Extinction Rebellion

Welcome to UKHIppy2764@2x.png

UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • Meanwhile, back on topic, I've been looking over the posts in this thread in the hope of some enlightenment and it has been helpful to read a range of views. I am not optimistic though.


    Recently I've found myself being drawn into some local XR events. I have no doubt the intentions are sincere, but I am struggling to decide whether my actions are the most effective way I can help raise awareness and promote change. It seems inevitable that unless we change our behaviour on a massive scale we shall not be around for much longer.


    To be honest, the whole situation seems utterly daunting. In recent years I have made a number of significant changes in the way I do things and in what I consume, but it is nowhere near enough. One of the interesting messages coming through XR, though, is that while we must all do what we can it will never be enough to make the kind of difference we need to prevent catastrophe. Governments need to be taking control now and not letting the multi-nationals run the game. Unfortunately governments, including our own, are in thrall to big business. One of the books I am reading at the moment is "Honourable Friends" by Caroline Lucas and, while her party's policies seem to be on the modest side of what is needed she does go some way to explain the extent to which many of her colleagues in the House seem to accept the status quo and.patronise and absorb into the machine anyone who seeks genuine change. To coin a phrase, we are doomed.


    I've been fortunate enough to have had a full and interesting life, though certainly not one without its sadnesses and challenges, but I seriously wonder what the future holds for my grandchildren. I fear for them and the mess we've left for them. They should be scared and angry and many are, but I spent this afternoon in a French lycée talking to students during a project they are studying in their English classes about protest and protest songs and trying to get them to articulate what motivates them to want a better world. Part of my task was to help the kids express their concerns through music. One class wanted to write a song about gender inequality and they began to warm to the task as we wrote a song together and performed it, but the best idea the other class could come up with was to complain that their school day is too long (which it is, as it happens) so we made up an opening song statement about that. It was a start, but if this is the extent of the current cohort of 16-17 year olds interest in their own futures, I despair.


    If we are to take the threat of our own extinction more seriously we have find ways to get the message out there somehow. We have driven half of all living species to extinction during less than a century and it looks like the planet is going to reboot well before the end of this one. Governments will not act unless they come under serious pressure. I read recently that it takes just 3% of a population to fuel change. That is why I was out on the street recently. As is apparent from some of the statements in this discussion already some people are inconvenienced by large-scale action. That is indeed regrettable, but I don't know a workable alternative. We have wasted the last few years on a political sideshow that is of absolutely no significance compared with what we have coming.


    A dozen XR activists staged a die-in outside a local branch of Barclays a couple of weeks ago. While the curious were wandering by and wondering what was going on several activists managed to talk to some people who really seemed unaware that the situation is a grave as it is despite the publicity large-scale action has generated. I was asked along to come and sing a few songs and we noticed that people would stand on the fringes to watch the action, but also that listening to the music seemed to give them "permission" to do that. The next planning meeting I went to had a number of members of that newly informed public also in attendance. We plan to try and get the local councils to declare a "climate emergency" so that whatever policies they develop will have to put the environmental impacts at the heart of any planning. We collected signatures and took a letter into the bank to explain our concern at the bank's continuing support for exploitation of fossil fuel. Many employees expressed surprise that their employers were so deeply enmeshed in industries actively changing the climate.


    I accept that all of this may show my own gullibility and naivety, and I am asking questions of myself all the time I am taking part, but could I look my grandchildren in the eye, if we have enough years left, and say I did nothing to try and enable them to get as much out of life as I have?


    Personally I have doubts that Project Yellowhammer is simply about making preparations for the effects of an unruly exit from the European Union. I think it is turning minds to kinds of authoritarian control that will result as societies relocate in search of food and respite from the effects of our folly. Maybe it would just do us all a favour if the meteor hit first.

  • Good post, Marshlander!

    That last paragraph is particularly pertinent at this time.


    At present we are only seeing some weather effects of climate change, The movement of people due to climate change is only just beginning. Quite soon, in human terms, we shall see millions and tens of millions on the move from overheated and dried-out lands, all seeking to try to find a place to merely stay alive.... a little longer. Many countries will be faced with very stark choices; it is not a pretty future that awaits the world if nothing is done.

  • Yellowhammer is the government operational response to Brexit. Its more simply the 2004 Civil Contingencies Act that was formulated by previous Labour administration as a revamp and updating of the long outdated 1948 civil defencies act following 9/11 and intended to prepare for any Black Swan event.

    Whats significant in the planning of governments is that Black Swan events are no longer improbable events of major impact but theyre more likely to become highly probable and frequent, especially regarding climate influenced weather disasters and events from space beyond our control,such as solar flares that could turn our advanced technology based and dependent societies back to the dark ages overnight.

    Its no coincidence the governnent -rightly so- is finally investing heavily in a joined up emergency service radio comms network.

    Its also no coincidence (though less welcome) the governnent is now planning to heavily invest in policing and domestic military preparation.

    Read into that what you want but does not bode well for freedom and civil liberties.


    As for XR I think they need to concentrate on education of younger generations(the ones who will be most affected) to attempt to bring about radical change.

    At the end of the day climate change and catastrophic weather events arent something that happens to other people so we need not get worried, theyre happening now and affecting people who never expected to be affected.

    Whole chunks of wealthy real estate going up in flames in the US and Australia.Massive flash flooding, tornado, and freak storms affecting areas of Europe not normally affected by extreme weather.

    Pretty soon we in the UK will be experiencing severe storms the like we've not had in living memory.


    Sadly until we do start experiencing these things regularly and the fallout from them (food shortages,deaths, illness, the collapse of infrastructure that we take for granted; people will remain reluctant to believe we are at risk and that XR are just crackpot doom merchants.


    The consequences of walking on a railway track are well known and documented and people still do it anyway.

    The same applies to human attitudes to climate change and our consuming habits.


    Humans are too in love with their way of life and convinced that what ever happens, man has the ability to fix it all.

    Until we in the western world face the same daily catastrophic events that are common elsewhere around the globe nothing much will change.


    The best we can do is prepare our kids for whats coming.

    Di occhi belli ne è pieno il mondo,ma di occhi che ti guardano con sincerità e amore, c'è ne sono pochi. :hippy:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NomadicRT ().

  • Apart from my objection to "outsiders" coming into London to mess up our city, I also think it's incredibly misguided campaign -- not to undermine the importance of the issue, more that I don't think this is a solution.


    The only way the governments would be able to implement radical changes would be to heavily tax transport and fuel use, which would drastically affect the lives of ordinary people, more so if they are on reduced incomes.


    So, protesting for higher taxes on behalf of the establishment seems a bit topsy turvey -- the history of protest is very anti-establishment, and this seems to buy right into austerity.


    Also, using an emotionally disturbed autistic girl calling for everyone to panic, in the way that her disorders cause her to panic. Something not quite right with all of that :/


    I tend to agree with almost all of the 'Spiked Online' take on things...


    The cult of Greta Thunberg


    Extinction Rebellion: enemies of the working class


    An establishment rebellion


    Stop scaring kids stiff about climate change

  • I totally agree that we need to look after the planet, BUT there is one huge question I have and that is, the problem is not what we do so much as how much we do it, and what I see a lot of with E.R is mindless breeders who wont stop and control nothing more than a base instinct to reproduce, it is not a right to reproduce and endanger the planet because ultimately too many people on this planet. I am sorry if you find this offensive it is not my intention, I see thinks rather black and white due to Autism, but that doesnt make me stupid

  • I agree,the higher taxation on vehicles and non eco technology and energy is like turkeys voting for christmas. The measures will only hurt those least able to afford it and widen the haves and have-nots gap in society.

    There seems very little joined up thinking or sensible solutions offered.

    Most of our problems stem from our general sense of entitlement to consume and live extravagantly thats not at all sustainable long-term.


    No one addresses that obsessive compulsion to consume.Quite the reverse,we are actively encouraged to consume and at ever increasing rates on things we really have no need for.


    No one addresses the absolute stupidity of commuting vast distances on a daily basis to work and back creating the pollution and congestion we suffer, when we have the technology to eradicate the need for centralised work centres that most employers insist on, that create this situation.

    No one addresses the fact we are eating food thats been flown half way round the world to get to our plate...we keep on buying it though.

    No one addresses the fact that globalisation is destroying our local economies or our ability to be locally self sufficient because everything we depend on is mostly shipped in from abroad.

    It really is about educating people and encouraging a rational change of consuming habits. It wont be achieved by disrupting peoples lives through protest or taxation.

    We really do need to change because here in the UK we are exceptionally vulnerable to extreme weather disruption that comes with climate change.We live on an alleyway frequented by the jet stream and huge atlantic weather systems and our essential infrastructure no longer has any spare capacity to absorb and cope with catastrophic events.


    And yes there are too many of us but in all species there are natural regulatory mechanisms that control over successful population growth of a species. Disease usually intervenes but famine is equally potent. Humans arent immune from these regulators,in fact weve a few aditional manmade ones like war and nuclear accidents...who takes any notice of Fukushima now? yet its effects havent really got going yet.

    Dinosaurs ruled the planet once look what happened to them.Now were another set of dinosaurs ruled by suited dinosaurs.

    It wont end well, but Earth will carry on without us.

    Di occhi belli ne è pieno il mondo,ma di occhi che ti guardano con sincerità e amore, c'è ne sono pochi. :hippy:

    The post was edited 2 times, last by NomadicRT ().

  • Sadly, we are unlikely to control human reproduction while there is total religious freedom.

    Most religions encourage maximum human breeding because this gains them more adherents, more followers to deal with their religious or secular opponents....

    While constructed fantasies of unreason control the minds of very many of the Earth's human population, that population will continue to grow, and to waste the planet's rapidly diminishing resources.

    Only one factor in the ecological breakdown of the biosphere, but an important one.

  • That's exactly what the fox hunters/farmers say about people going into the countryside to disrupt their lives :/

    Maybe so, but it's a different issue -- however, the hunt sabs are like many other animal rights groups who focus on the plight of one species while not considering the general human attitude towards all species -- like, you'll rarely see them disrupting anglers for example, which is largely a working class pursuit and arguably way more popular.


    In the case of XR, we have a largely middle class group of people (nothing wrong with being middle class btw) from outside of London, getting in the way of everyone from cab drivers, bus drivers, couriers, tradesmen, emergency services and anyone using public transport -- there's no discernment and a seeming lack of understanding of how our infrastructure works and who relies on it for their livelihood.

  • Apart from my objection to "outsiders" coming into London to mess up our city, I also think it's incredibly misguided campaign -- not to undermine the importance of the issue, more that I don't think this is a solution ...


    The cult of Greta Thunberg

    Paul has articulated one or two of the problems I have with embracing the movement in its entirety. I don't like being in a gang or a tribe, but collective action is a proven way of challenging the status quo and in working for something better, often for a majority. However, large-scale actions outside our own geographical area seem antithetical to the aims of the rebellion, i.e. to change behaviours so that we consume less, respect the fact that we are only one of many forms of life, that (despite what the book of Genesis tells us, common sense would suggest we don't actually have a right to "dominion" over the earth, nor that we should continue to go forth and multiply) and that, having created a massive problem, we have a responsibility to do what we can to help the earth heal and rebalance.


    I don't believe in prophets or saviours, but I do believe there are forces determined to feed us with misinformation and that there are people who are quite able to exploit others without the slightest concern about the effects of their actions on others. I think Greta Thunberg has been elevated into something well beyond what we need and I agree that turning her into an object of veneration is very unhealthy. However, her status has been defined by a machine that consumes and defaecates out what does not nourish its corporate needs. We see this happen repeatedly, particularly in the UK, where we are very accomplished at pushing someone up on to a pedestal where they become an easier target at which to throw stones until we smash our idol into pieces.


    I spent a day with a London cabbie recently who said that the stoppages earlier this year cost him a lot of money. I understand and sympathise with that. In the past I have had to decide whether to cross a picket line to be able to work. On at least one occasion the picket was nothing to do with my line of work, (we just happened to be based in the same building), but I felt that next time around the employer could be coming for me, so I didn't attempt to access my workplace that day or any of the other days action was taking place. This is all part of the game that pits us against each other and the next layer up in the food chain watches us destroy ourselves. So, we do what we feel we must, but I don't think we need to feed into the monster that has decided whether or not our motives are honourable. Sneering at a group of older people who happen to have time and feel sufficient motivation to take a stand is not helpful in my view.


    People are forced to come into "our city" for all sorts of reasons. I try to avoid it as much as I can, but I don't, for example, hear many complaints from London-born musicians about their work being taken over by "middle-class wannabes" who have to leave far nicer places in their home regions to get work in the capital's orchestras, theatres and clubs. Opportunities for some kinds of work simply do not exist in all regions. I was not happy to leave my lovely fenland floating home to spend many days fighting for something I believe to have been a just cause last year. It cost me work and I had to find somewhere to stay and money for food and rent, because London is where Parliament is located. I will admit to feeling some resentment that hundreds of people in the Fens who will be directly affected by the changes in the law I was fighting could not be motivated to get up and say something, or even write a letter and left it to five of us to take the heat (a postie, a delivery driver, a care worker, a bar-worker and a musician - ah yes, we, the bourgeoisie!).


    I guess people choose to stay in London (the place of my birth as it happens) for varied convenient reasons. To talk about "outsiders coming into London to mess up our city" sounds like some people want it all ways. I take some rough with the considerable smooth of living in a remote place, but I've made my choice and I'm happy with that choice. I would imagine that other people can be happy with theirs.


    As I mentioned, I continue to question the extent to which I can personally support some of the actions taking place. The local XR group has been discussing its tactics in raising awareness and influencing behaviours without alienating members of the population who have yet to realise the seriousness of the existential threat and the potential power they have to influence change. XR is a young movement and from what I have seen is learning. For my own part I could say. "Sorry for the inconvenience", but you know I wouldn't say it sincerely. I have been on far too many demos, rallies and actions that have been completely ignored by the mainstream media. Misguided it may be (I think the jury is going to be out on that for a while longer), but the XR action in London did at least attract some attention.


    I guess we are all here because we care about our planet. I'm doing what I think is appropriate and what I believe I can, but I am also trying to learn how to do better. Meanwhile, the water continues to rise and the earth is burning.

  • To a large extent i think theres a comparison with EXR and the prominent by-pass protests of the 80's/90's like Newbury and others.

    They were very prominent, confrontational,attracted a lot of media attention and support across a wide range of the population but they still got built.

    Non of the action did more than slow down progress and cause inconvenience and made security firms a lot of money.

    The reason they ultimately failed is because the majority of people want cars and to be able to travel from A to B with minimum congestion holdups.

    Ergo the destruction of land over which bypasses went was little more than a necessity to allow themselves to continue to travel with minimum inconvenience and not alter their lifestyle in any way.


    The same applies with climate change. People routinely express concern and the wish that something should be done but in reality not many are willing to make the necessary dramatic changes to their lifestyles and consuming habits because they kind of like the way they live and these climatic weather events are happening to people in foreign parts so ' its not really that urgent is it! '


    Im not saying ExR shouldnt be trying to change minds but I dont think inconveniencing the people whose minds youre intent on swaying is a great way of presenting facts or pushing change.

    The reality is people will act only when the water is lapping at their door....then of course theyll be blaming government inaction and everyone else but themselves for their part in the disaster.

    Di occhi belli ne è pieno il mondo,ma di occhi che ti guardano con sincerità e amore, c'è ne sono pochi. :hippy:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NomadicRT ().

  • Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood; I have no objection to anyone, from anywhere in the world, coming to London to either visit, or to become a 'Londoner'.


    But, I think the only way we will make progress in investing in technology -- we need to change the food system, we need to change and move towards greener power and we need to look into affordable green transport that doesn't affect individual freedom and privacy.


    A big problem with the above, is that for the last 40 years we've been influenced and controlled by neoliberal conservatives (including New Labour) that have sold off our own resources and infrastructure, thus forcing us into the pockets of globalist corporations -- and they are the ones who should be targeted, rather than ordinary working class people.

  • i did sign up to ER in its early launch but quickly realised from the chatter on their social media that its not grassroots greenies its more a bunch of privileged whingers and hoorah henries so i left them.

    It was the attractive altruistic guilt soother for them who don't worry about their gargantuan credit card bills dahhhhling.


    At least that's how its been here in south somerset. Some of them holidayed on the UK mainland this summer ... Pats on backs all round.


    My mate says its a death cult. Round here they cut people off for bringing up natural reasons for climate change and will not discuss actual extinction rates...


    Some still buying cheap flights whilst proudly XR gushing ...


    Drowning in bullshit and hypochrisy

  • I didn't realise quite how much I've missed the discussions on here. It is really helpful to read the ideas and points of view of intelligent adults who make me think. Thanks for resurrecting UKH, Paul.


    I don't have a problem with XR not being a "grassroots greenies" type of outfit. We all have to start from somewhere. Dark greens will always be there too. It is their point of view that has begun to get environmental issues out onto a wider canvas and at least being discussed across a range of political parties and in groups like XR. Whether we are moving fast enough with making the "right" decisions is another matter. However self-congratulatory some XR groups might sound it seems to me that discussions are now taking place among groups of adults that did not exist previously. Eventually those groups will either fold or greater awareness of individual responsibility will dawn. By the sound of it, I have been more fortunate than some of you. The group with which I have come into contact sounds a little more aware than some of the others people on here have experienced. Even so our group has some members very impatient for more disruptive action.


    I live below sea-level and pretty much everyone around here will be affected when sea-level changes kick in. We are attending council meetings and and getting items on to the agenda with the intention of getting local authorities to declare a climate emergency, so we can then hold them to account for decisions they make. We have a number of members now functioning as elected members on local councils. One of the ludicrous propositions we think we can reverse on this basis is a proposed new road through the Waveney Valley. Our actions here have also targeted multi-national businesses. I mentioned Barclays Bank. The die-in happened outside a West Norfolk branch. The "bodies" were placed so as not to block access to the bank, although we did slow down the pedestrian traffic outside so we could inform people why we were taking action. Most people chose not to engage with us, but a lot of people did. In another action the group undertook a mass shop in a local Tesco and handed back all the plastic packaging in a stunt that was attended by the local press. In both cases the company managements were informed that we were coming and what we intended to do and why. An unintended consequence of both these actions and others is that employees are learning things about their companies they didn't know. I realise it would be naive to expect them to put their jobs on the line by making a nuisance of themselves, but a groundswell of discussion in the staffroom can become an added pressure to encourage change. The group has blocked traffic on occasion, but it has so far been for very limited periods (ten minutes or so) and the place has been chosen so that people claiming they are in an emergency situation can be pushed through. Maybe we've just been lucky, but most people forced to stop for a bit say they understand when it is explained why we are taking the action and that it is for a very specific period. Most seem to switch off an idling engine.


    At the moment, the local press is reporting dispassionately. I expect that attitude will change if and when action is stepped up, so it is a balancing act to try and keep opinion on our side for as long as possible. For me, the jury is out about whether this is the best use of my personal resources, but it is a step further on from even the significant changes I have made to my own travelling and consumption habits over the past decade or so. I have had to face up to the fact that if everyone went as far as I have (and I can probably do more still) it will not make sufficient difference. We have to find a better way of measuring our standard of living than by gross domestic product alone. The solutions, if there are any, are hugely complicated and require the cooperation of governments at all levels and a different way of conducting business. I am not optimistic that sufficient solutions will be addressed any time soon, but neither can I carry on with business as usual.

  • A good considered post, Marshlander.

    The solutions are indeed very complicated, and require a different business ethos from that we have been used to since the industrial revolution.


    Small-profit, tickover, mostly recycling businesses paying living wages would not go down well with the gross capitalists of today, who want bigger profits every passing year, and whether this is done by harm to the planet, or to people, or both, bothers them not at all.


    I can only see this green society coming about through a benevolent dictatorship and massive re-education, not only of economics but also of life values. At the present time I cannot see how this would happen, unless it were after a huge breakdown of society as we know it, or after a long and economically-crippling war. Both of which are indeed grim prospects.

  • Sorry Keith but the idea of - " benovalent ditatorship and massive re education " . Doesn't feel right . All dictatorships feel themselves to be benovalent , righteous and acting for good . Think this line of thought has been tried before and led to the genocide of millions , the byproduct of failed totalitarian , authoritarian , Orwellian theocracies .

  • Maybe im just stupidly old fashioned but there was a time when if you wanted to make a constructive argument for or against something, you gathered all the necessary indisputable facts you could and lobbied every possible avenue to bring about the change you sought.


    I cant help but feel the infantile pavement die-ins and other more aggressive tactics that are mostly causing inconvenience, annoyance or total bemusement only undermines the seriousness of the subject matter and confuses the message intent.


    Theres ample proven scientific evidence that climate change is occurring -regardless of its cause -and that all humans WILL be impacted and i would not think it terribly difficult to use that mass of evidence in a constructive way in a relentless campaign to sway politicians,media and corporate heads to pay some attention.


    How many people are in ExR? I would think way more than enough to create a substantial direct on-going online campaign to all corporates,supermarkets and politicians and by appearing on mainstream media on everything from plastic packaging,food air miles, globalisation,loss of local produce sourcing, environmental degradation etc etc that likely would have greater impact than achieved so far by bashing the public.


    If youre trying to make a serious point to someone theyre not going to take you very seriously lying on your back on the road pretending youre a dead fly.... or a dead anything, theyre just going to assume youre a loon with nothing better to do.


    Much of the current action interferes with,or inconveniences the very section of society from which youre trying to win friends,influence people and inspire change.


    Like i said, my initial interaction with ExR was not at all positive and despite my very strong eco ethos and desire to see change i remain completely unconvinced by ExR and their tactics.


    Whats concerning is that there are common complaints of bullying,railroading of the issue into pushing of a marxist authoritarian agenda in some quarters,both of which are unhelpful to furthering the ligitimate progress of proposals to deal with climate change and just allows denialists room and excuse to further undermine the message.

    Di occhi belli ne è pieno il mondo,ma di occhi che ti guardano con sincerità e amore, c'è ne sono pochi. :hippy:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NomadicRT ().

  • Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with certain comments.


    All dictatorships certainly don't consider themselves to be benevolent and good; at least, not for the majority of people who have to labour under their yoke. They are generally no more considerate of the fate of the masses than most hard-headed capitalists are. Dictatorships are, like capitalism, generally run for the benefit of the few, at the expense of the many.


    Perhaps the idea of a benevolent dictatorship is unknown to some on here, or perhaps you know it by another name.

    So perhaps one or two examples might help.

    During the last world war, most western countries ran under what amounted to something like a benevolent dictatorship. All political parties were involved in this to greater or lesser degrees. Although conditions were tough, and most food and many other supplies were rationed, everybody got enough to eat, because a benevolent dictatorship had introduced rationing and price fixing, so everyone had the essentials, and nobody starved. And to look at public health during that period of rationing, public health as a whole was better then than it ever was in the period before, and in the period ever since.


    This is how a benevolent dictatorship works. Farmers grow what they are told, suppliers can make no more than a reasonable profit. Companies are told what they will be making and at what profit margin they will be operating. Any that cannot or will not do as they are told are simply taken over by the state, which doesn't need to make a big profit, just sufficient to cover running costs, capital costs, and, in some circumstances, R&D.

    Nobody at the top getting paid £250,000 a year, and nobody at the bottom getting less than a decent living wage.

  • Maybe im just stupidly old fashioned but there was a time when if you wanted to make a constructive argument for or against something, you gathered all the necessary indisputable facts you could and lobbied every possible avenue to bring about the change you sought.


    I cant help but feel the infantile pavement die-ins and other more aggressive tactics that are mostly causing inconvenience, annoyance or total bemusement only undermines the seriousness of the subject matter and confuses the message intent ...

    I quite agree with you, NRT, that that is possible. It is made even more possible by much of the so-called main-stream media run by people who have a lot to lose if messages such as those being promoted by XR capture sufficient public imagination. Anyone that has been active in political activism over any length of time will know that messages, both truths and falsehoods, are pushed on to the majority of the public who weren't there by a handful of newspapers and the BBC. Public opinions become shaped by what they are told, which become magnified in the retelling. The MSM were very patient over decades telling lies about the curvature of bananas, loss of sovereignty and immigration. We all know how that played out by 2016.


    By no means do I think that XR is the whole answer, but it has motivated people I've never before seen being active in engaging with environmental politics and has got people in the street talking in a way that I have not seen before. The table in the local shopping centre on a Saturday loaded with leaflets and a clipboard petition is ignored by most people. Most people don't even bother to find out what we're saving this week. If, however, one is asked, "What the hell are you doing?" it can start a conversation that would very likely not otherwise be had. That is when one has a chance to rehearse the arguments and facts and send someone away with a leaflet to back it up. Some of these people might even read it. I also think that there is the likelihood that many people involved in XR will develop more sophisticated means of getting the news out there. I accept that having a lie down will be as far as some people may get but, unless methods become more sophisticated, there will soon come a time when such actions will become as easily ignored as the Saturday morning petitions.


    I'm only fluttering around the edges of XR, but I have attended a couple of public meetings that have frustrated the hell out of me. I don't understand how one can be "fighting for the planet's survival" and still be talking about continued consumption. Greenwashed consumption lite is still consumption. I don't consider myself a deep green activist. I simply try to be aware enough, like most of us I suspect, to do what I can to reduce my impact on the world around me. I am acutely aware that I could and should be doing more and carry the shame of my own hypocrisies with me everywhere. I do realise though that however much any of us does on an individual basis will never be enough while there are a few getting fat off the results of actions that are condemning the rest of us to a future that we are barely able to contemplate.


    So, if I see XR reaching more people through their stunts, it is progress, however small. I suspect whatever any of us is doing will prove to be too late anyway. The science of climate change is moving events along even faster than most of us feared.

  • I suppose arguably it could be compared to hippy flower power protests of the 60's and 70's who werent exactly from ordinary working class backgrounds.


    Interesting that protesting about climate change they all have manmade synthetic yoga mats.:/

    Di occhi belli ne è pieno il mondo,ma di occhi che ti guardano con sincerità e amore, c'è ne sono pochi. :hippy:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by NomadicRT ().

  • I think it's narcissism, an excuse to show how 'woke' you are and pose for selfies.


    Thus far I've heard reports of a chemo patient who had to walk 30 minutes so he could get his taxi home from the hospital, and a video of an old man hobbling over the bridge because he couldn't get public transport to his own hospital appointment.


    Of course there's a comparison with historical sit-ins and the like -- but the consequences were way less harmful. However, these people seem to be comparing themselves with marginalised groups and historical movements like those of Martin Luther King, The Suffragettes or Ghandi.


    Not sure how many of those would be doing yoga in the street.

  • I was on the train with a bunch of XR activists 3 weeks ago travelling from the SW to the SE. The clobber one girl was wearing must have set mummy and daddy back no less than 5 hundred quid (I haven't spent that much on clothes in the last 5 years) and she was waving around what she told her friends was a brand new top of the range iPhone. Listening to their conversation it appears that Tristan's daddy was sending the Beemer to collect them at Exeter St David's. Not one of them really understands the implications of stopping climate change and not a one of them is ready to give up the very things that are causing climate change. It's all new and very exciting and makes them feel like rebels. Give it 10 years and they'll look back on this as a bit of a giggle. The planet will survive us. It's survived everything nature has thrown at it. It'll be different but that's always been the case. Will we survive. Maybe, maybe not but in the words of Commander Bill Adama of the Battlestar Galactica (the reboot) We have to ask ourselves, Do we DESERVE to survive. Climate change I take very seriously XR? Not so much.