Give us all your money or the forum gets it (2018 version)


    Following is the latest breakdown of bottom-line running costs of this website (2018), information on why it costs a lot to run, and how you can help...

    Hosting: £648 p/a inc VAT

    Domains x 4: £50 p/a

    The newest forum software currently cost around £150 including VAT - there are still a few additions I'd like to add, but they will be dependent on how much money we raise. This was actually lower than the older software cost. We've had to pay for several upgrades over the years, some which cost us over £200.

    Miscellaneous paid for items are needed occasionally - in the past we have paid for chatroom software, blog software and more - these, and a newer bespoke mobile app, are largely on hold until the site becomes more self-sufficient.

    Why this cost?

    When this forum started we used a standard "shared" hosting package costing us around £50 a year - these are fine for unpopular, non-interactive sites and anything with low traffic. As the forum grew it started crashing, and so we looked into new options - we tried another shared host, but we had the same problems, and so we switched to a couple of Virtual Private Servers (vps) costing us around £30+ a month. Again, similar problems, although not as bad as before.

    Even during this quieter time we get up to 3 million hits per month; this forum is valued by members and a resource to non-members all around the world, and it would be a shame to lock that down. That's not including the bandwidth used by subscription emails or notifications etc.

    About four or so years ago we upgraded to a fast server with lots of processing power and RAM, costing us around £45 a month+VAT, with telephone support, regular backups and based in the UK for better response time - it rarely crashes and it's typically stable and the best it's ever been. The guys are know their shit and I trust them more than I've trusted any other hosting company.

    So while we occasionally hear people say "I can get you a better deal", or "that sounds expensive", jumping ship now we have a reliable company isn't going to happen any time soon - there's too much of a risk of going backwards.

    Since 2005 we have invested thousands of pounds into this site, largely paid for by donations (not including the original investment in setting the site up), but regardless of this the site still owes me (Paul) a couple of hundred quid. This is because, over the last ten years, when donations were low, I made up the difference out of my own pocket and never recuperated it.

    I'm back to investing my own cash again, and this needs to stop - I already put a shitload of effort into the software, which is one reason why I'm reluctant to let it die, but I seriously need this site to be self sufficient financially for the sake of my own bank balance.

    Donations pay for the site.

    Donations help - and in order to keep this site afloat we need a minimum of £60 a month.

    This covers the costs of the hosting and domain registration and the percentage Paypal takes for processing the funds, but no more. Anything above that will eventually clear the debts, but not if we have a bad month, then it's back to playing catch up again.

    The current minimum one-off donation is now £7, but you can set up a regular payment from £5 per month which can be cancelled at any time via your paypal account.

    Money that comes in is prioritised - rent on the server and domain names comes first, software updates third and feature upgrades last. It would be nice to raise more than is needed, but let's see.

    We have thousands of members on this site, and if everyone donated we would never need to ask for money again.

    In summary...

    • Making a donation does not exempt anyone from the rules of the site.
    • Making a donation helps a lot and stops worrying about ongoing costs.
    • Money goes to renewing domain names, upgrading software, hosting, adding features as they're needed, software licenses and anything else to do with the site running costs.
    • Hosting on a high speed server costs us over £640 per year and that's without software updates, domain registration etc.
    • Software upgrades and new features add more to this. For example, the gallery cost us £50 everytime we do an upgrade, if we ever want to bring back features (such as the chatroom) they too will cost us similar or higher prices - last time around, upgrading the software that runs the forum cost us in the region of £150. Previous upgrades have cost us more.
    • We have spent several thousand pounds since the site began in September 2005 and we still only just scrape through.
    • In the future, we may incur extra costs, like developing new mobile apps etc. For instance, apart from the dev costs, the fee would be $100usd a year just to run an app on the Apple app store and $25usd for Android
    • We do not profit from donations to this website, but unfortunately paypal does take a small percentage because we use a premium verified account - there's nothing we can do about this; all merchant banking systems take a percentage of the money transferred
    • Please consider that, if we were employing someone to run this site for 8 hours a day on minimum wage they would have earned over £140000 by now (Based on 2016 minimum wage rates).
    • When this website started (in the days before social media), we invested a lot of money believing the site would flourish. Because donations have been slow in forthcoming, this left us in arrears. Failure to hit the donation target increases these arrears
    • We struggle to hit our monthly running costs and we are always playing catch up.


    Around this website you will see affiliate links to Ebay, and I may add others at some point - using these links will set a cookie on your computer and thus a small percentage of your purchases through these stores will be passed our way. This doesn't bring in a lot, but again it helps, so please use these links when you can.

    Paid membership ideas

    This is an egalitarian website, and as such so we don't wish to restrict people because of a low income. Again, we may have to go down this route at some point, but it's against our wider principles to do so.


    I have resisted independent advertising because it's a pain in the arse to manage and would take the website out of the hobbyist domain and into the business domain - it's not completely dismissed it, in fact it's becoming more likely, but I'm holding off for as long as I can. There is some affiliate linking as this is easy to manage, but it isn't exactly a money spinner.

    Alternatives to Paypal?

    No; it's too much hassle trying to run merchant accounts and set up payment processors - this website is run as a hobby and as such we keep it simple as possible. Implementing any other system would be too time/effort consuming at present and cause us problems with processing fees, tax etc.

    You do not need a Paypal account to use paypal for donations.

    Donation and Newcomer bonuses

    If you are a newbie seeing this post, a donation to the running costs of this site will give you access to all the forums that are currently restricted by post count. Click here for more information.

    Regular members who donate will get a feature upgrade including a larger inbox, the ability to change your username, more photo storage and more.

    Thank you :)

    Any questions or ideas, please discuss below - no negativity please.

  • thanks for the update Paul, your hard work is appreciated.

    I noticed the Amazon ad has gone. Personally I was slightly surprised about this choice of advertiser, given their working conditions record. Still, needs must.

    Will the Amazon ad be back?

  • I noticed the Amazon ad has gone. Personally I was slightly surprised about this choice of advertiser, given their working conditions record. Still, needs must.

    Will the Amazon ad be back?

    It's still there, but it's changed into a search box and may be filtered out on some browsers.

    Ebay, Google, Amazon, Paypal - none of them are ethical, but I'm not sure if any large company is, and it's difficult to find viable alternatives with systems that work. I remember some time ago I contacted "ethical wares" to ask if they wanted to advertise on here, and they criticised me for using Ebay affiliation -- but when I checked their website they accepted payments from Paypal. Go figure.

    As the saying goes, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism.

    I'd rather rely on donations, but I'm sick of living by the seat of my pants every month. :/

  • Thorough explanation,Just one question, apart from advertising from the usual suspects can you not allow individuals on here to advertise their own wee business operations ie their own banner ads on their signature area? for which they can pay for the privilege.

  • I have donated once before and am considering doing so again but I'd much rather pay for an advert, as I do have a business that I could advertise here.

    I bet lots of members have businesses and would be willing to consider advertising, you might just scrape enough to cover the costs and the good thing is the adverts are far more likely to suit the membership.

  • Thank you for that very clear and concise update paul , I often tend to lose interest in long winded posts,even when they are of importance,however this I followed with ease.

    Also Thank you for all your time and effort that you put into keeping this site up and running. Not only are you keeping a lot of members and newbies happy , but are helping get good information out into a world that needs as much help as we can create. Well done you :thumbup:

    I shall certainly keep taking little steps when I can to help out.

    Thanks again.

    you are a star. xx