Extinction Rebellion

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UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • I don't think it's purely down to people being lazy.,....I should be forbidden from attempting any psychoanalytical stuff because I always fluff it. However:-

    "Chores" resonates with everyone because we all have them and nobody likes them....

    "Division of labour" is rarely equal within any situation where it should be shared.

    After those two examples all I can do is point out "kink" and only save myself from getting too deep into it by gently suggesting that the obvious power games and rewards are usually at play.

    Can't play sexual/emotional/power games with a machine though! Machines purely save on actual labour.. ... Folk do talk to their machines though so maybe that's another less developed kink that deserves psychoanalysis[panic]:insane::vomit:

  • I don't think it's totally laziness either. It's also partly complete ignorance of using hand tools, probably because people weren't taught at school, and there were no apprenticeships afterwards. And of course it is also what is thought to be the 'norm' in society at any given time. So if it is thought to be normal to use a machine for everything, even cleaning your teeth, most people try, subconsciously or otherwise, to conform to peer pressure and also use a machine.

    Sometimes I walk around our local market when they have a vintage bygones day, and I see expensive old tools offered as collectors pieces, and reflect that I have quite a few of these hand tools at home, still in weekly use.....:whistle:

  • Lack of skill and willingness to practice to acquire said skills is certainly an issue.

    If you couldnt saw a straight cut with a handsaw in school woodwork youd get a slap.

    People tend to acquire power tools believing it will instantly make them a pro.

    Hand producing an item is a skill lost to most in Western world.....but still thriving in developing world (for now).

    I still think theres a degree of laziness.

    People just dont want to put in effort or time to learn skills,they just expect a computer to do it for them in a few minutes.

    While that might have its attractions its thousands of years of age old manual manufacturing skills of previous generations completely lost....to a keyboard skill.

    If we did have a situation where we had no power for computers who would build stuff from scratch or repair it.?

    We live in a world of fitters, joiners and assemblers,very few know how to make even simple items from scratch.

  • A few years ago, when I built myself an allotment shed from pallets, I had no battery power tools. So putting in lots of big screws by hand would have been a bit of a killer. So I thought a bit, and used what they used to call appropriate technology. I had a good ratchet set for working on vans, so I just fitted a drill driver holder, attached driver bits, and the screws went in pretty damn easy, if not so quick as with a power driver.

    Appropriate technology was talked about quite a lot in alternative circles at one time. It didn't mean you couldn't ever use machines - far from it. It meant you gave thought first, and then used or invented - the most local, most inexpensive, and most environmentally-friendly solution to your problem. An oft-quoted example was villages in India using human and animal manure to generate gas for cooking and heating; the by-product of this process was used as organic manure.

    The issue of human laziness is an odd one. At our Shed one time recently I was approached by a retired electrician who wanted to learn woodwork, but complained everyone was kind of too helpful:

    As an easy starter job, someone had told him to make bird boxes and garden planters. He found that when he went for a hand saw, somebody saw him start using it, and said no, just cut the patterns on the chop-saw over here, I'll show you how. So this other guy cut his blanks for him on the chop-saw. When he went to screw them together with a hand screwdriver, somebody else jumped on him and said no, that's slow, use a power driver, I'll show you how. So this second guy quickly screwed the pieces of wood together. Next he started to sand off any rough edges with a sanding block, and somebody else said hey, that's hard work, bring your job over to the belt sander, I'll show you how to do it. And in no time, they were done.

    'I really wanted to learn woodwork to enjoy it, to get the skill of using hand tools, to get some kind of satisfaction out of learning to do it myself.' Said the retired electrician. ' But all I've learnt is how to rush through it, as if I was on piece work; there's no satisfaction in that!'

    So is this a habit acquired in our piecework-mad workplaces, that carries over into retirement for some people? What is the end result in gaining a few minutes in doing the job more quickly; what do you do with that time? Gas with your mates a bit longer? But when you're retired you can do that anyway, any time. Where is the satisfaction in rushing the job, unless of course you hate the job? In which case WTF are you doing it for anyway?

  • Putting up a long garden shelf (for pot plants) recently, I used a rather grubby low-tech builders' spirit level, which the O/H found abandoned in the street some time ago.

    Instead of buying a spanking new modern flash-looking laser level at £200 or so from the local Screwfix.:thumbup:

    We also have a low-tech solar-powered, wind-assisted, environmentally-friendly clothes drier. It's called a clothes line.:D

    Instead of a very expensive, high-tech, possible fire-risk, electric tumble drier.

    Appropriate technology pays. Unnecessary technology costs.

  • Exactly,and why i feel the ER crew are on the wrong tack,they should be putting their energy into selling the arguement that we can all make a difference by changing extravagant consuming habits and being more self sufficient and less wasteful. Government wont change or be 'bullied' by protesters while the majority of the population clearly dont give a shit about the planet or their wasteful consuming.

  • Yes, true enough. The planet will be here long after the people are gone. The dinosaurs were here for around 165 million years before they got wiped out, but the planet carried on well without them. Whatever surface damage we teeming bacteria do, no doubt the planet will repair itself, given time.

  • In a quirk of fate I ended up at the Marble Arch camp on Tuesday -- I needed to collect a van from nearby, and wandered onto the camp to use their makeshift toilet.

    It wasn't working, so I wandered down to the nearest Pret where it was overrun by hippy types needing to wash and clean their teeth. :D

    Actually a great bunch of people tbh - nice vibe all round.

    But then I got stuck in traffic for two hours!

    I was only travelling 6 miles too, and I wasn't the only one stuck too -- which seems to completely defeat the aims of the people camped up there! :/

  • You're quite right convoy, nobody is disagreeing with that. I have a cordless dril/driver myself, and it's very useful for working away from the flat, in the garden, and other odd jobs, especially with aging hands.

    But if you knew you only had to tighten two latch screws in your garden gate, would you get out your battery drill box and cart it down to the gate, and then cart it back inside afterwards, or would you just put a hand screwdriver in your pocket next time you are going to the gate?

    It's about using a level of technology that is appropriate to the occasion, that's all.

    No, it's not really off thread, because this is the sort of thing that people who are protesting, and people who are listening to them, need to be thinking about, and putting into practice in their daily lives.

    Greta Thunberg is a good example, insisting on traveling by public transport to different countries, instead of flying on every possible occasion, like some so-called environmentalists.

  • A thought struck me. With all of the people protesting, holding up traffic for hours and stopping public transport from functioning by direct action, I wonder how much the levels of pollution rose during the protest as a result?

  • Some of you lot are unbelievable ... these people are trying to protect our planet whilst you lot slag them off for their direct actions.

    WHAT ARE you DOING exactly?

    These people are risking a lot to do this, they risk their finances being fucked about with, they risk their necks and get arrested and all you lot can say is what an inconvenience.

    Protests are supposed to be an inconvenience. If they weren't nobody would take any notice.

    Some of the comments on here make me sick to share the same air space as you lot.

  • They annoy the piss out of me.

    If you're on the road in London during the day then there's every chance you need to be there for your livelihood -- obstructing ordinary working class people will alienate them against an otherwise really important cause.

    I can not believe you said this.... What good is a protest if all the protesters meet up in a flecking play park and have a picnic. The whole point of a demo or protest is to get it in to the public eye cause a big inconvenience just like the one being caused to OUR PLANET...

    You don't have kids do you Paul?

  • Its called having an opinion.Ive been a member of FOE and Greenpeace for decades,ive been going on demos and protests for 40+ years and non of them have made much if any palpable difference to government or corporate eco policy.

    For the most part weve been regarded as cranks and nutters by the mainstream media and wider society.

    Now a few people in ER sit down in the street and get arrested,suddenly its only them thats ever attempted to make a difference.

    Ive also been recycling and environment conscious since the 70's and trying to make a difference as many others in the eco environment conscious movement have and been stonewalled by officialdom and society.

    If they in ER want to get arrested and cause disruption because thats how they think things will get changed,good luck to them.

    I happen to disagree from my experience and think they could achieve more effective results using different tactics.

  • I dont have any magic solutions,most have been tried already.

    People generally dont respond much to threats of impending doom,they only respond to things that directly affect them in their neighbourhood.

    People live in bubbles of denial,that nothing will harm them. Which is why hundreds if not thousands remain in the area of impending volcanic eruptions,floods,wars disease or hurricanes because theyre the chosen one with superpowers and a hotline to God so will be saved.

    The same applies to climate change.

    Everyone pretty well knows that weather is more extreme, violent and devastating than it was 20 or 30 years ago due to a rise in global temperatures but remain convinced non of these effects will affect them or that they somehow might need do anything to change their consuming lifestyle or that they are in anyway responsible for any of it.

    People see thousands of tons of plastic in an ocean bay but non of it is caused by them...even though its been found much of the plastic comes from as far back as the 60's and 70's from every corner of the world....but they havent done it, its someone else did it.

    Change wont come significantly until large chunks of the population are directly affected by climate change.

    The rich lose their Florida coast condo's to hurricanes and their homes in California to drought induced fires merely causes some perverse amusement to the population at large.

    When whole coastlines are inundated regularly, displacing middle class residential communities, the luxury tropical holiday islands vanish, Wall street,City of London,Paris, Amsterdam etc gets flooded,crops fail,water and food gets rationed etc people will start to take notice and demand action....but it will be too late then.

    Governments already know the consequences of doing nothing,theyve been planning for a long time to preserve their own integrity but they wont act for the benefit of all of us unless the whole of their respective countries populations demand it and at the moment people just dont want to change their lifestyles or feel threatened.

    How do you wake people up who dont want to be woken! 😕

    Maybe we need some grotesque imagery on food packaging - like with cigarette packs - of piles of starved dead children and dead fish poisoned and suffocated by plastic....people need to be exposed to the reality 24/7 but it isnt going to happen just yet. Truth is uncomfortable so must be avoided at all cost.

  • There is a large awakening already happening globally. Environmental/ spiritual/ political awakening.

    Have faith the cavalry is coming from another planet. lol! ;-)

    I do hope so I so want to believe that friendly aliens will help us out.

    I have had some pretty weird spiritual stuff happening to me for the past year.

    I had a vision ( premonition / download) Call it what you will.

    It was of two large swathes of the population in two separate continents wiped out ( within seconds ) by something big and something that happens quick.

    I have no idea if the wipe out is environmental or warfare but its going to happen soon - my guesstimate is within the next year.

    Mozabique was not one of them, my premonition of a population wipe out was on a much bigger scale than that sadly.

  • You been reading 'Childhood's End' again, treestump? The SF book by Arthur C. Clarke, where Earth is taken over by a benevolent alien dictatorship that is capable of issuing instant karma?

    It's one of my favourites, too.

    But as I have said before on here, the hour grows late for this civilisation, and the crystal ships do not come.

    (It doesn't mean they aren't coming, of course, but the odds are pretty small. We may be not much more, to ineffable intelligences, than the bacteria in a Petri dish).

  • Its a sobbering fact few people contemplate,that the majority of folks are only two pay cheques from homelessness and the world (thanks to air travel) is only 24 hours from a global pandemic.

    3 days from global technology wipeout by a solar event and return to the dark ages.

    3 days from empty food shelves because the entire supply system works to 'Just in time' deliveries.

    Our entire system can collapse and under martial law in 7 days.

    We live in permanent denial that nothing will affect our lives and that civilisation as we know it is permanent.

    Nothing is permanent. Impermanence is the way of the universe.

    Btw bubonic plague is in Mongolia...just thought you might like to know.