Does Your Animal Companion Love You or Pavlov?

  • Recently I had a conversation that made me wonder...does my hound actually "love" me.All that I know of love he does display as best he can. Specific very strong emotional attachment and reciprocal physical contact and communication.If he is upset he seeks to be held,if I am upset he comes and cuddles me.These things are beyond Pavlovs reward response as he does things for no reward also.So what do you think?Do we need to define love first to ascertain our beasties feelings toward us ,or do we just know?

  • I don’t think they Love us the way we define love. No more than we could say the same about our horse loving us. Some of these responses you mention. That same animal may display similar to a stranger in certain circumstances. However, our domesticated dog does respond and crave much of the contact we associate with love. If the same dog remained feral, within a pack. It’s needs would still be met from others in that pack. eg: contact, companionship, disapline/place.

  • My dog is a pack animal, she is happy in a pack, just that her pack composes of Huumans and felines.


    Cat likes my heating, duvet and food packet opening abilities. She has no idea I have to earn money to buy them, so doesn’t care.


    I have no illusions they are attached to me in any other way than that. I doubt they even like me in the human sense, but I can say they trust me to provide for them, which is the beginning middle and end of my roles in their lives.

  • Tbh i think the idea that animals dont know or show love is bollox.

    Theyre all capable of love.Horses and elephants that have been separated for years and been reunited years later have shown how elated they are to be reunited.

    Dogs and cats do the same.Dogs and cats will search miles, for years to find their owners.

    I know my dogs have all loved me as much and i loved them and not just a Pavlovs dependency thing either.Thry know your mood and come and try to cheer you up if youre miserable.They know when youre being silly with them and play along with it.They know how to tease you back and play up...so why are they incapable of love?

    My cats follow me everywhere and its nothing to do with food they enjoy my company.

    I think its pretty ironic that humans cant grasp the idea animals can love when many humans are completely incapable of the emotion or recognising it or showing it toward their own species let alone another species.

  • Maybe your just confuesing your own perception of love or projecting that love through the animal. Do you feel “the love from every dog” or horse or other animal that crosses your path? If you spent more time with them you would probably say yes.

    You are of the opinion that some humans can’t grasp love? Hitler had a love for Eva, but did terrible things to others he “didn’t” express love for. I don’t love some of my former girlfriends, though at the time, when it meant more to me than another person. I had different feelings for them. My love of music is different to my love for my child. I can feel loss for my best friend on his death, much like the elephant, it hurts if I allow it. Yet I don’t deny I loved him as a close friend. Others who have died I feel the loss, emotionally effected, but I didn’t love them even as friends.

  • Of course i dont feel love from every dog or horse that crosses my path.Nor do i think im projecting love or my perception of it.

    What makes you think youre the only one who understands what love is and everyone else is a cunt for thinking differently.

    I just think its completely arrogant of humans to decide animals are incapable of showing love either towards humans or toward each other.

    I said some humans are incapable of displaying or recognising love and clearly some are.

    Plenty of people are capable of loving people while hating and or murdering complete strangers though what the fuck that has to do with any of it i dont know.

    We all have different feelings for people or maybe sense of loss or upset for people we were not even part of their life but thats not love its empathy.

    I think I know the difference between empathy dependency and love and the difference between the love of people or concepts or material things but thanks for pointing out the differences or id never have known.

  • Wow why so angry? You suggested a elephant “loves” that’s why I made reference to loss.


    I don’t think you do either love every dog or horse either. Some folk do think that way. Love is a human phrase we attach to many things. My point is I believe. Dogs “Don’t” love in the real sense of “our human meaning” I don’t think I’m the only one who understands love either. Or that your a cunt for feeling love towards your pet canine that you care for and love the rewards of doing so. Maybe a bit like a wasp in winter today tho? :)

    It’s no different a reply I would get if I asked a religious person if they believed in one god, or in the story of Jesus to be true to the letter. To that individual, They “except” it as they “feel it” so they could say they love god or love jesus. It would be pointless asking that human if they thought god loves them back. Much like it’s pointless thinking some of the guard dogs Ive known would love me or their owner. They respond in communication and learn to interact. Their rewards are similar to my pet dog the more the interaction takes place. But it’s still a guard dog and on the odd occasion. I or the owner will get bitten. Could call that a love bite?


    It a amazes me how many people own dogs or horses, and yet assume they think and act as if they were human. They are animals and yes sentient but we shouldn’t assume they will go to church on a Sunday if they get loose or share the same canine gods. However like you say I don’t know. But I can make a assumption, that’s all. Here have something sweet, it’s nearly Xmas. <3

  • I know that my dogs have feelings of love towards each other and towards me which is all that matters. It's not food driven, that's when they wheedle but they sense my mood or just out of the blue want contact. The old girl usually after her breakfast will come in, burp in my face then bulldoze her head into my chest wanting a cuddle and won't go away until she's had one. Jnr who is a low content wolfdog is extremely fussy to the point of being a nuisance.

    Everything living has some form of sensory perception, they live, they breathe, they exist and are part of the circle. Failure to recognise that especially by those in power will cost us dearly eventually. You can feel the love if your mind lets you.

  • I dont know if the dog loves me, i suppose it depends on your definition of love. I know he sees me and the misuse as more than someone who feeds and walks him.


    Whichever way, if he does or doesn't he's still a part of the family...

    You can only accomplish your object in life by complete disregard of the opinions of other people.

  • members with more than five posts will not see this advert

  • Maybe your just confuesing your own perception of love or projecting that love through the animal. Do you feel “the love from every dog” or horse or other animal that crosses your path? If you spent more time with them you would probably say yes.

    No not every animal i come across.Nor am I projecting an idea of love through an animal.I see no physical or spiritual boundary in love.I believe any spirit can experience the giving and receiving of love if they are sufficiently evolved mentally and of sufficient ,intelligence maybe because i see spirits of equal "value"whatever physical body they happen to inhabit.To suggest that a person confuses perceptions of love and projects them through an animal is judgemental, in that an assumption is being made before considering all circumstances, that animals are incapable of such emotion.I certainly have met many humans that are incapable.Its about reaching out and communicating with other souls on a very deep level.Maybe you have not yet met other beings who are not human that are able to communicate in this way ?However, if you bar in your mind the possibility ,it wont happen anyway.

  • Why are you taking the pss out of NRT?Why do you presume you are correct?Why are you wandering randomly?If dogs tend to bite you and wasps get you,maybe you should take that as a sign from the universe?:)Some humans can reach into and share on a very deep level with other beings and vice versa,some cannot.We are all different with different ability,to presume the arrogance and lofty position of judge and jury is arrogant is it not?

  • I get pissed because youre doing what you always do, paint rediculous metaphorical analagies around peoples points of view to undermine them because you dont happen to agree.

    Youre doing the same now obfuscating the issue dragging love of God and religion into it and being condescending 'there there littleboy in a bad mood have a sweetie '. well you know what you can go do.


    I dont believe all animals visibly demonstrate love towards a human or each other and yes dogs are pack animals and apply the same behaviour patterns interacting with humans as between themselves and often thats all you get from them,that doesnt mean theyre incapable of love or incapable of deminstrating love toward each other,another species companion or a human.

    Humans are just as capable of demonstrating pack behaviour and very little emotional attachment to anyone.


    Ive had horses who couldnt give a shit whether youre there or not and one that loved being nuzzled and fussed and got vocal when you left and she loved the company of my dog.Theyd sit together in the field for ages.If one got up the other followed.I dont know as that was love but its certainly a strong bond of feeling happy compsnionship in eaches company.

    Not all dogs are bothered or close to humans but I think that depends on the depth of interaction between dog and human and how well they know and trust each other.It also depends on the degree of imprinting and at what age.

    The general assumption though is because we're humans and most intelligent species (apparently) that no other species is capable of the same emotions as us because that would undermine our ego and sense we're far superior to them.

    Crediting them with emotional responses to animals also raises the question how can i kill an animal capable of love affection or real emotions so people ignore the possibility so that they can continue to kill and eat them with impunity.


    I dont believe in god but i dont dismiss the possibility one exists because so much seemingly impossible nevertheless still does exist.

    I dont dismiss the fact animals are capable of love simply because its not in the same visible or sensory parameters defined as human love im programmed to understand by my own species.

    People can dismiss it as behavioural or genetic or whatever the fuck they want but doesnt mean it doesnt exist as a real emotion and as strong a bond in animals as in humans or between species.

  • I wasn’t taking the piss out of NRT. Nor do I think everyone else is a cunt. There was no need to imply I thought his or anyone else’s view made them a cunt. Why am I posting on a forum, why am I engaging with some threads. Why? :/ Because you asked a question. Probably make more sense to define love. Where’s coyote when I need him. :)

  • No love lost there then. It wasn’t my intention to undermine you. You jumped in to say “the idea that animals dont know or show love is bollox.” Pretty much cut and shut case. When examined, you go on about my understanding of Love (human love) and the Cunt bit. I jokingly told you that came across like meeting a wasp in winter. If you can’t go with the flow, what do I know. ;)Peace out NT

  • I wasn’t taking the piss out of NRT. Nor do I think everyone else is a cunt. There was no need to imply I thought his or anyone else’s view made them a cunt. Why am I posting on a forum, why am I engaging with some threads. Why? :/ Because you asked a question. Probably make more sense to define love. Where’s coyote when I need him. :)

    Yes you were:whip:."Why"? is the ultimate question, the answer is probably 42.You may find Peyote to be more helpful than coyote in this instance.:whistle:Why do any of us engage in threads,because it snags our mind,we want to know,to interact,find out and maybe even share a bit of love with others.Maybe even because we are feeling the need to jab someone?:handbags:I have had horses,cats and hounds aplenty.All sorts and most were affectionate,needy,pack orientated,now I have a hound that is a very different being indeed.I do not know why but he is a deeply spiritual creature and relates to others totally differently to others I have shared life with.

  • I tend to think everyone in this discussion is right, both AW and Nomadic RT, what differs is the subjective perception of the definition of an undefinable word.


    Define the weaning of “love” it is an illogical emotion based on the improvement In how another being or object makes us feel.

  • I tend to think everyone in this discussion is right, both AW and Nomadic RT, what differs is the subjective perception of the definition of an undefinable word.


    Define the weaning of “love” it is an illogical emotion based on the improvement In how another being or object makes us feel.

    I have never felt love for an object,how can anyone.?Do you mean admiration,want, need to possess?Love is a neccessary bonding survival emotion ,but also spiritually elevates the soul to a higher awareness and plane of existence.It does not have to be based on anything either.Lots of things and people make me feel better by their company but it is not love.I see it as a deep multifaceted interaction between souls.Who judged it illogical?Cortana?Doesnt always make you feel better either,I have suffered much pain in the name of love,as have we all .

  • I remember reading something awhile ago that talked about the thinking that dogs are like young wolf cubs. Maybe dogs love us in the same way a dependent young child loves and looks to a parent figure to love them, look after them and teach them things.

  • members with more than five posts will not see this advert

  • I remember reading something awhile ago that talked about the thinking that dogs are like young wolf cubs. Maybe dogs love us in the same way a dependent young child loves and looks to a parent figure to love them, look after them and teach them things.

    I remember reading something awhile ago that talked about the thinking that dogs are like young wolf cubs. Maybe dogs love us in the same way a dependent young child loves and looks to a parent figure to love them, look after them and teach them things.

    yes.hound has often displayed confusion and juvenille,like a child,reactions around uncertainty and looked to me to calm things and make him feel secure.Anthropomorphism is not how it is,that would be me forcing a perceived false identity upon another.A being raised by a wolf is behaviour wise different to the same being raised by a human.Communication underpins survival.The old hound woven into your soul is different,not because i want it that way,its just how it is.Those who have shared life with a thinking hound for many years know what I mean.Probably the same with some horses,cats and other beings.I havent forgotten parrot and crows beastie actually offering her a sherry to get her out of the bathroom..if I remember rightly.Far out.My hound hasnt got to that stage yet.^^

  • I have never felt love for an object,how can anyone.?Do you mean admiration,want, need to possess?Love is a neccessary bonding survival emotion ,but also spiritually elevates the soul to a higher awareness and plane of existence.It does not have to be based on anything either.Lots of things and people make me feel better by their company but it is not love.I see it as a deep multifaceted interaction between souls.Who judged it illogical?Cortana?Doesnt always make you feel better either,I have suffered much pain in the name of love,as have we all .

    some people claim to love their cars, or phones, or whatever. I am just trying to be open minded rather than say what they feel isn’t what they claim to feel. I have very little emotional attachment to people or things.

  • some people claim to love their cars, or phones, or whatever. I am just trying to be open minded rather than say what they feel isn’t what they claim to feel. I have very little emotional attachment to people or things.

    We are all different.life is far easier with less emotional attachment.I have never understood that people can actually love inanimate objects that cannot interact in any way...though I have been known to assail and abuse my various vehicles that have ceased to function at bad times. They never answered back though.:D

  • I love my tractor. :) Massey Ferguson 65 :Pit was my second tractor following my Grey fergie.

    If you see the news after a disaster, snow storm, war, those with tractors are the ones getting out of the shit, heading to the hills, back to the Land. The tractor is a survival tool reliable, dependable, predictable, it can also be switched off!

    I told a work mate that I wanted to own a red Ferguson tractor before I die and I really meant it. I had owned land and heavy-ish horse, but the horse wasn’t ideal for ploughing the Land, grubbing up trees etc.

    My mate brought me a grey fergie to buy in 1993 that he had painted red just for me. I liked that tractor and worked it for a few years. It wasn’t physically big enough, but more importantly, it wasn’t a genuine Red fergie. So I part traded a few years later for the MF65.

    The 65 I worked and restored. Totally stripped down rebuild restoration. (Ironically I painted it Army green as it could often be left overnight on site in the woods)


    If I talk to folk about my tractor, I always say I Love it and use that expression freely regarding that Tractor. If it splutters or struggles to start I may even talk nicely to it, until it kicks into life. I’ve never had to beat it with a breeze block. If it breaks down or fails to start, its My fault for not maintaining it. Hippies use the word love Loosely. If I see a tractor on the road I slow down and trundle along with it. I notice tractors like a brooding partner notices newborns. It isn’t the same “love” that I feel for my mother, brother, lover or child, but it is close-ish and I don’t love all tractors. I would love to own all the tractors. :S

  • Post by cricket ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves: video upload failed to open ().
  • Post by cricket ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves: given up on uploading now .doesnt work at moment. ().
  • Aw no...

    Quote

    I don't think Daisy does this because she in her way loves or does not me.

    OK, 'love' or whatever aside, I list our last dog Bill as one of the 3 that I credit with saving me when I was put on levetiracetam.

    My husband,Daisy and Libby, and the forum helped me get through this the crap that has gone on since October. I will let everyone know when the medical profession start to do something helpful.


    Given that these days a lot of humans don't seem to have any adequate definition for 'love', attachment issues that result in problems forming social relationships - it is a wonder that we can relate to others of out own species let alone another species; or perhaps this is why companion animals are so popular - we appear to be increasingly more dysfunctional but don't ask me, ask a psychologist/psychiatrist, they are the ones making the bucks.


    Dogs are the ones that are good at bonding with other species.


    Has anyone read 'In defence of dogs' by John Bradshaw or 'The Dogs Mind' by Bruce Fogle?


    It isn't up to me to impose my definition of love on Daisy or Libby or any animal that have lived with us.

    I love them and every other other animal that we have ever owned with my definition of the word.

    I am so much happier for the fact that they share/shared their lives with us.


    Basically, yes I was upset to lose my bracelet. I was more upset that the tinnitus app disturbed Daisy.

    I've learned to sleep without it except on really bad nights.


    On that note - just who does the reference to Pavlov allude to?

  • Recently I had a conversation that made me wonder...does my hound actually "love" me.All that I know of love he does display as best he can. Specific very strong emotional attachment and reciprocal physical contact and communication.If he is upset he seeks to be held,if I am upset he comes and cuddles me.These things are beyond Pavlovs reward response as he does things for no reward also.So what do you think?Do we need to define love first to ascertain our beasties feelings toward us ,or do we just know?

    Pavlov was a nasty bastard. That's all the words i'll waste on him.


    Anyone with sense and compassion, and who has/had a 4 legged companion, knows that they are capable of the same feelings as a 2 legged animal; they just show it in a more natural way.

    All animals are different, with different personalities; but most are better than those who walk on 2 legs!

  • I tend to think everyone in this discussion is right, both AW and Nomadic RT, what differs is the subjective perception of the definition of an undefinable word.


    Define the weaning of “love” it is an illogical emotion based on the improvement In how another being or object makes us feel.

    What on earth are you talking about?

    I think you've been reading too many self-help manuals!

    What object should make a human feel love? Love is for flesh and blood, not for objects!

    To be honest, i don't understand your second paragraph.

  • members with more than five posts will not see this advert