• I recently read a book called Windows of the Mind - The Christos Experiment which explores the possibility of reincarnation. Individuals are taken through a guided meditation process before experiencing past life regression. I think it's an interesting read even if you don't believe in reincarnation as the individual experiences were fascinating to read about - it wasn't full of people claiming to be Anne Boleyn.

    I was just wondering if anyone on this forum believes in reincarnation or has any thoughts on the subject?

    N.B I haven't tried the experiment properly but I did work through the meditation sequence one night before going to sleep and I had the most bizarre dreams about watching a sacrifice in an ancient stone circle, but that could have just been from eating cheese.

  • Laying my cards on the table, I am wary about the idea of reincarnation. Interestingly you do mention the lack of Ann Boleyns and it is the troubling recurrence of famous historical characters being claimed as previous lives that puts me off the idea of reincarnation as a whole.

    The rub is that many religions and philosophical belief systems believe wholeheartedly in reincarnation. Can they all be wrong? I hope not as it gives much hope to many and the idea that "when you're dead you're dead" is a bleak outlook at best.

  • I know what you mean Firestarter, nobody who says they've been reincarnated ever says " I used to be Peter Smith from Leeds in a past life"

    Maybe the past was just full of famous people and there weren't any just ordinary folk....

  • To begin with, if there is to be any purpose to us being here in the universe, reincarnation appears to be one of the more logical of the belief systems.

    Look into the ramifications more deeply, however, and one begins to realise that, if it were not an entirely automatic universal natural process, it would involve an incredibly structured hierarchy of beings at many different levels to administer it.

    I don't 'believe' in anything religious or even spiritual. I would like to hope that there is a higher purpose to our being here, and that there are even good reasons for this, but what these might be we cannot as humans begin to comprehend.

    One interesting thing about the concept of reincarnation is that it is not exclusively religious. Several religions claim a belief in reincarnation - even the early christians did - but this does not make it a religious matter, any more than the possibility of life after death is a religious matter.

  • Problem Oldkeith is summed up in your opening sentence "if there is any purpose to our being here".

    I'm not convinced that there is a purpose. If I could see there was I would be more able to embrace the idea of reincarnation (and I wish I could embrace it more as if this shitty existence is all there is I want a refund) :)

  • If you are having a shitty existence , then you have to get off your arse and change that.

    If people do not believe in reincarnation-afterlife or any other similar concept,then they really need to work harder in making this life great.

    I am very open minded to the possibility of reincarnation but also like to be open minded to all posibilites and one of those is that there may be no afterlife or second chance,so I make sure that I am always doing what the hell I want to be doing and am always happy.

    It is achieveable if you put your mind to it,like everything really :flowerpower:

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  • Oldkeith - That's a really interesting point, if reincarnation does occur than it isn't because of any religious belief system. I'd never really considered that view point before.

    I was having a read about the subject the other day and I was surprised to find that reincarnation was mentioned in the kabbalah and early versions of the bible but it was edited out at some point. I suppose it didn't fit with trying to frighten peasants into obedience with the prospect of eternal damnation.

    I'm sat on the fence with regards to my view point on reincarnation. I do find it fascinating to read about but only the stories where people claim to have lived fairly ordinary lives. As others have said already, there must be a lot of people claiming to have been Elizabeth the First or some other well known monarch. In the book I read there was a story of one person claiming to be a lonely fisherman who felt very isolated and was on a cycle of reincarnation until he found the family he desired and longed for.

    By complete serendipity I was offered a guidance/healing session today, it isn't something I've tried before but as it was free it seemed a good opportunity to try it out. The healer spoke a lot about childhood memories and releasing an energetic weight which was possibly left over from a previous lifetime. It wasn't specific in terms in terms of saying I used to be called Dave and lived in Bridlington. She said that people may come into this life with a burden of energy or threads that are still connecting us to a previous existence that need to be broken.

    If reincarnation is real then I don't necessarily think it relates to fulfilling a specific role or purpose in life. I see of more as a growth or learning cycle.

    Either way, as a thought experiment it's quite interesting.

  • It is natural that people with a logical turn of mind show interest in the world about them, and in turn ponder where they might have come from before they found themselves here, and where they may go after they leave this place.

    There is not so far concrete evidence either for or against the existence of anything more that is within ourselves than our biological structures, which are basically a collection of cells living in bags of water carried on a skeletal framework. Quite the same as most lifeforms here. So if we really have some kind of higher self that comes and goes here, we must give thought to the possibility that every other lifeform has the same, to a lesser or greater degree.

    So if we begin to think about the possibility of any kind of reincarnation, we inevitably face the question: Why? For what reason to come here, time and time again?

    The growth of experience, and of learning, are the two standard answers.

    Which raise the questions 'For what ultimate reasons are we having these life experiences, and learning through having them?'

    In eastern religions, 'karma', the rule of return, is also invoked. Karma, as used in religious circles, has a bad side as well as a good one, and has been used to ignore at best, and repress at worst, people much lower down the social scale than those in charge of these religions.

    But like reincarnation and the possibility of an afterlife, karma is not exclusively a religious concept. Some kind of karma could be a purely mechanical or electrical process that is inherent in the universe, perhaps in the same kind of way that reincarnation and before-life and after-life existences may be.

    Biological nature has a cycle of return at every level. It wastes nothing. At a much expanded level, a level that we do not yet appreciate, perhaps the universe may be operating the same. I would like to think so.

  • The problem with this Oldkeith is that it seems an almost unprovable conundrum. If someone were to (genuinely) return from the dead and made a claim to that effect, they would almost certainly be accused of some sort of mental aberration and not be taken seriously. Likewise when people claim to have lived before the jury is divided by people who accept and people who are openly sceptical (like I have been earlier in the thread).

    Is it possible to argue the reincarnation does occur, and that there is proof, in as much as when does and is buried, amoeba etc consumer our physical body and the ground is fertilised by our physical matter, plants grow (or at least thrive more) as a result. But that is a long way from returning as a sentient being and that, I think, is real definition of reincarnation.

    I suspect the concept of reincarnation is similar to that of an afterlife in that we are cursed as sentient beings by the heavy weight of awareness of mortality and subconsciously seek some kind of hope of escape from that ultimate stark fate.

  • That has always been the problem with religion,ideology,spirituality and faith is that it is something that can not be proven.

    Yet people swear by the power of love and insist that they love you,their kids,pets,partners etc , yet there can be no proof of this love actually existing yet most people believe in it as it makes them feel good.

    Point being if someone says either I love you,god is great or I believe in reincarnation they are not wrong as it is what they believe and in their world it is a real concept and may be true.

    What is true in someones reality may be untrue in someone elses,it just depends if you accept it as the truth.

    reincarnation may well happen to us all and it may not,and there will never be an answer to prove who is correct,or at least I can not see that answer being able to hold water under some peoples scrutiny !!

    I think that one should believe in what they feel is good and right and be allowed to believe in it , as who the hell are we to say that they are wrong,are we god !!!!!!!!!!!

    I think that makes sense anyway , or at least it does in my reality and thats what matters :whistle:

  • I'm not sure about reincarnation as described as being a different person in the past. If you take the physics view that no energy can be destroyed but it can be changed then maybe it's the energy that becomes transmuted. I have always had a sense of place. In different parts of the country I often feel the energy there. It can be emotionally moving in both negative or positive ways. I stood on the top of the castle hill at Fotheringay and the deep sense of sadness there is overwhelming. I doubt I was ever living there but the energy of that place is pretty strong if you're open to it.

  • That is interesting, Firestarter. As you say, the 'real' definition of reincarnation is the survival of something more than the physical bones and tissues of the body.

    In order to do that, we would have to be more than just the physical beings that we see ourselves as, in this space-time continuum. If we are, the universe could not waste whatever energy that might be.

    The difficulty is made worse because there are no other intelligent species here with whom we can communicate these ideas, and benefit by an exchange of views and experiences.

    So far as I know, we have not yet met anyone from a more advanced civilisation than ours, which has perhaps discovered or become aware of the answers to some of our questions.

    (This in itself is rather odd, because the universe has been around well long enough for advanced civilisations to have arisen and journeyed between the stars, and set up vast interstellar networks, even using vehicle speeds well below the speed of light. This is called The Fermi Paradox, as you are probably aware).

    So far as energy transference is concerned, Happyfat, there is a concept in one of the eastern religions that whatever is our learning and experience here is not lost, but goes forth at the time of our death and 'goes home' to the higher being from which we were sent forth, which then absorbs them as its own learning. Rather like being a character in a multi-player game, for one lifetime only. Not a view our Egos might like, to be sure!

  • How very strange, that takes me back almost forty years! I read that book and tried the process on myself (somebody else doing it to me) and I tried it on a few people. I'm sure it's the same book, though I can't find it on Amazon at the moment, and my copy is buried in a stack somewhere. (It's quite short, less than two hundred pages.)

    This is a long time ago, but from memory: The person has to lie on the ground, you massage the person's ankles, then you massage their temples (I think, or somewhere on their head). They have to physically relax, and when they are in a 'state' you try to coax them out of their body by stages, saying certain things to them. First they raise out of their body. Then they have to imagine staring at their own front door (because it's easy, they have looked at it often enough), staring at the front door enough so they are actually outside their house. They can then raise up and whizz off to another place and maybe another time. I could be mixing up bits of different books.

    It didn't work on me or my friend of the same age, but my firend's sister was younger - maybe about 9? And she said it totally worked and she described everything, travelling to another place and vague recollections of who she was in another life, she said it was odd and exciting. I really can't remember the details and I never knew if she was being kind to me or joking - or if it really worked.

    Beside what the actual experience was purposed, the book taught me to see beyond the confines of my body and senses. Similarly I often wonder what a blind person's consciousness would be like ( a world of hearing and the other senses having much more prominence). Our realities are so bound, and in a way subverted by sight. Sight takes over our reality perception and, in a way, it can be said to distort / limit / contain our realities. Closing your eyes can liberate - and it is interesting to understand why that is liberating. Sometimes, I close my eyes and I do a sort of Christos Experience of reality - a reality beyond sight. I travel around my sightless world taking the world of happenings in through the other senses. It's interesting, how your consciousness can exercise itself in this way.

    I definitely believe in reincarnation and always have. I remember as a child listening to the radio about two twin sisters who would discuss having died in a fierce fire (and it was the possibility of their past lives). That was the first time I heard the word reincarnation and I thought oh, there is a word for it. Because basically I don't believe in 'death' - never have, it goes very deep and it's not wishfull thinking as some like to say to me. I don't fear death and eternal life has its own responsibilities.

    So, Christos Experience - I don't know whether mine is the same book Rosewood. Part of me wonders why we don't know these things, the specifics of reincarnation - is it simply that we are not supposed to know? Or have we turned our backs on core beliefs which open up certain paths? The Christos Experience didn't reveal my past life to me - but it did affect me, and was one of the books which shaped the way I think about consciousness and excercise it.

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  • "If reincarnation is real then I don't necessarily think it relates to fulfilling a specific role or purpose in life. I see of more as a growth or learning cycle." Rosewood

    I tend to think if reincarnation exists, then life is too grand for it not to have a purpose. However clumsy life can be, it is very amazing when you consider it in entirety. [Using the word "life" can be deceptive. Life is not an external thing, it is within us (all). Then we use the word as a generic thing, "life" as though it is a force of some sort, but never externalise it: that is what theology does . . . life is an internal thing.] I definitely see benefit in having purpose, but I think I know what you mean that we don't have to have specific roles, sometimes we don't know what our purpose is (or care), and sometimes we discover we were wrong all the time . . .

    What's the point of what? Crossing the road? A match? A shoe? An ice cream. I don't know what you are talking about when you say what is the point? Apart from you losing your path a bit (?) I used to say the point is at the end of the sentence. <---- see that's the point. (I have many more of those, it drives people crazy.)

    Purpose can be a tricky one. Often the problem is that some jaded people think they deserve a purpose. It is said that poor people, working a hard life, people in the third world (it sounds condescending to say it like this) . . . they don't suffer certain mental illnesses, because they have to get on with the business of living. The opposite has been said about feminism as well, that it is a mental illness, mainly affecting middle class western women stuck in their homes (don't take that at surface value).

    Purpose. What's the point? The times that question has been said, sometimes as a lament: Why?!!!!! Imagine if there's no choice. Everything exists. There is no death. We are bound to the constant reinvention of reality, just as we invent purpose. Some are better than others at it.

    I look at Trump and his wife. . . oh, why even go there - let's go to the other extremity: people have infinite potential. Part of the problem is figuring out what people are as individuals and as a collective. What do we want to be? What do you want to be?

  • I'm not sure about reincarnation as described as being a different person in the past. If you take the physics view that no energy can be destroyed but it can be changed then maybe it's the energy that becomes transmuted. I have always had a sense of place. In different parts of the country I often feel the energy there. It can be emotionally moving in both negative or positive ways. I stood on the top of the castle hill at Fotheringay and the deep sense of sadness there is overwhelming. I doubt I was ever living there but the energy of that place is pretty strong if you're open to it.

    Absolutely, I am the same with places, things and people. everything is matter and energy and humans are that too, we have a symbiotic relationship with all things of matter and energy. Due to major social conditioning programmes instilled by our not so esteemed leaders means a lot of the natural existence of humans to be more open and aware of such things closes the mind to feel and be aware of such things. It wasnt that many years ago people were still considered mad or deranged, witches are a prime example, having a deeper understanding and a closer relationship with the natural order of things was seen as a crime and or an abberation. ~Once a person breaks down the confines and restricitons of mass social conditioning then one can re tune into more natural understandings and knowings and connections with a natural order of things. I am of the mind if one person can be psychic then we all can in varying degree's, its down to the set of the mind and being in a state to be responsive and tune in with a deeper relationship with the mind, social conditioning in it's many forms restricts and closes this deeper relatonship with the mind and the true 'self' and they know it.

  • Humans are the most intelligent species that we are aware of, that is questionable at times given some of the things we have done as a civilisation. The Sumerians were one of the earliest urban societies that emerged in Mesopotamia, it is widely noted in what is left of their cuneiform scripts and many carvings that have survived that they were said to have had a relationship with a race of peoples known as the Anunnaki, a giant peoples, ancient aliens, gods, actual people, who knows, ther eis only depicrtios and carvings but in relation to size, compared to the human figures in the carvings, they were giants, the writings of the Sumerians say they were vastly intelligent and and technological advances beyond their time, to note, it's only modern translation that we can rely on so you cant take it as read but why would there be so much of it all depicting giant people among humans. It is depicted the Anunnaki were a seperate being of a greater higher intelligence. Folk will have to read up on this to make their own mind up. If ther was only one depiction of a giant human among smaller humans then it could be said that it was one persons idea or imagination as in a one off painting, but in many and most of their carvings the same depictions are clearly visible.

    i do believe we have lost and are losing true human ability to have a greater knowing and connection with things of a higher realm of understanding. modern lif eof social conditioning, the things people have and do in their life, modern activites and jobs of work, schools all go a long way to keep a human mind closed to it's true potential, this id done on purpose, they dont want people openly thinking for themselves in an expanded spiritual, psychic way, why do you think psychedelics are a banned thing in law, they know full well it opens up otherwise closed pathways and links in the brain, thye say its because they are dangeroius, but they know it can open up the mind to its greater potential and they know folk start questioning the state of affairs between governments and citizens with the use of psychedelics and they dont want that to happen. I also believe in earlier times, natural psychedelics are quite majorly responsible for the advancement of the human mind but in modern times governents saw and knew this and the effect it can have on a person and they duly stamped on it.

    This is a half hour doc to highlight what I have just written, very interesting. folk who have delved into psychedelics and realised the true nature and effect on a person will fully get what I've written, it will be an eye opener to those that havent. knowledge is power.

  • This is entirely so, I have never heard of Christo's experience but instantly recognise it from elsewhere, what I've related it to is astral planing, leaving the human form as in the body and an inner part form the deeper aspects of our minds leaves and can then travel without the confines of the earthly vessel we reside in. You dont need anyone to massage your ankles etc, but it seems its one form to help manifest it in someone. I remember this happening loads as a kid without a helping hand form anyone else, I oftem used to see myself off out the door or window and flying elsewhere, then there was periods when school a sintroduced/forced upon me where it was not happening, but then a bit late rin life once got into psychedelics, it got remembered. Everyone has the abilites to tap into this sor tof experience but due to the nature of social conditioniong and programming it blocks all this off in a person, it's all by design, I used to get told by adults not be be so daft/stupid/ridiculous etc when I used to talk of such things and occurances I had as a kid. We are all able to shift beyond the confines of our bodies and senses but modern loife does not promote this, instead it goes a long way to restrict and keep it shut off, although things are changing rapidly in individuals en mass under their own volition, the massive worlwide movement (not a club or group) of universal conscienceness, its not a new thing, its a re awakening where many humans are now remebering and re discovering what we are really capable of as in awareness and a greater understanding of the self that is not part of the main stream dogma.

    What you say about a reality beyond sight is very interesting and important to know and experience within a human to gain a greater understanding of the self, going back to a previous thread, working with meditaiton and the binaural rhythms i told you about Maxal all tis in with this, psychedelics are very condusive to opening the mind and re mapping and connceting path ways that have not been enabled within the brain to be able to then experience and know of these things, the pineal gland is hugely responsible to be able to tap into this. I've been doing a lot of work with this in more recent times. It really is like this, I really believe the powers that be really dont want people to be in tune to this depth.

    Here is a beautiful 15 mins short to highlight this in depth, a must watch.

    As far as re-incanation goes, I am a total open book, going on the fact that energy cannot be destroyed and we are intrinsically energy and matter, we have no irrefutable proof but there have been extraordinary cases wher eit almost is irrefutsble, there was a case in India several years back, a young lad born into a rural village started telling his natural birth parents that he vivdly remembered dieing in an accident in recent times and left a wife and kids behind, he was telling them names, places and even the town/villsge he lived at including the address, it was a huge distance away, they had heard so much of it from him so they went on a journey there, and how and why is unexplainble but the facts he was giving them about this previous life, his wife, kids, job, his previous name, place he lived in the previous life was all there, they went to the house, a woman was there with the kids, in the house with the colour door he told them of, every single thing was in place, and the lady told the story of her husband and how he died which was exactly to the letter the boy was telling his current parents, given the lad was like 6-7 years old they just could not fathom how he would have known so much in depth information from such a great distance away, it's still open to interpretation, there has been other such occurences, how do we explain it, we cant, therefore we cant rule it out as bunkum.

    I'm not certain aboiut past life regression, its open to interpretation, but I do know the de ja vu feeling, for some bizarre reason, the one period in history where I feel so drawn to on a different level than just pure earth bound interest is the second world war era in the U.K. I'm not an officianado on it or study it or read loads of books and watch films on it, not that interested in it , but when its talked about on the radio or if I see pathe news reels, I feel such a big draw in a much deeper aspect of the psyche and a recognition of having been there, I dpont try to explain it as I cant, its just a knowing, many many people have the same thing with different times in history.

  • Had to split the above as too many characters, so to end.

    Here is a true story, well, not a story, a true occurance that happened to me. Have abbreviated it as the minute by minute account would not add to it. Several years ago I was down in Cornwall travelling, I went to a stone circle down on the south coast past Penzance, cant remember the name of it, but I wanted to visit. found the place and on walking through a line of overgrown hedge on a narrow path, the stone circle opened up. I walked three times clockwise and quieted the mind to tune into the energy of the circle then quietly stood at the heel stone over lookiong the sea. I close my eyes and just stood there feeling the place and the energy there, sort of tapping into the land, as was said in an above post, residual energy held throughout history in a place is there, too many people feel it to say not. anyway, I am stood there with my eyes closed, quietly, clear empty mind, almost a state of meditation, then the next thing I know bam, something kicked in and i stood ther elioke another sight jad taken over my mind. this is absolutely true, i had not imibed anything, was clear and straight, What I saw too my breath away but I held with it as it was that extraordinary, I cannot remember if I opened my physical eyes, dont think so but I saw it as if I had , I looked down and I was a totally different form, what I saw was this figure, taller than my physical body and I felt the physical prescence which was wearing a long flowing turquiosy shimmery cloak, leather sandle type things with thongiong wrapped round my calfs, leather wasitcoat type thing, gold bangle/rings up my arms with leather thonging wrapped round my fore arms, and long blond flowing hair, trust me, this is what I saw and felt, I was stood in the same place over looking the same spot at the sea, but I was honestly seeing this figure, I was even looking down and seeing the clothing i was in, I can safely say if I was to put a time of history on it, it would have to have been at around the time of Uther and maybe before when the land was all kings and knights of old. I can still see it in my minds eye it was that real, it was more than photographic, in this vision or whatever it was, I could feel the wind blowing, smell the sea air, all my senses were workiong to the full, it wasnt just an hallucination, I had this trasformation into another figure, my real physial self was there as i was with someone who was a distance away, they just saw me, but what I was witnessing and experiencing in my mind was a majorly different thing, what I saw and felt was of a different time and it all ties in to the era and the place I stood. I cant put a scientific explanation on it, I dont feel we can as some things like this at the moment and perhaps for all time are beyond science. I have had some very profound experiences in my life but this one is the most profound.

  • wizardluv - that's a grand documentary on 23. Is there a way of recording it onto DVD so I can watch it properly on TV? This multi media state we are in is great, but sometimes tiring, having to watch things on laptops etc.

    You say a lot above, so I can't address it all. First of all the account of your experience at Penzance is very lucid / amazing. It's great you are open to perception in such a way.

    Though you might be right, I don't think there is a conspiracy of government and I don't think it's the most useful way of describing their ignorance and pitiable lack of vision. They are doing a job and from what I see our Western systems aren't too bad when you look at the numbers which have to live in relative harmony and the historical options. Yes: roll in something better! A system which will allow billions of disagreeable people to get on, people who want different things vehemently. Where is it? [A real evolution of consciousness could supply the engine for that need.] Humans often move in erratic, uncontrolled ways due to systems they create, but of which they are not fully in control. It's unfortunate. It would be great to rise above our own system-creation, but all to often we are defeated by ourselves. So, I think the conspiracy is less conspiracy, more submission to ignorance, not yet being fully evolved - or tuned in.

    Greed and power motivate and support the Powers that Be and legitimise / justify their acts in the continuation of capitalism. See how we continue to vote them in (true: not you, but you could vote green ;)). Swan-in Trump with his promises, beguiling wigasquiff and gorgeous tongueless wife - how perfect! They defend their way of thought / being on an individual level. They also pull their efforts together, forming the bizarre state they do (I don't want to get too much into it).

    It's a natural human thing to defend a way of being, and it is always up to the oppressed to rise and confront with a better, stronger, more durable way. Along the way, perhaps our struggle and what some interpret as disastrous mistakes will be the backbone of not slipping back into mistake . . .

    This is knit-picking of how we perceive the problem but part of me thinks the dialectics are important. I know what you mean, it does seem as though they all pull together and conspire, because they do end up siding and battling the other in a kind of conspiracy (so why do I deny the idea of a planned conspiracy?) (I don't totally know). Inevitably we rise up to their demands and fight back. Ultimately, I feel thinking like that might contribute to the idea of human progress being a polarised war, inevitably making each side more antagonistic compelling each side to fight harder. And I don't think it is a polarised war: just the opposite - that perception is what limits us.

    Perhaps that is the problem: if we are ONE consciousness, at some point we have to truly grasp the notion of its meaning - tune in. Stop allowing the enemy; the few self-seeking perverts or misfits to distract, divide and conquer. Note that it is the minority who rule. So let's not define humanity by that minority. The mass followers are either blind, exhausted or disempowered by it all. We are all one, we need to keep to our view, keep stating the truth, however we perceive it. And if it's a stronger truth then the edges of the old system will crumble. But it could be that 'The Truth' is something neither 'side' foresaw . . . we might not know where we are going, where we are or have been.

    Perhaps some people are trapped in a binary way of seeing. Yin Yang, superficially, is binary, so in a way can feed our perception of opposition. Fully understanding Yin Yang resolves the conflict towards a greater whole. The binary is an illusion which seems very real. It is real in one sense! We live the binary every night and day. That's where you get the laughing Buddha . . . :happydanc

    It would be good to get a foothold into penetrating the resistant ignorance of Western Corporate State to a more free method of exploring consciousness, perhaps including drugs. Many doctors, researchers, freedom thinkers etc are championing psychotics as effective for depression, anxiety, trauma - where other drugs fail. It's a very slow battle, especially considering the very positive results they have for serious conditions. Positive results from the doctors, researchers and patients: resisted by state and corporations (maybe through greed, ignorance or weak tradition). How stupid / corrupt can we be? Individuals get in the way, groups get in the way . . . meanwhile individuals / groups keep trying.

    Was the electric car killed?

    Same thing with alternative power sources. Remember the resistance. No: to electric cars (oh Bush cute smile not much else - didn't he have friends in the oil business, gee . . .), wind turbines, solar panels . . . All were reduced to being a silly, expensive dream. Our current reality disagrees. What about the future? Water batteries and is there something that can go deep into the earth to harness immense tectonic motions? The latter is still a question. But as humans we know the importance of continually asking bizarre, even 'impossible' questions.

    wizardluv from what you show with the videos, at least there is a debate and there seems to be a growing interest, gaia followers and whatever other movements of consciousness there are. Are you a subscriber to Gaia? The video (23, not yet seen the other) is hugely impressive, the officials were intelligent / fascinating, thoughtful art archiving of the best examples, the photographs of the plants beautifully focussed and a good argument is developed. The narrator's voice was a bit flat.

    I was also very keen to hear about the ruin discovered in Turkmenistan, Gonur Tepe, with drug residues on the wall surfaces! Perhaps linked to the mythology of Soma. Cool! I want to go there! Have you been? Why haven't I heard of it? Yes, you're right, effectively, there is a conspiracy. [contort]

  • Maxal - Yes, it's the same book.

    It was recommended by a friend who read the book when it came out in the 70's/80's. He also tried the experiment but I can't remember if it worked for him.

    The same person told me that a few years ago he met someone with whom he felt an instant connection with. They both felt very strongly that they had know each other as young children in a past existence and that fate had drawn them both together so they could make a brief connection in this lifetime. If I remember correctly, I think they believed that one of them may have drowned. Neither felt that their lives were directly connected or intertwined in this lifetime, they viewed it as two old souls getting a chance to meet one last time.

  • Firstly, stop right there although you did say at the end of your post effectively there is conspiracy, as far as psychedelics being illegal, and banned, that is for one reason, mind opening and expansion, they know it and that is the only reason they are outlawed end of. tjhe way society is organised and run is a conspiracy, it hasnt evovled to what we see as society in odern times, it's all by design, compliance and dumbed down sheeple keeps relative peace so they can have power over us, so few ruling so many and not by totalitarian dictatorships isnt an even sided agreement. ther eis just enough designed freedom to make people think they are free, and as folk dont question it as it has been instilled since birth, then why would they question things, why do people still keep voting for shit stick parties when they know full well they dont get a real time fair deal and then moan about it yet they keep voting, its what you do they say, like I say, all by design not a mutual agreement between governemnt and society at large. The edcit of the state is abide and subscribe to our way and laws then all will be well, cough splutter, harumph, i think fecking not lol.

    I am not a subscriber of Gaia, am tempted, thye havent a free trial like netflix but ther eis some fascinating interesting stuff form them that I see on you tube. I am only used to watching a lap top screen, mine is 17 inch screen, havent had a t.v for years, when i do see a bigger t.v screen, it all looks distorted and too bright for my eyes, gives me screwy tired eyes on a big screen. ther eis so much stuff coming out now and being re discovered and it's gathering a non stoppable pace now. the human race needs it if we are to face up to stop subscribing and pandering to the demand sof the state for real positive change to happen, just say no more is a powerful tool.

  • Rosewood - a lot of good writing was done to popularise reincarnation in the Seventies. There was also some good fiction exploring the subject, particularly The Reincarnation of Peter Proud a famous example (largely forgotten now).

    Replay - Ken Grimwood

    For me, the fiction book that took the idea of reincarnation to the limit is Replay. It's about replayers, people who have the ability to replay their lives retaining awareness of their past attempts (so, not strictly reincarnation). You'd think a character repeating their life over and over again would make for a boring book, but it's the opposite. The reader looks forward to seeing how the character will reinterpret each new life. As the character learns and wants to correct past mistakes, the book also becomes a race in time to see if the character can resolve his life. It's one of the funnest books I have read, but also good for examining people's weaknesses and strengths, posing the question what would you do if you could live your life again.

    Breakthrough - Ken Grimwood

    Another fiction account of reincarnation is Breakthrough. It is about a woman who suffered severe epilepsy. The doctors implant a device in her head that whenever she got her signal for a fit (I think for her it was the smell of oranges) she could press the button and it would block the fit. However, she found that by pressing the button it took her into her past life. A life where she was passionately in love with somebody - a life which she found more enjoyable than her present. She gets addicted to pressing the button and gets carried away into her past, making a weird question of the reality of present and past.

    The idea of having such a button (remote controll) that can interface with your brain (mind / consciousness . . .) and giving it to a character who feels lost and out of control is appealing. Both books are by the same author, so a bit of a reincarnation expert.

  • wizardluv - you might be right. But I personally don't believe that conspiracy theory.

    From what we can see, the leadership aren't that clever, they are not organised enough to conspire long-term in that way, they bicker too much. [And are you speaking worldwide?] Through time we have seen major fractions which imply they don't fundamentally get on enough to maintain steady control of the masses in the way you imply over a period of decades.

    Of course you can retort the leaders are cackling with glee when they hear my 'blind' response, confirming we are totally oblivious to their power: we are being played to think it is impossible. It's all an elaborate hoax . . .

    Also, if there were a conspiracy of secret leaders with the power you state, there are a lot of current (radical) groups which would be exterminated or conveniently disappear. There is no denying this. And yes, some people are assassinated /do disappear, revealing there is some power amongst the elite: but not to the extent you imply.

    That's why I wrote the above, the power is in our hands. Resistance is not futile and we should continue to act as we see fit. Whereas we can't counter an invisible leader such as yours. Perhaps the leaders you witness aren't malevolent godlike creatures, it could be an evolution that's got out of hand and isn't serving us well.

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