Animal agriculture UK 2016

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  • This just popped into my inbox and so I had to share.



    Hope we can all see the smiley side.

    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us".
    - Calvin+Hobbes

  • So you see "first hand" everything that goes on in the video in the opening post, and yet do nothing to stop it?



    :whistle:


    where did you find that one? the foot and mouth outbreak in 2001?
    you try moving a dead cow by hand.

  • What about fertilizer used to grow vegan food? There is chemical fertilizer derived from crude oil or there is organic fertilizer derived from animals.

    There is plant based fertiliser, and oil is not considered to be animal exploitation (they died millions of years ago dude) but again this is an example of a "what about" argument that uses unavoidable/incidental harm to excuse deliberate harm.

    Brake fluid, you never stop learning. :beard:


    Well after all the fuss about animal fat in £5 notes, straight question why no complaints about the brake fluid.

    People can choose not to drive, but I agree, too many people made too much fuss about the fiver when not considering the way animal expolitationextends into so many everyday things.


    Without quoting everything, a lot of the posted articles are outdated and incorrect - there are plenty of vegan toothpastes and toiletries, and all sugar in the EU is vegan and not filtered through bone char. Stearic acid in tyres and animal glues in woodwork are used less and less.


    The Vegan Society, when they defined the meaning of "veganism" (they invented the word), realised this and used the expression "as far as is practicable and possible", with practicable meaning doable rather than practical. This is because they realised we live in a world that is built on the back of animal exploitation and to survive in it would be impossible.


    Thing is, do we go after the small stuff, nitpicking everything and alienating ourselves from society because of things outside our control, or do we target the big stuff - the animal abuse that goes on in the food, clothing, vivisection etc?


    Certainly, we should all use less of anything and do the best we can - but again, unavoidable/unknown harm is hardly a justification for doing nothing.

  • I once had to take the loading shovel and straps with 4 big blokes to collect a lame cow that had slipped and fell , she could not get up again unassisted hence the need for heavy equipment.................


    indeed, a cow is a big heavy animal, many a farmers has had his ribs crushed by one.
    posting an obscure photo out of context without any explanation does nothing to add to the conversation.

  • indeed, a cow is a big heavy animal, many a farmers has had his ribs crushed by one.
    posting an obscure photo out of context without any explanation does nothing to add to the conversation.

    Using trite soundbites; suggesting that people from cities don't understand the "ways of the country" also does nothing for any conversation.


    My question is, did you actually watch the video in the opening post, and do you think that it's acceptable to treat animals in this way?

  • Using trite soundbites; suggesting that people from cities don't understand the "ways of the country" also does nothing for any conversation.


    My question is, did you actually watch the video in the opening post, and do you think that it's acceptable to treat animals in this way?


    NO I don't, but that is intensive farming, more to do with profits than animal welfare, I live in hill farming country where everything is free range and farmers use the old traditional methods, "Agri-business" abhors me but this isn't agriculture as I know it, its just big business.
    we are probably 50 years behind everyone else up here.

  • NO I don't, but that is intensive farming, more to do with profits than animal welfare, I live in hill farming country where everything is free range and farmers use the old traditional methods, "Agri-business" abhors me but this isn't agriculture as I know it, its just big business.
    we are probably 50 years behind everyone else up here.


    From where I stand, there is an ENORMOUS difference between the Food Industry and traditional farming.


    This looks bad, Hagrid and I are on the same page again. :whistle:

    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us".
    - Calvin+Hobbes

  • NO I don't, but that is intensive farming, more to do with profits than animal welfare, I live in hill farming country where everything is free range and farmers use the old traditional methods, "Agri-business" abhors me but this isn't agriculture as I know it, its just big business.
    we are probably 50 years behind everyone else up here.

    So everything in your life, your food, your shoes, your clothes and your toiletries all come directly from farms where there's no artificial insemination, no milking machines, no chicken debeaking, no killing of baby males (etc.), where the chickens are roaming in open pastures with the cows and sheep, the offspring stay with their mothers indefinitely and the slaughterhouse workers all treat the animals with the utmost love?


    Really?

  • So everything in your life, your food, your shoes, your clothes and your toiletries all come directly from a farm where there's no artificial insemination, no milking machines, no chicken debeaking, no killing of baby males (etc.), where the chickens are roaming in open pastures with the cows and sheep, and the offspring stay with their mothers indefinitely?


    Really?


    there are some cows here but its mainly sheep at the moment, chickens are mostly running free in the farmyards, yes there are milking machines where do you think your cheap milk in your London supermarket comes from? although I suspect most of the milk around here goes to the cheese factory 9 miles away.

  • there are some cows here but its mainly sheep at the moment, chickens are mostly running free in the farmyards, yes there are milking machines where do you think your cheap milk in your London supermarket comes from? although I suspect most of the milk around here goes to the cheese factory 9 miles away.

    Well yes, I know where milk comes from, which is why I don't consume it.


    Cows are artificially inseminated (sexually violated) in order that their milk is taken (stolen) from them to provide cheap milk for humans - as you well know, male calves are deemed unnecessary and typically shot within a couple of days - once the cow has been through this cycle a few times it's used for meat.


    Concerning chickens; it didn't take too long to find this article about cruelty found on a free range Devon chicken farm, and it's from a pro-meat website ...


    http://meatinfo.co.uk/news/arc…fire_from_Animal_Aid.html


    As I said earlier on, almost every time an activist gets to film inside a farm or slaughterhouse, they discover evidence of cruelty that goes beyond the typical expectations of the meat trade.

  • do you ever get out of the "big smoke" Paul? if you ever get down this way i'll take you to a county agricultural show, and show you farmers who are proud of producing good quality products for the table.
    if we didn't have farmers you'd be eating nothing but foreign imported food, it might be cheap but the welfare standards are nothing like in this country and in some places are non existent, is that what you want?

  • do you ever get out of the "big smoke" Paul? if you ever get down this way i'll take you to a county agricultural show, and show you farmers who are proud of producing good quality products for the table.
    if we didn't have farmers you'd be eating nothing but foreign imported food, it might be cheap but the welfare standards are nothing like in this country and in some places are non existent, is that what you want?

    Yes I do get out of London thank you.


    Animals are not, or at least should not be products - they're sentient individuals that deserve their own lives and agency over their reproductive organs. To suggest that it's OK to breed an animal, only to deny it the right to freedom and life in order to make a profit, is being an apologist for cruelty.


    You seem to be offering some very mixed up ideas about food -- we do actually farm crops in Britain; it's not all animal agriculture.

  • I do agree that there are too many abattoirs where things drop below the standards that even the meat industry expects - in fact, I think the standards in ALL abattoirs need reassessing because, at the moment, the number of animals killed per hour affects the bottom line of the food industry and the folk who have to bear the pressure are those on the slaughter lines. Piece work means the more they slaughter the more they earn and so it is all too easy to up the chain speed and so the increasing pressure on the slaughter line workers makes for sloppy work and even more suffering.

    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us".
    - Calvin+Hobbes

  • I think that another thing to consider here is that the general public almost invariably know the price of everything and the value of nothing and so expect their food to be at giveaway prices.


    Leaving aside animal ethics for the moment, I'd like to know how we live in a society that says it will not pay even enough to cover the costs of producing a litre of milk, let alone a profit for the producer and yet these same people will willingly pay more for a bottle of flavoured water. :curse:


    BTW, I include beer in the flavoured water department. :reddevil:

    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us".
    - Calvin+Hobbes

  • do you ever get out of the "big smoke" Paul? if you ever get down this way i'll take you to a county agricultural show, and show you farmers who are proud of producing good quality products for the table.
    if we didn't have farmers you'd be eating nothing but foreign imported food, it might be cheap but the welfare standards are nothing like in this country and in some places are non existent, is that what you want?


    I think the point is that it doesnt matter if the cow is attended to by half a dozen people who pamper it to within an inch of its life, and give it feed with mixed in gold leaf. As nice a life as it has you are still going to kill it.


    And as i stated in a previous reply, i eat meat and i live in the country before you denigrate this reply.


    Ultimately, as i think paul has already said, just be honest with yourself. If you eat meat then accept that something has died for you to be able to.

  • if this country became totally vegetarian, NO farm animal would exist, you would be dooming them ALL to an early grave, farming is an industry to make money, it is not a park for you to go goo-goo over a lamb in a field, no animal farming means no animals in the fields..forever. personally I think that would be a boring concept.

  • If you eat meat then accept that something has died for you to be able to.


    I think that is a very strange thing to say, of course an animal has died for us to eat meat, although you could be right, people who eat in McDonalds and KFC seem to be ignorant of this fact, if what has been said to me is true: "meat comes from McDonalds!!"

  • if this country became totally vegetarian, NO farm animal would exist, you would be dooming them ALL to an early grave, farming is an industry to make money, it is not a park for you to go goo-goo over a lamb in a field, no animal farming means no animals in the fields..forever. personally I think that would be a boring concept.

    It would probably take a couple of generations of animals and some major adjustment - but it's not an impossible challenge and one I would welcome.


    Farm animals only exist in abundance because of artificial insemination -- and none of these animals have any of their own reproductive rights. If we remove the idea of animals as products and stopped breeding them, well it wouldn't take long before we got a whole lot more inventive with our crops and our meals.


    As a point of comparison, the US economy didn't collapse when they got rid of human slavery - but many argued that it would.

  • Ultimately, as i think paul has already said, just be honest with yourself. If you eat meat then accept that something has died for you to be able to.


    That's a great theory but reality shows that the whole meat process has been denatured. How often does an animal carcase appear in the butcher (when you can find one) or the supermarket? When was the last time either of those outlets had poultry with feathers on and guts in? Almost never and the meat that is on sale where most people shop has no link back to any animal (poultry excepted) and has been denatured even further by packing it on a plastic tray and wrapping it in film - it is so denatured, it could have been grown in a Petri dish.

    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us".
    - Calvin+Hobbes

  • Its not a strange thing to say. As a meat eater be honest and say that you accept the early death of animals to supply you meat.


    I always have.


    - - - Updated - - -


    It would probably take a couple of generations of animals and some major adjustment - but it's not an impossible challenge and one I would welcome.


    Farm animals only exist in abundance because of artificial insemination -- and none of these animals have any of their own reproductive rights. If we remove the idea of animals as products and stopped breeding them, well it wouldn't take long before we got a whole lot more inventive with our crops and our meals.


    As a point of comparison, the US economy didn't collapse when they got rid of human slavery - but many argued that it would.


    the countryside would be deadly quiet without any animals.

  • Its all a meat eater can say. Hold up our hands and say that we're more concerned with our own wants than those of an animal. That's what it comes down to. Whether we eat animals that have frolicked in sunshine, or lived an unhappy existence in a factory farm setting.

  • That's a great theory but reality shows that the whole meat process has been denatured. How often does an animal carcase appear in the butcher (when you can find one) or the supermarket? When was the last time either of those outlets had poultry with feathers on and guts in? Almost never and the meat that is on sale where most people shop has no link back to any animal (poultry excepted) and has been denatured even further by packing it on a plastic tray and wrapping it in film - it is so denatured, it could have been grown in a Petri dish.


    a lot of people who buy meat in supermarkets have no idea where that meat comes from and even sometimes which animal, its not easy to tell what the meat is sometimes on a little white tray wrapped in cling film.
    there are very few real butchers shops left anymore, we lost ours about 5 years ago.

  • Its all a meat eater can say. Hold up our hands and say that we're more concerned with our own wants than those of an animal. That's what it comes down to. Whether we eat animals that have frolicked in sunshine, or lived an unhappy existence in a factory farm setting.


    no it dosent, but until hunting our own food becomes more widespread we all have to buy our meat in supermarkets, shops or pannier markets.

  • even a vegetarian has to buy their chosen food in a shop, do you care that someone is probably being paid minimum wage, or less, and is under the control of a gang master to produce your food.

  • It depends where youre at in your views. For someone who objects morally to killing an animal in order to eat, I would think that whilst preferable, the fact that an animal has had a happy life does little to negate the idea that taking anothers life so you can eat it is wrong.

  • I think its a case of "never the twain shall meet"!! I shall carry on eating meat, I am a carnivore and I love eating meat. vegetables just aren't the same.