Give us all your money or the forum gets it ;)

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    Following is a breakdown of the bottom-line running costs of this website (2016), information on why it costs a lot to run, and how you can help...


    Hosting: £648 p/a inc VAT
    Domains x 4: £50 p/a


    Forum software currently costs £170, plus we've had to pay for several upgrades over the years, some which cost us over £200 - the next one will cost us £150 and will mean transferring to a new platform. (done)


    Miscellaneous paid for items (such as the mobile template) are needed occasionally - in the past we have paid for chatroom software, photo gallery software and more - these, and a bespoke mobile app, are on hold indefinitely until debts* are paid.


    Why?


    When this forum started we used a standard "shared" hosting package costing us around £50 a year - fine for non-interactive sites and anything with low traffic. As the forum grew it started crashing, and so we looked into new options - we tried another shared host, but we had the same problems, and so we switched to a couple of Virtual Private Servers (vps) costing us around £30+ a month. Again, similar problems, although not as bad as before.


    Even during quieter times we get up to 3 million hits per month; this forum is valued by members and a resource to non-members all around the world, and it would be a shame to lock that down. That's not including the bandwidth used by subscription emails or notifications etc.


    About three or so years ago we upgraded to a fast server with lots of processing power and RAM, costing us around £45 a month+VAT, with telephone support, regular backups and based in the UK for better response time - it rarely crashes and it's typically stable and the best it's ever been. The guys are vbulletin experts and know their shit.


    So while we occasionally hear people say "I can get you a better deal", or "that sounds expensive", jumping ship now we have a reliable company isn't going to happen any time soon - there's too much of a risk of going backwards.


    Since 2005 we have invested thousands of pounds into this site, largely paid for by donations (not including the original investment in setting the site up), but regardless of this the site still owes me (Paul) a little under £600 (down from £800). This is because, over the last ten years, when donations were low, I made up the difference out of my own pocket and never recuperated it. I'm unwilling to invest anymore of my own cash until I'm square, I've spent too much.

    Donations pay for the site.


    Donations help - and in order to keep this site afloat we need a minimum of £60 a month.


    This covers the costs of the hosting and domain registration and the percentage Paypal takes for processing the funds, but no more. Anything above that will eventually clear the debts, but not if we have a bad month, then it's back to playing catch up again.

    The current minimum one-off donation is now £7, but you can set up a subscription donation for £5 per month which can be cancelled at any time via your paypal account.


    We have over 16000 members on this site, and if everyone donated we would never need to ask for money again.


    In summary...



    • Making a donation does not exempt anyone from the rules of the site.
    • Making a donation helps a lot and stops worrying about ongoing costs.
    • Money goes to renewing domain names, upgrading software, hosting, adding features as they're needed, software licenses and anything else to do with the site running costs.
    • Hosting on a high speed server costs us over £640 per year and that's without software updates, domain registration etc.
    • Software upgrades and new features add more to this. For example, the gallery cost us £50+ everytime we did an upgrade, if we ever want to bring back features (such as the chatroom) they too will cost us similar or higher prices - last time around, upgrading the software that runs the forum cost us in the region of £200. The next upgrade will cost us £140 and we are currently overdue for one.
    • We have spent several thousand pounds since the site began in September 2005 and we still only just scrape through.
    • In the future, we may incur extra costs, like developing mobile apps etc. For instance, apart from the dev costs, the fee would be $100usd a year just to run an app on the Apple app store and $25usd for Android
    • We do not profit from donations to this website, but unfortunately paypal does take a small percentage because we use a premium verified account - there's nothing we can do about this; all merchant banking systems take a percentage of the money transferred
    • Please consider that, if we were employing someone to run this site for 8 hours a day on minimum wage they would have earned over £139000 by now (Based on 2016 minimum wage rates).
    • When this website started (in the days before social media), we invested a lot of money believing the site would flourish. Because donations have been slow in forthcoming, this left approximately £800 (now £600) worth of arrears. Failure to hit the donation target increases these arrears
    • We rarely hit our monthly running costs (see arrears above) - even when we have a good month it covers the previous month.



    Affiliates


    Around this website you will see affiliate links to Ebay, and I may add others at some point - using these links will set a cookie on your computer and thus a small percentage of your purchases through these stores will be passed our way. This doesn't bring in a lot, but again it helps.


    Paid membership ideas


    This is an egalitarian website, and as such so we don't wish to restrict people because of a low income. Again, we may have to go down this route at some point, but it's against our wider principles to do so.


    Advertising


    I have resisted paid advertising because it's a pain in the arse to manage and would take the website out of the hobbyist domain and into the business domain - it's not completely dismissed it, in fact it's becoming more likely, but I'm holding off for as long as I can.


    Alternatives to Paypal?


    No; it's too much hassle trying to run merchant accounts and set up payment processors - this website is run as a hobby and as such we keep it simple as possible. Implementing any other system would be too time/effort consuming at present and cause us problems with processing fees, tax etc.


    You do not need a Paypal account to use paypal for donations.



    Newcomers bonuses


    If you are a newbie seeing this post, a donation to the running costs of this site will give you access to all the forums that are currently restricted by post count. Click here for more information.


    Please note that donations are processed manually, so may not happen the second you hit the "submit" key.


    Thank you smile.gif



    Any questions or ideas, please discuss below smile.gif

  • I am willing to make a wee one off donation but need to wait til next month:S sorry I am on wee low income :S

    I've only just spotted this, and thank you.


    As I've always said, if people are skint then there are far more pressing issues to tend with than a web forum - donations are appreciated, and while I might put the pressure on when we struggle, they should never be considered obligatory for people on low incomes.



    Meanwhile we're doing kind of OK (said tentatively). This month has been slow thus far and we need to keep the momentum going, but the previous three months were much better, so thank you everyone. :)

  • I think we should all have a whip round tonight to show our appreciation.
    Can't be easy dealing with the likes of me.
    Anyone who pokes up with me for more than a month is worth a fiver.
    Don't spend it all at once!


    Thanks for getting me through & not banning me :clap:

  • I'am fortunate enough to be able to live completely off grid without petrochemical transport at my base in Mid-Wales, free of any government attachments. Although on a miniscule cash income I think this forum offers a unique resource to those striving to live in a cooperative "green" fashion which the likes of FB just can't match. So I'am prepared to forego bought in cash products from time to time in order to support it with cash.
    I must remember to log in to Ebay via here in order to help with this. I of course will find it on the web by using the "Ecosia" search engine who use 80% of their profits to plant trees :- https://info.ecosia.org/project

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  • I'm just going to create a little boundary here following a few deleted posts.


    This is a thread for discussing forum donations and to answer any questions - it's not a laugh and jokes thread, it's not a place to moan about moderation. In fact it's not a place to moan about anything or be negative in any way at all (there are other places for that).


    There is no obligation to donate, donating doesn't give you special powers or privileges or allow you to bypass the rules, and it certainly doesn't pay my rent. But it does help the forum to survive - which is something I'm not prepared to dip into my own pocket for again as it's happened to often and I'm unwilling to deal with the stress.


    I am grateful for anyone who does donate, it takes the pressure off me and helps the site - but if you don't wish to do so (or you cannot afford it or think it's too expensive) then carry on using the site for free and I won't think any less of you for doing so.

  • This is a thread for discussing forum donations and to answer any questions - it's not a laugh and jokes thread, it's not a place to moan about moderation. In fact it's not a place to moan about anything or be negative in any way at all (there are other places for that).

    May I enquire in a positive way why you have raised the minimum donation amount to £7? It is by no means a negative reflection upon this forum that many people, particularly oldies, have very limted incomes and may have felt comfortable with donating a smaller amount, but may baulk at the "increase", which if I'm right will reduce your income, the opposite of the very positive goal of supporting you which we wish to achieve.

  • I answered this the other day here but will copy my response here for clarity, it's the bit in red that's important.


    With the above in mind I will review this as things progress, but I am mindful that since I raised the minimum one-off donation we've paid the bills on time consistently for the last three months - something that often failed to happen before, thus leaving me out of pocket.


    If people wish to donate a fiver, or any other amount, then simply use the direct paypal address (donations @ ukhippy.com) - it's all appreciated, but this will not be automatically added to the ticker bar and not override the 40 post access restrictions.

  • Post by NomadicRT ().

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  • I would have donated, but I will not use or support PayPal for historic reasons.


    It might be worth you looking at PayM as an alternative. This is a free bank to bank transfer I believe. I joined the scheme, but haven't yet used it. :)

  • It might be worth you looking at PayM as an alternative. This is a free bank to bank transfer I believe. I joined the scheme, but haven't yet used it. :)

    This, or something similar to this, has been suggested before - but it means revealing my phone number, or faffing around with a new number and linking it into my personal banking.


    Paypal is convenient - it links in with the website to keep track of progress and I can pay the bills directly from paypal so I don't need to move money around. It keeps the running of this website convenient and separate from all my other living / working expenses.

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  • I would have donated, but I will not use or support PayPal for historic reasons.


    It might be worth you looking at PayM as an alternative. This is a free bank to bank transfer I believe. I joined the scheme, but haven't yet used it. :)


    Ping it the cash to someone you trust. Let them PayPal it..or does that not work for you?

  • I just need to add that I have no payment protection if a paypal donation gets reversed (and this seems to happen at least once a month).


    If anyone does make a donation, please make sure you have funds to cover it. It makes things complicated when I need to juggle other people's unmanageability.


    Thank you :)

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