Is the EU our enemy?

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  • The GOP is in the grips of similar smug rich self serving deluded white men - McConnell Ryan Pence Sessions as the nutjobs we have here in UKIP and the Conservatives.

    Does not bode well for any of us until theyre voted out of their seats.

    The GOP has been becoming more degenerate with each passing year since the creation of the Tea Party, which morphed into the Alt.Right, which morphed into the Trump fanatics.

  • Yes, this is what I hear from my in-laws over on your side of the Atlantic. (I'm a New Yorker but my man is from England). I think the Republican Party over here in the States is becoming a lot like UKIP, as far as the delusions and corruption, and it's disturbing.

    The EU is very dictatorial and wants always to impose its will over the masses, to the average Britt this is never going to set well .

    Not harking back but we fought wars to keep our independence. we are not going to just roll over and take it all up the **** now.

    They can go and whistle for it

  • With a name like schadenfreude you are probably German, and therefore sadly lack this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_humour

    No he's not German, i've already said what he is and got a warning for it ?

    But it's a German phrase meaning something like - a person who feels pleasure from another person's misfortune.

    I think he fits the bill quite nicely!

  • The EU is very dictatorial and wants always to impose its will over the masses, to the average Britt this is never going to set well .

    Not harking back but we fought wars to keep our independence. we are not going to just roll over and take it all up the **** now.

    They can go and whistle for it

    And of course the Uk isnt and hasnt ever been dictatorial ever ever ever...

    You should change you rose coloured spectacles theyre getting a bit worn out.


    It was the victorious leaders of WW2 that wanted a united Europe with closer bonds and economic freedom to prevent a reoccurrence of what happened twice in the first 40+ years of 20th Century.


    It was the British who sought to end other nations independence and subject those nations to dictatorial rule right up to and after WW2 and that didnt sit well with them while Britain made them take it up the arse...but that was ok because' they were all foreign and didnt speak English'.


    At least Britain will be free to trade (grovel) to all the other big dictators though,China USA Saudi Bahrain Kuwait Indonesia Malaysia..not forgetting blue passports.


    News flash : The British Empire isnt coming back.

  • I would understand him if he spoke in a few other languages :P

    But most of us wouldn't, and as it's a UK site, he just has to conform to speaking in English, doesn't he?


    "schadenfreude" is just a handle he has chosen for this site, nothing to do with German surnames. As remarked in a post above, it's probably well in character too, so nicely chosen:D

  • It was the victorious leaders of WW2 that wanted a united Europe with closer bonds and economic freedom to prevent a reoccurrence of what happened twice in the first 40+ years of 20th Century.

    Quite true. (Perhaps apart from the Soviet Union). But they didn't really want the country that had started two World Wars in charge of it, did they?

    Wow, how did that happen?

  • It would have been a difficult one to win. The USSR won the war in Europe by breaking the back of the German army. The Allies only just made it to Berlin as it was.


    Uncle Joe had whole Divisions - hundreds of them! - the Nazis had never heard of. They made one of the biggest mistakes in history in invading Russia.

    Served the krauts right!

  • The same people, collectively. The same ideals, the same ambitions for a Federal Europe under German rule. But operating in the more undercover economic realm now, instead of the military one, in which they failed twice.

    It must be admitted, that since the EU started, they have done very well for themselves.

  • The same people, collectively. The same ideals, the same ambitions for a Federal Europe under German rule. But operating in the more undercover economic realm now, instead of the military one, in which they failed twice.

    It must be admitted, that since the EU started, they have done very well for themselves.

    Somebody described the EU as being like a game of monopoly, all the players start supposedly equal but as one player pulls forward of the others the game is effectively over because that's the way the game works. They build them self a monopoly and take over everything while the other players go under. Its inevitable

  • He could speak Welsh or Gaelic as well :)

    But I just wanted to tongue-in-cheek point out that quantifier "nobody" might be too strong here :)

    True, but how many here speak the Gaelic?

    Or have the Welsh tongue, either, for that matter?

    They would still have to use English to make themselves understood:)

  • The whole EU debate is a very interesting one. Can anyone remember so much division and complaining after any other referendum that the Brexit one? I can't.


    The key problem seems to be the lack of acceptance of the democratic system we have on the UK. The people voted, leaving the EU was the outcome by a small percentage. The majority of the UK voting public wanted to leave. That.is democracy. If I/you/anyone else doesn't like it then then I/you/anyone else should put their efforts into changing (or at least attempting to change) our political system.


    Only yesterday I was reading a comment a friend of a friend had made suggesting that it is "only climate change deniers that voted Brexit". Asides of that comment being blatantly untrue, it also is a gross distortion of fact. Since EU membership in the 1970s overland freight within Europe has increased exponentially, and is at its highest ever (I won't bore you with tonnages, but I do work in the truck industry and have followed this trend with interest).

    My point being that comments such as that made by said friend of friend lead to division and hatred within a country that is already torn. At its worst such attitudes can lead to racism (through blaming ethnic minorities for the situation - I've heard that people from that British Asians and Polish people influenced the vote - why and how could someone believe that shite FFS).


    I am not a fan of the EU (I have my reasons), but even if I had been an ardent remain campaigner (I wasn't) I certainly wouldn't be moaning about the outcome to all and sundry.


    Right, got that toff my chest now :)


    Back to the OP

  • Is the EU our enemy? Not in the traditional sense, but in any group designed to equalise and impose uniformity on its members the better off ones are going to pay, and the less well off are going to receive.

    The EU was fast becoming an out-of-control superstate similar to the Soviet Union, and I don't think many of us subscribe to that system.

    Those nations who over-contributed were becoming increasingly worried at the endless tide of migrants arriving into EU countries, and wondering where this Euro project was headed.

    There were some excellent aspects to being 'in', but I think people felt those were outweighed by the downsides. In any case, I can't think of anything positive we cannot retain from our involvement in the experiment.

    The unimaginable waste perpetrated by the EU bureaucracy would have built so many hospitals and helped so many of the less fortunate, but instead money was just being piled onto the gravy train, poured into suit pockets of the gravy commuters.


    I'm very much an 'outsider'. I don't readily join groups, except perhaps ones aimed at 'outsiders'! I think that fact contributed a great deal to my voting 'out'. I'm just not a naturally gregarious person, and would rather work alone and live alone.
    I don't like over-regulated, interfering, nanny state type systems of government, and to a large degree it was in protest at the meddlesome nature of the EU that I voted 'out'.
    The whole Euro project reminded me of an addict: He's fine without the drug; then he tries the drug; he likes the apparent effect; he gradually sinks more and more of his property and his life into it, and if he doesn't get help he eventually dies.

    It will be some time before we find out if the Euro-experiment destroyed our individuality, but I'm hoping that when Europeans come here they will not feel our country is part of an homogenised mass. What is the point in travel if there is no variation? As our fantastic French neighbours so succinctly put it, 'Vive La Difference!'.

    Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is meant to be serious.

  • I think many people here seem to be deluded. I trust the Eu way more than I trust a frickken Tory Party to look after the average persons welfare. The Eu for its faults is heavily in favour of worker rights and equality for all. The U.K. was instrumental in creating the EU we see today, pushed hard for increasing members from the old eastern block, and under Blair had a chance to block mass migration from those new states which it didn’t take, unlike every other existing EU state.


    I used to be a remainers, now I am pro Brexit, why? Good fucking riddance to the UK and it’s desire of becomeing the 51st state in all but name, under their supreme leader, Trump, the EU is better shot of them and it knows it.


    No deal Brexit is a given now and with a collapse in the pounds value. Time for you guys to stock up on anything imported while you still can afford to.

  • I think many people here seem to be deluded. I trust the Eu way more than I trust a frickken Tory Party to look after the average persons welfare. The Eu for its faults is heavily in favour of worker rights and equality for all. The U.K. was instrumental in creating the EU we see today, pushed hard for increasing members from the old eastern block, and under Blair had a chance to block mass migration from those new states which it didn’t take, unlike every other existing EU state.


    I used to be a remainers, now I am pro Brexit, why? Good fucking riddance to the UK and it’s desire of becomeing the 51st state in all but name, under their supreme leader, Trump, the EU is better shot of them and it knows it.


    No deal Brexit is a given now and with a collapse in the pounds value. Time for you guys to stock up on anything imported while you still can afford to.

    The EU has a reputation for making agreements at the last hour so I don't believe all is lost. I would not wish us to be without a trade deal or the ability of people to move around for work (and settlement).


    As a wild card did you know that VW group and BMW sell more cars in Europe to the UK than anywhere else outside Germany. I would not be at all surprised if their management put great pressure onto the EU negotiators to reach a deal. A no deal Brexit will not only affect the UK.

  • The majority of the UK voting public wanted to leave.

    Majority of the UK voting public (as if: majority of those, who bothered to vote) or majority of UK voters (as if: majority of those, who could vote)?

    As it can be argued that many of those, who were against Brexit did not bothered to vote as they never believed there is even a chance for it happening. I know, serves them right for being lazy, but still, I think saying "most of Britons are for Brexit" might be not exactly true.

    Still, this is just nitpicking, as this is how democracy work - if you won't bother to move your bum and cast the vote, then you have no moral right to complain after

  • Majority of the UK voting public (as if: majority of those, who bothered to vote) or majority of UK voters (as if: majority of those, who could vote)?

    As it can be argued that many of those, who were against Brexit did not bothered to vote as they never believed there is even a chance for it happening. I know, serves them right for being lazy, but still, I think saying "most of Britons are for Brexit" might be not exactly true.

    Still, this is just nitpicking, as this is how democracy work - if you won't bother to move your bum and cast the vote, then you have no moral right to complain after


    It is nitpicking as the electorate were given the choice, and it was a simple yes or no not pick from the least worst loser on the ballot paper.


    You are absolutely right on how democracy works - democratic principle requires input from the public. Those who choose not to participate either forfeit their right to complain, or in many cases express their view that "none of the above" were of suitable calibre to garner their vote (parliament does need to address low turnout and establish why people do not vote - I favour a "none of the above" tickbox and that votes should be counted as such, not as spoiled ballot papers)