Islam

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  • I consider fundamental Islam to be the antithesis of liberalism and feminism and therefore mutually exclusive to both. I cannot understand why feminists are not outspoken about Islam. Sweden used to have the lowest rate of sexual assault, now it is the rape capital of Europe.
    Muslims want to live in western countries because western countries are more prosperous, but why are they more prosperous? I suggest that in fundamental Muslim countries there is human repression whereby there is not a freedom of expression of ideas and people are not encouraged to think for themselves.The former Soviet communist bloc collapsed largely because of human repression. Given these "refugees" are breeding at a greater rate than the rest of the population in the western countries and wanting to bring the human repression from the countries they have come from, I cannot see how such a situation can be sustainable.
    Some of these "refugees"in Europe are just animals the way they treat female strangers.If they get their way and get Sharia law implemented they are going to turn the countries they have invaded by stealth back into the middle ages and we will be poor like the countries they have come from.

  • no disagreement here, I think you have hit the nail on the head. a represive 7th Century culture (its more than just a religion) has no place in a 21st century liberal country or countries, the two do not mix . the trouble is the politicians are leaning so far backwards so that they don't "offend" anyone that they cannot see what is right in front of them. time will pass and then we will have a civil war on our hands, I have thought that since 9/11 and 7/7 and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind, in fact its only made me more sure of my convictions on this matter.

  • I have to agree hagrid. When some try to say we used to behave the same as the fundamentalists, it's true we did. In the middle ages. In the West (and parts of the East), we moved on and grew up as a society. Everything that is unacceptable about Islamic fundamentalism occurred in Western society hundreds of years ago. As I said, we moved on.

  • I have to agree hagrid. When some try to say we used to behave the same as the fundamentalists, it's true we did. In the middle ages. In the West (and parts of the East), we moved on and grew up as a society. Everything that is unacceptable about Islamic fundamentalism occurred in Western society hundreds of years ago. As I said, we moved on.


    yes, the original Crusades were back in the 1100s, this is still used as an excuse these days by some fundamentalists as an excuse for their actions. what is so laughable if it wasn't so serious is that these hate preachers come here, they and their families live on benefit , they use the very same systems themselves that they say are decadent in their campaigns.

  • What I find objectionable is this conspiratorial idea that everyone following Islam is part of a fundamentalist movement set to overthrow the rest of the world and have everyone wearing beards and burkas - and while there certainly are people like that, for the large part it's simply not true.


    Besides, there are fundamentalists in every large religion - and while much of Islamic teaching contains archaic, bigoted nonsense, the same can be said for Christianity.


    On the flipside, there's a lot of spirituality in Islam ...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EQtaQYpzTw


    And a whole lot of dancing too...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5goISKPSH8


    And the call to prayer is one of the most hypnotic things I've ever heard...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBNUdeWw-wE

  • What I find objectionable is this conspiratorial idea that everyone following Islam is part of a fundamentalist movement set to overthrow the rest of the world and have everyone wearing beards and burkas - and while there certainly are people like that, for the large part it's simply not true.


    What percentage of Muslims do you perceive as fundamentalist?

  • I would put the fundamentalist number similar to any other religion, including Christianity. Just the west keeps screwing around with the politics of their countries leading to totalitarian dictators, instability and wars. Perfect breeding ground for the fundies.


    Just imagine if the USA went through a Syrian or Iraqi style civil war, we would easily see similar levels of religious violence take root.


    Perhaps unlike most people here, I have read the Quran, it isn't a violent book, is quite poetically beautiful and shares a heck of lot with Christianity.

  • whilst the number of fundamentalists may be small, their numbers grow every time the west gets involved in another "foreign adventure".

  • What percentage of Muslims do you perceive as fundamentalist?

    Pretty small, but I have no figures.


    Thing is, it only takes a vocal minority to give the impression of it being something far worse - especially when viewed from a western perspective.


    People seem to forget that the vast majority of people killed or displaced by Middle Eastern conflict, or suffering under Sharia, are also Muslim.

  • I too have read all of the major religions holy books and they all say basically the same thing with different personalities in different views. It is mainly down to where you are born determines which imaginary friend you believe in and how much or little the social groups you grow up with as to how much you believe. No offence to anyone who does.

  • A refugee is a guest in their host country. They should behave like guests, not try to take the over their host country. When you are in Rome, do as the Romans do. Maybe I am generalizing, but it seems me that these refugees have a sense of entitlement, sense of ingratitude and are lazy.
    There are fundamental Christians but at least they do not threaten politicians with beheading if they do not convert and implement their agenda like has happened to Jacqui Lambe this week.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/201…ed-with-beheading/6271732
    In the NSW state upper house we have
    Fred Nile whose failed agendas include criminalizing homosexuality. He makes David Cameron seem quite enlightened. He also put forward a bill to topless bathing on beaches some years ago. In the comments section of a newspaper I asked Fred Nile if a woman was flat chested, would it be alright if she just put band-aids over her nipples.We have preference voting in Australia. I always put him last or close to last.

  • I really don't think that Western intervention had anything to do with the Muslim invasion and conquest where land was taken from as far as the Levant,Palestine and Jerusalem,Egypt,Persia,Turkey ,Ghana, Afghanistan ,right upto Spain - areas that used to be called Anatolia and Andalus etc. etc. During these Muslim conquest Churches and religious buildings were destroyed and cities ransacked , the conquered people had three choices -fight and die,convert and pay the zakat tax or keep their biblical faith and pay the jizya tax, be treated as second class citizens and be referred to as dhimmis.
    Dhimmi as a status was orignally just applied to Jews, Christians and Sabians.Later the status was also applied to Zoroastrians,Mandaeans,Hindus and Buddhist.
    It should also be noted that Islamic expansion continued well into the 17th century. For example Constantinople was conquered by muslim crusaders in 1453 and Vienna was unsuccessfully beseiged for the second time in 1683.


    So far as Islam been a religion of peace,yes the meccan verses in the Koran are quite peaceful but the abridged and therefore considered superior Medina verses certainly aren't.Here the concept of jihad and conquest came about indeed you can read about how the jewish tribes that welcomed Muhammad to Medina were within two years evicted. You can also read about how the last tribe left in Medina the Banu Qurayza surrenderd to Muhammed and how over 800 men and boys ( and at least one woman ) were beheaded by the prophet of Islam.


    Here's a pew poll on some muslim views , I guess that the view that people should be killed for adultery or leaving Islam is pretty moderate.


  • A refugee is a guest in their host country. They should behave like guests, not try to take the over their host country.

    Slightly offtopic, but in order to agree with that you'd first have to agree that in the concept of nation - a paradigm that has caused more separation than anything else. People are people, and while they're divided by imaginary lines then of course there will be troubles.


    Did the British (or other European westerners) behave like guests when they were shaping the Middle East post Ottoman, or when they were conquering the rest of the world, enslaving brown skinned people or trying to convert them to Christianity?


    I also think it's potentially racist (and downright incorrect) to imply that every refugee is out to take over the country.

  • Slightly offtopic, but in order to agree with that you'd first have to agree that in the concept of nation - a paradigm that has caused more separation than anything else. People are people, and while they're divided by imaginary lines then of course there will be troubles.


    Did the British (or other European westerners) behave like guests when they were shaping the Middle East post Ottoman, or when they were conquering the rest of the world, enslaving brown skinned people or trying to convert them to Christianity?


    I also think it's potentially racist (and downright incorrect) to imply that every refugee is out to take over the country.


    Why don't you ever come on the normal threads :( it's like you don't want to speak to them there happy hippies.
    It makes me feel all inadequate :wall:
    Stop being so judgmental & ohhh what's that word :S I forget :rolleyes:
    Hi Paul :waves:
    A mention would be good :)

  • Slightly offtopic, but in order to agree with that you'd first have to agree that in the concept of nation - a paradigm that has caused more separation than anything else. People are people, and while they're divided by imaginary lines then of course there will be troubles.


    Did the British (or other European westerners) behave like guests when they were shaping the Middle East post Ottoman, or when they were conquering the rest of the world, enslaving brown skinned people or trying to convert them to Christianity?


    I also think it's potentially racist (and downright incorrect) to imply that every refugee is out to take over the country.


    Why would you even argue with racist tits? What a waste of energy :rolleyes:

  • The Saudis expelled their fundamentalists because of the need to export oil. The expelled fundamentalists have grown schools that export jihad.


    The Saudis get to stand on the fence whilst the finance for the jihadists is probably coming from their country. ....and they are let off Scot free for their intervention in the Syrian civil war.


    This is an American/Saudi conspiracy confirmed by the facts for anyone who can be bothered to look at the information.


    People are born where they are born and religion is a menace that prohibits actualisation in the hands of capitalist dictators.


    The Syrian situation is upsetting but I for one would go to war right here and now to stop these lying bastards from pissing on everyone.

  • That's the thing. If you don't like the society, don't live here. Go to a society you do like. Oh, that's right, you won't get benefits in Saudi will you?


    You make it sound so easy, why bother voting when you can just get on a plane. Mind you I wish Corbyn fans would **** off to the DPRK. I am sure they would be happier there.

  • I appreciate that it's a very simplified example, but if somebody already got on a plane/boat/bus an moved to another country, they must have in some way chosen that country for some reason.
    So, if you chose a new country, you have to accept that country as it is, and join in the society that's already there, in that country.

  • trouble is they don't, they come here and then want the same things they left behind, sharia courts, subjugation of women, mosques on every street corner, "patrols" on the street abusing anyone for their actions even if they aren't moslems.

  • I appreciate that it's a very simplified example, but if somebody already got on a plane/boat/bus an moved to another country, they must have in some way chosen that country for some reason.
    So, if you chose a new country, you have to accept that country as it is, and join in the society that's already there, in that country.


    It's a shame Corbyn supporters don't get that. They keep on talking about how they are going to change society instead of leaving it as is. If foreigners can't change anything then neither should anyone else, or else that would be racist. One thing hippies are not is racist.


    - - - Updated - - -


    trouble is they don't, they come here and then want the same things they left behind, sharia courts, subjugation of women, mosques on every street corner, "patrols" on the street abusing anyone for their actions even if they aren't moslems.


    it's a free country, they can ask for what they want, does not mean they will get it.

  • Quote from Paul

    Did the British (or other European westerners) behave like guests when they were shaping the Middle East post Ottoman,


    An area of history I don't know much about.

    Quote from Paul

    or when they were conquering the rest of the world, enslaving brown skinned people or trying to convert them to Christianity?

    Values change over time. In those days, colonialism was considered a laudable pursuit.

    Quote from Paul

    I also think it's potentially racist (and downright incorrect) to imply that every refugee is out to take over the country.


    I was referring to Muslim refugees.For the record, my paternal grandparents were refugees from the Russian revolution. However my grandfather did not come here to go on social security with 3 wives and 20 children. He went to work straight away as an architect for the federal government.
    Every Muslim terrorist act just brings developed countries together and more votes for anti-muslin politicians.