Racism in Politics

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  • My view is that the term “racist” is banded about much more these days in social media, media, By Politicians, activists etc. and yet when asked to provide proof, none comes forward (take the case of Tommy Robinson) But when proof is provided in the form of the Chakrabarti inquiry and subsequent report including Testimonials from 70 Labour officials past and present. This racism is further denied, dismissed or overlooked because it doesn’t fit in with that voters agenda.


    Many of the hippies I know are likely to vote labour next week. How do they justify voting Labour with claims of racism within the movement made by former and current Labour officials?


    What is more important, ousting a Conservative government in favour of a Socialist/Labour government, Regardless of any complacency? and excepting some racism will continue within the Party.


    or staying true to all your principles and either voting for another party or simply not voting?

    ^^

  • All political parties have some 'racist' members, it's human nature. At one time, it wouldn't have been thought twice about.


    I shall certainly be voting Labour, the policies of the party are far more important (if they carry them out...) than a few quibbles about racism.


    And I'm sure most Tory voters feel the same about the quibbles about racism in the Tory party.


    But so far as Labour is concerned, you should be aware that a most concerted effort has been carried out by right-wing juice both inside and outside the LP, to have Corbyn taken down. The BBC, mostly run by right-wing juice, has heavily involved itself in this attack. The Chief Rabbi, himself a very conservative character in every sense of the word, and of course a personal friend of Boris Johnson, broke the unwritten tradition of over 200 years to put the boot in. They are desperate not to let Corbyn get in.


    Why?

    Because the present right-wing governed State of Israel will lose a willing and warlike friend on the world stage if the LP get into power. They have many friends in high places in the US, as recent events have shown, and under the present Tory party, they have many here.

    If the State of Israel wants war in the East it will look to the US to start it, and it will look to the UK to follow. But unlike 'New Labour' under Blair, Corbyn's Labour is very unlikely to follow.


    The US are sizing up for a war against Iran, and they will need all the friends they can to help them. If Corbyn gets in, they will get the same answer they got from Wilson back in the day, over Vietnam.

  • So your not denying there’s a influential number of racists in the a Labour Party and In-order to keep Corbyn as the figure head, that’s excerptible and gets your vote? Why has LP turned on the Jewish membership in recent years? It’s not like this racism isn’t focused. You can say it’s the right or the left of the Party. It’s happening in the Labour Party. Surely your vote should be first and foremost to remove “the racism” from within the Party? Only then worry about our governments support of and involvement in warring factions around the world.


    I don’t want to get too personal about this with you oldkeith, but feel a broken system is just as bad as a dysfunctional system. I’ve been a Labour voter all my life, but my vote this time is neither for LP policies or LP Political structure. I was indeed a Corbyn supporter, but he sold out in my view.
    A few quibbles about racism..... That’s OK then. :osama:

  • I think the claims of anti-semitism in Labour are completely justified, but being dismissed as a right wing smear. If anything like the same amount of reports had been levied against a right wing party, then all hell would be let loose.


    The issue is that, people don't understand the history of Israel, and think that 'anti-Zionism' is some kind of imperialist movement financed by the Rothschilds (for example), which just regurgitates the old tropes and conspiracy theories about Jewish bankers controlling the economy etc.


    I live in a Labour safe seat where the candidate once tweeted about 'Zionist masters'.


    However, that doesn't get the Tories off the hook -- calling black people 'piccaninnies' is pretty unacceptable too.


    I'm not going to be drawn into an election where I need to choose between which racist I support. :/

  • Good morning freedom fighters. Well that was another long night.


    A point mentioned by oldkeith


    Because the present right-wing governed State of Israel will lose a willing and warlike friend on the world stage if the LP get into power. They have many friends in high places in the US, as recent events have shown, and under the present Tory party, they have many here.

    If the State of Israel wants war in the East it will look to the US to start it, and it will look to the UK to follow. But unlike 'New Labour' under Blair, Corbyn's Labour is very unlikely to follow.


    The US are sizing up for a war against Iran, and they will need all the friends they can to help them. If Corbyn gets in, they will get the same answer they got from Wilson back in the day, over Vietnam

    It’s very true the UK has sent its soldiers to support fight in regime change/wars. We have even started one or two ourselves. Being a member of NATO (in my view) it is/was to be expected we get called to arms. However, “we” the public have grown weary of sending our children into pointless conflicts and with increased “awareness” raised through open discussions and to some extent the media. Exposed agendas, manipulation of facts, along with “poor” previous results, have made us question our future role and any subsequent intervention.


    If voting LP removes the likelihood of the U.K. supporting the USA in future conflicts, with (sending troops, military aid etc) to say Iran for example, How will a LP government prevent us from future conflicts in Europe or elsewhere if we become part of a EU army? Swapping one master for another, only this time our own troops would be out of our own control. So if in the future the EU army were to be turned on the Socialist UK government for actively supporting a identified Terrorist faction, here or abroad. How will the redwhite&blue flag resolve that conflict, Would the Labour Party affiliate to Russia for its LP salvation?


    Surely racism isn’t justified on grounds the Jews have “friends in high places” and because we share the same friends our children will somehow become dragged into military conflicts.

  • Hmmm and sigh and Hmmm and sigh again... ad infinitum....


    Do you all really know what you are discussing here?


    Is racism really the ongoing issue?


    Surely "exploitation" is the issue regardless of race.


    I don't see that Corbyn has any policy that is not a compromise that favours exploiters.


    As much as I would like to see a Labour government(so they can yet again show themselves as the exploitative cunts they are) they are addicted to doubles peak and bullshit lies and committed to sly control.... Because they are more equal than citizens.


    Tories are arseholes. But they are obviously, arrogantly and openly so.


    I wouldn't vote for any of these selfish twats. But some twats are openly cuntish... Others pretend to be something else.....

  • Can you not just summarise the article.


    The one I clicked on was very long and boring and had no summary.


    I want to know the outcome in the first paragraph.... If the writer needs to lead me along on their merry ego trip without telling me where Its heading then they already know its a lost article and that they shouldn't have bothered.


    It's poor delivery and rambling crap.

  • But why would anyone read it?


    Scan the first and last paragraph and they don't really tie together.

    In layman’s terms, it’s to the point, less around the block & beats the bush with its own soggy root.


    Like I referred to in my opening post. We use the word racist without submitting proof. We counter claim without facts. We read what we want to read and make judgement, believing what we want to believe.


    The two articles you started to read are good examples of how civilised individuals of a moral standing can justify their own affiliation to a group/party or ideology, by deflecting from facts with smoke and mirrors or selective dementia. :)

  • Well, I thought that might liven things up a bit on here, and put the cat among the pigeons! Never seen so many posts in so short a time, and Paul isn't paying me, either:D


    So far as it goes, I meet what might be called casual 'racism' by some nowadays, quite often. Only very rarely is it nasty.


    If you cannot understand what is happening in the LP, analyse the data available.

    In any group of almost half-a-million people, like the LP, you are going to find some racists of one kind or another. So 70 complaints isn't a big deal, it's just a vociferous one, because they want to be.

    Find any collection of 1000 people of any race, creed, or colour, and you'll get at least 50 who may in some way be regarded as 'racist' by some other people.


    So far as the State of Israel goes, it is considered 'racist' to criticise that State, whatever it might do or however it might act. This is ludicrous, of course, but that is the 'official' view that is widely accepted by many, including now, the LP.

    So is it 'racist' to criticise the government and State of Iran? Or the government and State of Turkey? Or nearer home, Italy? France? The UK?


    A government is responsible for how a country is seen to behave in the world, and all governments are subject to criticism from others. But there it stops. It is not considered 'racist' to criticise them.


    You cannot be called 'racist' for criticising something that Macron and his government does, can you? You are describing/criticising the government of France, and how it runs the French State, not the French people themselves.


    If you criticise Trump and his motley shower, you are not being 'racist', are you? You do not consider yourself to be criticising the whole of the American people, do you?


    So what makes the State of Israel any different from these? Go figure.

  • I agree criticisms of a government/state for their actions/views isn’t racist, There are many races of people’s in the world who have no country to call home (eg, Kurds) and little is said about those.

    I acknowledge racism towards Jews was widespread years ago.


    There is clearly an issue with some of the Labour Party members who (according to sworn statements and Chakrabarti’s report) are/have been/continue to be racist. This report is focusing on claims that have been deemed to be truly racist.
    What‘s suprised me is the lack of action by the LP leaders, and Poor levels of punishment (if any.) This leads me to believe the LP leaders are more concerned with keeping membership numbers than eradicating racism towards Jewish members.


    On reflection it appears no different to Rotherham Labour Councillors, suppressing whistle blowers 2002 - 2012 regarding child sex abuse claims reported by social workers etc. Where safeguarding votes from the Muslim Pakistani Communities was more important than the vulnerable children effected.

  • Corbyn is bothered because Israel as a whole is exploiting Palestinian workers.

    What has Israel got to do with the UK -- and why does it receive disproportionate attention?

    Why has he shown support for Hamas and Hezbollah?

    Why has he praised anti semitic artwork and prose?


    There have been a lot of reports of Anti Semitism in Labour, most of the reports because of the behaviour of far left Momentum supporters -- if the same number of reports had been made within a right wing party all hell would break loose.


    Watch this video...


    Even if you think the reported incidents could be misinterpreted, it's still worth considering the reactions of the interviewees, including the tired old tropes about how Jews have all the money etc.


    I think it's dangerous to excuse it.


    I've voted Labour since 1986 and paid money to put Corbyn into power -- but the current revelations are not random isolated incidents, they're showing an institutional level of anti semitism that's way beyond that of a Tory smear campaign.

  • Many thanks for pointing at this website. I have ended up reading several of these thought-provoking essays and have also bought one of the books recommended by one of the essayists.


    I would add this one to the list likahamadoolihan posted.

    https://unherd.com/2018/08/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitic


    I may lean fairly strongly south-west in the left libertarian quadrant of the political compass, but I have seen and heard Jeremy Corbyn speak several times and he has always seemed to me to be basically decent. I have tried to understand why some of my Jewish friends do actually fear the possibility of a Labour Government and this article probably explains the dilemma as well as any I've seen so far.

  • Having looked at what has been said so far, I have seen nothing to change my view that 'anti-semitism' incidents in the LP are being deliberately blown up to bring the LP into disrepute at this time.

    Just another part of an engineered attempt to keep the LP out of power, on the part of those who already hold great authority and power, for the very reasons that I have outlined above.

  • I have seen nothing to change my view that 'anti-semitism' incidents in the LP are being deliberately blown up to bring the LP into disrepute at this time.

    How many anti Semitism complaints does there need to be before it gets taken seriously?


    673 complains in 10 months?


    In the video interview I posted above, how are statements like "they have loads of money" not anti Semitic?


    My local MP candidate Apsana Begum shared an anti Semitic tweet about Zionist masters, how is that not anti Semitic?



    The Jewish population of the UK is small -- there are fewer Jews than Muslims - and having grown up with, worked with and been friends with many, I'm witnessing a lot of lifelong labour voting Jews scared of the current state of affairs within the party, or more specifically scared by the hard left momentum supporters.


    I have one Jewish friend (now a solicitor) who collected money for the miners in the 1980s and once described Labour as "the best thing to happen to the UK", who is now refusing to vote Labour because of the problems in the party.


    The very fact that a large number of Jews think they have something to be scared of, and the majority think that JC is an anti semite, is a concern. Dismissing the experience and fears of a large section of a minority group as right wing propaganda is troubling in itself.


    British Jews told me they plan to leave if Corbyn wins

    More links from the JC:


    Leaked documents reveal shocking Labour antisemitism cases


    Jews in the party get thrown under the bus


    Every political ideology needs a bogeyman, and in the case of the hard left the bogeyman is the wealthy capitalist -- Jewish conspiracies are awash with tropes about the greedy Jewish bankers, the Rothschilds funding wars etc.


    It doesn't take a huge leap to see that there are people who are still blaming the same conspiracies on Jews, and using "anti Zionism" and criticism of Israel with some clever sophistry -- thus misrepresenting the origins of the movement and the prejudice in Europe that inspired its creation.

    I've voted Labour in almost every election since 1986, but I can't vote for them now and unfortunately my vote will be going to an independent instead.

    It's very sad when people are so stuck in ideology that they fail to see the issue.

  • I was a labour party member for a very long time,i didnt specifically hear a lot of anti semitism expressed.I did hear an awful lot of derisory anti theism in general. Passive aggressive bullying of members who had any religious beliefs as insane or mentally subnormal.Plenty of subtle feminism,homphobia and body fascism.Similar in the two unions i was in at regional and grassroots level.

    Theres also a lot of left vs right antagonism and intolerance in Labour and one of the reasons i decided there was never likely to be a representative labour government.

    The disreputable antics of Scottish Labour and the cosying up with Scottish Tories and Unions to disrupt and discredit the SNP and LibDems and democratic process pushed me to leave and join another party.

    I wouldnt ever vote Tory but nor will i ever vote Labour either...not that i will now,im not on any electoral roll and no intention of registering.

  • I too have Jewish friends, intellectual educated people, perhaps like yours, but undoubtedly more left-wing in their leanings, and they only confirm what I have been saying: That there is a concerted movement among right-wing elements both within the LP and within the BBC, to cast anti-Semitic slurs on Corbyn personally and to try to remove him from power, so that the right-wing may once again control the LP, as they did during Blair's time as Prime Minister. Blair, the war-monger. Remember him?


    The aim is to have another powerful ally alongside the USA when war is taken to Iran, which has very large reserves of oil. The Europeans have already shown they are unwilling to do this. To anyone who has studied the right-wing of the LP, and their collective backgrounds, this is very obvious. Except for those who do not wish to see.

  • Your entitled to “your own views” oldkeith and a right to vote for whom you deem fit.
    Being a hippy I would (like others) abstain from voting labour “this time.” Let them fall from grace. Hope that out of the ashes Labour reforms as two parties. A left LP and a Right LP. They can then both screw as close to the Dividing line as future voters permit. YOU the voter hold the power. Any form of racism (especially to it’s own paid up members) is “un exceptable” even under the same roof, in it? [panic]

  • I've also decided to abstain this time. It goes against my beliefs but after voting Green party for years I just think it's pointless now. I'd never vote Tory and would lean more towards Labour as in my opinion they're the lesser of two evils, but I still feel like I'm still selling out by voting for them. I do agree with Old Keith that there seems to be a massive smear campaign against Labour at the minute as there's racism everywhere, but I've lost the small amount of respect I had for them in the process, so it worked. As a result of all the bullshit I rarely read the news now and am going to make a point of not even checking the result.

  • I'm going to be voting for an independent 'anti corruption' candidate -- the same guy who helped to oust our corrupt mayor (Lutfur Rahman) a few years ago.


    The local labour candidate (Apsana Begum) used to be PA for the above mayor, has been in trouble for sharing anti semitic tweets and is currently being investigated for housing fraud. The police were also called out to her selection meeting because of allegations of voter intimidation. :/

  • It’s strange times. Many will just let the election be. Many have no choice. What ever happens. It can only get better. Some very important issues have been thrust upon us. The climate and management of people. I couldn’t see us getting away with pitching teepees or pink boats in the Heart of London back in the 1980’s. Climate change, animal cruelty, environment, nuclear disarmament were all issues we campaigned for but couldn’t reach the masses.


    I think the media smears towards labour have increased over the last month. but before that the media were smearing Tommy R. Brexiters and anyone else if it promoted the media agendas.

  • Ive given up being too fussed about the politics of this country or likelihood of change. Regardless of government we get, very little actually changes,we just lurch from one catastrophe to another that we most probably could have avoided if we as a nation and our politicians had had national interest and long term future good of every citizen at the forefront and not selfishness,class and party politics and pandering to US corporate imperialism colouring our decisions and direction.


    While Norway has carefully invested a massive oil revenue for the good of their country and pretty much everyone enjoys a high standard of living,successive governments here with exact same oil and gas revenue treasure have pissed the revenue up the wall,closed down industries mostly to decimate union power,paid billions in unnecessary bribes snd subsidies to corporates and sold off any service or asset not bolted down to the highest bidder for short term profit.


    Government and corporate management here has completely lost sight of long term investment and future planning,all for short term profit and catastrophe management.


    Ive lived through really prosperous times and lived through vicious long term strikes, power cuts, 3 day weeks,oil crisis,fuel strikes, rampany inflation,completely unnecessary avoidable wars, collapses of essential services,manufactured poverty and perpetual seesaw economies and the equally perpetual baying of corrupt media dogs blaming one party or person or another for the mess all in the interests of furthering their own grip on power....Who ever wins the keys to number 10 im not seriously expecting much change.

    The rich establishment will continue being rich and the rest of us will continue struggling through stoically as we do.

    If Boris wins it will be more of the same inept Tory policies,If Corbyn Labour win,non of the establishment or the right of Labour is ever going to allow him to enact any of his preferred manifesto withput a massive fight.


    There will still be the 'them and us' the racism and anti 'forriner' attitude,religious hate, unionism v separatism etc etc



    Business as usual in the good old dis-United kingdom