snp labour is knackered,


    What labour needs to do is appeal to everyone, and especially the working class vote, to realise there is a working class who likes to be heard.


    The only way to appeal would be to go more central than hard left as it appears to be at the moment, labour have a look at yourselves you have become islolated inward looking opinionated hard left that doesn't work at the moment, the working class have had enough and want to be heard, you can all look hipster and trendy but get out there and listen to your core voters.



    For the record I voted lib dem, I wasn't keen on borris as he is a compulsive lier and our local mp supported fracking and lied through his teeth all the time yet he has still got in again, and I couldn't vote for labour as they and Corbyn just didn't spek for me as a self employed grafter/businessman nowadays, ive changed but labout hasn't.


    I didn't agree with lib dem i thought they were wrong to say remain and ignore the referendum vote of 2016 I liked corbyns second ref but I respect the view the vote was out,


    The only reson voted lib dem was I hate the latest tory mp he is a yes man lap dog man who doesn't put his constituency first he just a greaser. The lib dem mp opposed fracking from day one, shes done a lot for flooding, local problems and to me seems a good egg, I wish she had got in.


    I put Brexit behind me when I voted I voted purley on the person.

  • Well whats done is done. Boris is promising the same things Blair did, a revolution for the working man and major reform. To be a servant to the common man.

    Blair lied, will Boris? Hes lied just about everything else.

    We just got to wait and see and the country and its scummy media has to hold him to his promises.

    Once weve left the EU and the UK is on its own he and his Torys wont have any scapegoat to fall back on.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-50797711

  • They have two chances like any party but like any party, wether it be Blairs Labour, any of the Tory terms we've had recently they are all self interested leaches using society as it's cash cow. When I wrote the above I am basing it on personal experiences, as much as I care about all others everyone also has to look after their own corner as well and I was just saying I'm doing alright with work etc and that is only because my customers have money to spend and that can only be because they are doing alright and if they are doing alright something must be going right. The country isnt skint, look at the fire works epidemic and the many millions that gets spent on Christmas, there's plenty of new cars about, the pound has strengthened.

    It's always been the rich that smell the roses under any Tory or Labour governemnt, Blair and Brown came out of their terms pretty well loaded, bet they are millionaires.


    If I lived in a house with the rent and all the bills I wouldnt be doing alright on what I do earn which so isnt vast, cant remember the last time I went over the sngle mans threshold to pay tax, think it's once since the global financial crash. If I lived in a house I would be skint as fuck and probably be in debt because of bills and living a miserable existence in a shitty menial mind numbing job as my little business cannot afford to fund bricks and mortar but I can do alright living in my truck. In this life you have to make it rosy if you can cause no other fucker is going to do it.

    True, life's what you make it. People who have high expectations need high income to be happy. If you're happy with little, & able to find peace & joy in simple things ultimately you will be happy with very little. People don't need big houses/fast cars these things have been used to fill the void put there by manipulative advertisers who tell you that you need blah blah blah to be happy.😕 The man who is happy with no trappings is truly happy. Kudos to you my friend.:peaceman::thumbup:

  • Here is my prediction, borris will lie and lie and lie, we will leave the eu, but I think it may actually help the economy, we will have a lot of arguments and problems along the way, borris will get a crap deal or no deal, and lie about that, America will rule us with a rod of iron, making us buy shite from them like questionable food, not to our standards, we wont be able to object because we will need there trade.


    The eu wil collapse break up germany will go into recession, but that will make there high quality stuff even cheaper, driving down everything.


    I think as a country we will become more isolated, but we might go all sodding colonial again just setting up factories in cheap labour countries to make cheap goods, if china havent already beaten us at that already.


    I hate to say it I was left but ive drifted center , I couldn't bear the out of touchness of the hard left blaming everything on the right, when most buy goods from cheap countries with questionable ethics and co2 emissions, moaning, using amazon and e bay because its cheaper and next day delivery with van drivers on poor pay working there asses off while local shops go bust ..buying tat from the far east then moaning about consumerism and waste.


    Its just weird how the left has radicalised from the hard left from the old and new money people, and the right has radicalised from the working class low paid and semi and skilled labour market.


    Its almost like both classes are rebelling against there traditional backgrounds.


    I went off labour after the recession of 2007 08 a hard time, dad had a stroke, times where hard, massive rows, ill never forgive the stupid spending that went on by the labour government then, the out of touchness then, and of course tony blair for lying about the reason for the war on Iraq and getting a massive amount of money for years after he left us all in a mess and brown.


    Labour has to do a lot more to get a vote, start by getting working class people in the party, I guess that goes for tories as well, listen to your constituants, dont go to music festivals and try to look hip, mps should never be hip they have a serious job to do.


    The uk is a mess though because of all this as England generally is a tory heartland, and Scotland traditionally voted labour those votes have been lost and if Scotland does go independent, lost forever,


    Immigration like in America is a massive issue, swept under the carpet hoped to go away, but if your on a low skilled low paid job I can remember being told by loaded lefties and righties get a pole to do it they work harder and there cheaper, a real kick in the guts if you worked hard yourself I can remember when they showed iraqies and indian people en mass immigrating to the uk in the early 00s a wry smile off a person I knew saying ahh theres my new employees for next month, and he used an agency who used gangmaster and questionable employment tactics, but ahh they where the libral elite not racist at all employing immgrants good on them, but actively saying we dont emply bristish they dont work as hard.


    Yes we had to change the hotbed of unionist sexist racsist is it my break now white working class we learnt a hard lesson wages were driven low, and esteem was low you were reguarded as tea drinking lazy shites, or cowboys, but the image in the construction industry Is changing, more women on sites, more diversity, less tea drinking we all work very hard nowadays, and turf out good qualtity.


    We were forced by a recession to change and by customers who used cheap labour who more often than not got a bad or shoddy job done, but I look often at the some of the left who come out with loaded mockney phrases like" they come over here and take our jobs" as a joke on the working class that there stupid and thick and racsist and find the whole thing sickening.


    This mini revolution has been in the making for a long time.


    tradtional industries and jobs were shat on a long time ago.


    coal mining.... gone because of pollution,, and yes a tory government and later a final death nail by labour yet we still bought products off countries that use coal fired power stations like germany, india, china,


    steel making, ahh no coal thus more expensive, and unions higher labour costs so oh lets buy steel from china where they work there ass off for sod all.


    tractor manu, in Doncaster I remember going to the case ih factory, it was massive, its gone it got all moved to germany.


    massey ferguson, got moved to france,


    weardale blue circle cement works got moved to france,


    tata steel india,


    some of ford, spain, and germany,


    it all went because the euro and global currencies and labour was cheaper,


    towns desimated.


    I only hope Nissan doesn't go but i think it might,



    We as a nation never believed in ourselves especially the working class always the butt of the elites jokes I used to find, that's they view from working class people I see about,


    When I was kicked out of a family business I hated everything and everyone, I blamed everything on everyone, now I am doing ok I m no hotshot but iam happy independent free from shackles of family politics.


    I draw a similar parallel to the referendum, the industries and working class of this country at the moment feel the same about the eu and being told there stupid little Englanders.


    That one angle but there are many complex angles, there are working class lefties ho I really feel for they at the moment feel lost but there maybe is one thing we all should do is unite look out for one another dont look back in anger.


    In the uk there are inventors, workers, apprentices, manufaturers, all who always go to a far flung part of the globe for cheap labour, lets believe in ourselves again.


    but again Ireland, now that's a mess, its a shame i hate to say it if they werny united, or northern Ireland had there own independent status, the border in the irish sea but again they showed allegiance to the uk, that is a mess.

  • Just to pick up on your point of the trade deals with America and them making us buying shite from them Gee, just becuase it's on the shelves, doesnt mean we have to buy it. but people do love buying shite, the shopping centers and high streets are full of people buying shite, espcially now the christmas bollox is upon us.

  • Government debt and who gets labelled with its responsibility are a myth. Labour spent a lot of money in tgeur 13 year tenancy in the Blair Briwn years,a substantial amoubt of that went on post 9/11 wars and military expenditure in Iraq and Afghanistan post wars.

    Since the end of Labour term and despite harsh crippling austerity,the Tory government has succeeded in nore than doubling the national debt and continues to pay out billions in unnecessary corporate subsidies.

    The UK isnt poor and can easily sustain levels if spending equal to the previous labour years...it already is.



    The UK ran normally while still paying massive world war 2 war debt right up to 1997.

    The US has trippled its national debt under Obama democrats to 3 Trillion dollars. The Chinese government runs a national debt of several trillion dollars and is still buying up other countries national debts (for leverage).


    Countries recover more quickly with government expenditure and prosper more with high government expenditure.

    Its why the US UK Russia China Saudi Arabia France Germany Israel etc are as powerful as they are.

    They problem with the UK sunce the Thatcher 80's is both politicians British manufacturing and Financiers hace adopted a mentality of short termism. No one is interested in future proofing or investment,theyre just interested in making as much money as they can as fast as they can by buying and selling assets. The UK has no major manufacturing assets or base as theyve all been sold to fireign interests so both their assets and tax revenue go to the countries theyre based in and not to the UK exchequer.

    The Government both Labour and Tory compound the money drain by not properly collecting from corporate tax evaders like Amazon Ebay etc etc.

    They compound the problem by selling state assets to foreign corporations or foreign governments like China Saudi or the US.


    They compound the problem by allowing foreign corporations or governments to come and build and operate our infrastructure and services so theyll operate for their own commercial benefit not ours.


    They compound the problem by doing nothing to deal with money flowing to tax havens, almost all of which are British operated,the other tax big haven operator is the US.


    They compound the problem by moving British companies production to cheap labour markets like China and Korea.


    They compound the problem by allowing foregn investors to buy up property in the UK and operate residential and corporate rentals with no control whasoever which pushes up property prices and rents making them unaffordable to Britush citizens and small business.


    They compound the problem by allowing rich foreign investors to buy up huge agricultural operations here taking out of our control all the income generated and what they do while theyre soaking up all the Government and EU subsidies going.


    They compound the problem by watching our domestic food production disappear and allow big supermarkets to ship in food from China and Africs we can grow perfectly well here.


    They compound the problem by handing huge military and transport contracts to the US and China


    They compound the problem by doing nothing about immigration or setting any residency conditions like most countries do.


    They compound the problem by assuming that the US will provide our military defence from foreign powers and terrorism,provide our cheap food and health care needs.


    The British government and corporate management have just become self interested and parasitic,they dont give a shit about the UK or its citizens,only what they can make from us and hoe much they can milk from the system.


    Brexit may well free us from EU regulation and allow us to trade with who we want but non of Brexit is intended for the benefit of ordinary residents.


    The EU may possibly lose one or two members in the future but I dont see it crumbling.I do see the possibility of another trading union develop in Eastern Europe between Russia and Eastern European states. Similarly one in Africa and Middle East just like South America is building a trading bloc because the economic dynamics of global trade dominance are rapidly pivoting to China Indonesia Thailand Malaysia India.


    If the UK expects to prosper post Brexit then its got to forge big trade with Canada Australia NZ the US as well as Europe (which Scotland has been busy doing already for some time)

    Boris Johnson certainly will have his work cut-out.

    The country will survive perfectly ok,what it will look like in 20 years is another matter..very different to how it looks now though.


    It is what it is,its up to us as individuals to make a living as best we can now the rules have changed.

    Id like to think that along with his drive to 'liberate' the UK from the EU Boris would liberate us frim a lot if the straight jacket petty laws wed get a more libertarian constitution and let go of Scotland too if thats the choice of Scottish people.

    Cant see much of that happening though.

  • It's all about global trade to keep the greedy wheel of consumerism turning, quick fixes for massive profit and hang the consequences. the consequences of this modern way of life is having a massive impact environmentally, hang the consequence will bite the world on it's proverbial as we are seeing things being damaged and changed for the worse yet the industrial growing world continues to eat it's way into a future oblivion if things carry on the way they are. The big nations want growth, China, India etc, the pollution and damage being caused is shocking, all in the name of growth and profit. The big machine keeps turning and those making the massive profits and the world leaders need this to carry on to keep them in the lives they are accustomed to and desire.