Boat Building - enduring the deluge

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  • Is anyone else becoming concerned about all this persistence we are enduring?


    I seem to have lost count - so correct me for your own region - but we have had constant rain and storms since before the holidays
    Our locale is now succumbing and we are becoming an island with access to our village becoming slightly maritime.


    Should we be sacrificing some noobies?

  • Is anyone else becoming concerned about all this persistence we are enduring?


    I seem to have lost count - so correct me for your own region - but we have had constant rain and storms since before the holidays
    Our locale is now succumbing and we are becoming an island with access to our village becoming slightly maritime.


    Should we be sacrificing some noobies?


    I have a spare sea kayak . . .

  • To be fair, yes climate change must have something to do with it, but it is a freakish mental el ninio this time, i have heard apparently its a 30 year cycle cos if you look at the moon of an evening its very very close, thats making massive tide swings and cocking up how the weather works making stirms brew etc.


    However add climate change to the mix its making things very bad indeed.


    Thing is what do we do sacrifice agricultural land for bog on the tops making the drains silt up, or sacrifice land below for flooding to stop it flooding the towns and cities.


    Most of the towns are built in flood basins hundreds of years ago theese probo flooded but people thought hmm best not build there or live there and it was used as grazing and it was good rich land but a flood plain, so stock and crops tended not to be grown there as it was to wet.


    on the hill tops most hill farms did ok by managing land and stock to suit weather.


    forward to today yes we have mental rain now but we ve stupidly built on flood plains creating more problems and we are still building on flood plains why i just dont know, i know of several new housing estates built on land yards that flooded, they say oh we l put tanks in etc but why the hell do we still build on flood plains.


    In future i see hilly land as gold dust maybe sad as it sounds if rivers become lakes in the future then maybe people will live on the high commons and just declare flood plains unnihabitable as the rains become to much so will the uplands become urban and the lowlands become like a muddy basin with occasional green fields.


    Oh and just a point before i get people ranting on about overgrazing, the land near me has less sheep on nowadays than it did 30 years ago as its fairly uneconmic to have more sheep than the land will take and farmers arnt paid per head of sheep anymore.


    ( i do think heather burning might be a bit iffy)


    No we cant blame anyone the weather is just plain mental,


    Damming schemes near me have worked well but whats not talked about is the old ditches have been dredged, so a local town got 2 bonus points dams upstream and water away downstream, however that made life worse for towns downstream.


    Selby seemed to escape this time as a farmer has (prob paid) let his fields flood again sacrifice food but if it saves people s homes and lives then we have to sacrifice food and land end of.


    Maybe we will have giant lakes with fish in


    Or maybe this is a one off for a bit till we find a solution


    Holland manages but it doesnt have massive mountains and hills that woosh water downstream.


    I remeber i once went to holland on a college trip, and there policy to farmers was to keep the ditches dug if they didnt they got heavy fines, again this maybe works on flat land but add a few steep hills maybe its differant

  • I think they build on flood plains because the land is relatively cheap. Nowadays it is probably much easier to get building permission too; a few brown envelopes to help councillors along, of course. Then the houses are built by developers and sold dearly to middle-class types moving into the area who wouldn't know a flood plain if it came up and spoke to them.

  • Our first home was a small townhouse new build on a field near the village centre. It was infill but not all of it - to my knowledge was brown field. Just a field with poor drainage and poor access but when they pulled down the brown field part it was bought by a builder for thirty homes.


    I was able to watch a lot of the development and was particularly interested when the drains went. The site sloped so the drains at our end were 10-15 down and quite big. They were the size of drains and sumps that would house a family in Manila. We never flooded and never suffered standing water while we were there.

  • My mate bought a house that was built on a flood plain, it too had big massive wells put in, how the hell they work i dont know but surely if water is getting away from an old flood plain, it must be going somewhere else?


    i cant work out how they work those pits when water table high, are they pumped out when water up, thus making water for some one else worse?


    or if the pits work and i soaks away that means under water aquefur topped to max and does that mean probs downstreem.


    I used to think as achedemics as idiots talking about diff flood schemes but some of em make sense.

  • My mate bought a house that was built on a flood plain, it too had big massive wells put in, how the hell they work i dont know but surely if water is getting away from an old flood plain, it must be going somewhere else?


    i cant work out how they work those pits when water table high, are they pumped out when water up, thus making water for some one else worse?


    Drainage - as in the fens of Cambridge and Norfolk - essentially reclaimed land or one big flood plain. Land reclamation engineered by those clever Dutch immigrants. Lots of canals and waterways which take the water away giving flat farmland (which sometimes floods). Water always flows downhill usually to a lake or the sea. In Holland the sea is sometimes above the land and SO pumping engines were installed and are used in Norfolk.


    The Cornish tin mines sometimes went out under the sea for some distance (submarine mines) and needed the water in the mine to be lifted and removed by pumps at sea level on the shore. There aren't many dry Cornish mines.


    Not sure how to work out flood schemes for towns and villages on rivers without knowing what changes made for one village will have on the one upstream and the ones downstream. In the UK - in the last few years - we have suffered an increase in rainfall and less drought and the water defenses have been inadequate as soon as they are completed.


    I suppose we should ask ourselves will the UK float without some sacrifice?

  • As suggested above, different schemes work in different ways, depending on local conditions, and the quality of the engineers who designed and built them. The ones downriver from us take the form of designated flood plains (Developers keep nibbling at the edges), and when the rivers rise above a certain point, or the runoff from the town is too great, the huge gates or locks into these plains are opened, and they take immense amounts of water. As the river levels fall, some of this excess water is allowed to drain back into the river. They have to take it gradually, otherwise the next town downriver will be hit by a swirling flooding river.
    That developers want to build houses on parts of these flood plains "Because they don't get flooded in years, do they?" is amazing.

  • Was on the news that the uplands farmers may get paid to create dams, now it sounds like a good idea, however, that will put towns into a tempory fix and then they will get used to not flooding and again build more on food plains, now some land upstream is quite good useful land if that put out of action, and say there s a food shortage in years to come do we risk draining and re enstating the land thus potentially making the bigger towns built still in dodgy flood plains at risk?


    Another problem i forsee is that most streams near me start on common land, again owned by the lord of the manor again, mr toff will get big cheques from the tax payer, however if he dams his streams near my dads spot dads drains will silt up as water wont be able to get away, then its proving that the dams cause the drainage problem.


    I guess acceptance maybe to accept planting of trees in uplands as its been researched that the roots allow surface runoff soak in the ground.


    All that got to be accepted is that a lot of moor will become unacesasble bog or dams or some moor may become wood.


    Still bugs me that typically most of the becks near me start on the moor which is owned by the lord of the manor, (whos mates with cameron who likes moor fracking) he does fkk all is loaded and will get even more tax payers money, however for the greater good of people downstream this ideas may have to be implemented


    What i do find odd os that blame os cast on modern farming practises.


    The drains on me dads spot are hundreds and hundreds of yeears old, some stone culverts work well to this day.
    It was hrdly a boggy wetland back then in fact some of the newr drains are blocked from 40 years ago


    Will we get to a stage where land upstream is knackered as well as downstream, because the low land is heavy and waterlogged in this weather for months and months after weather like this thus basicly out of action, if this was the case we could end up sacrificing a hell of a lot of land, putting us dangerously close to economic fluxtuations.


    Its just fenominal mental angry horrible weather,


    I can remeber as a kid watching with me dad a tide of water come down the moor sweeping heather bracken small trees down the moor it hit the back of his house with a bang ripped the diesel pipe off the wall then was gone it was a flash flood in the middle of summer the villagers all too had water fly down the hill into thier houses trees ripped up in the streem,


    That was in 1987, dad said it was a weird hundred year thing as his uncle remebers the same thing happening and the barn gable getting wased down, in the 1800 s and it happed before that.


    Touch wood its never happened again, up at me dads was strange a big isolated storm just over the village nowhere else, big flash flood roads ripped up then back to summer again.


    Nowadays we seem to get constant non stop rain.

  • What's happening is a culmination of many small things. The weather is bad at the moment, but it's been worse before.


    Yes you have buildings on flood plains, but that's been going on for generations. Ditches are dug, then fill up, then are cleared, then fill up, ad infinitum. Drains aren't cleared as regularly as they used to be, but would that really make a massive difference?


    One thing that has increased steadily over the years is the use of hard surfacing. Everyone has a driveway these days, nearly every road has pathways on both sides, the roads themselves are widened and widened again. Patios in every back garden, massive car parks outside massive shopping centres. Basically, all this hard standing is taking away earth for the water to soak into.


    What this means is that instead of soaking into the ground and slowly seeping down towards streams and rivers, the rain is hitting hard ground and and hitting the waterways at a much higher speed; the river levels rise quicker and, because the flood plains have been built on the water has nowhere to go, except over the banks...and most busy habitations are built by rivers!

  • And yet - after a day or so - the standing water will drain away and the rivers will return to their flowing selves.


    There are many areas needing flood defences that previously were not affected and others needing improvements to their defences because something has changed.


    I consider that there have always been fields we pass during our daily wind where flooding has always occurred. I think of York in the seventies and my Triumph Dolomite being parked on the river bank. We just rescued it in time to avoid a wet seat and a non starter. We tried again a few weeks later and then decided to find more suitable parking.


    Previously, we were told by certain agencies that as we are extracting more and more water from aquifers and rivers and that reservoirs were not being filled sufficiently that droughts were to be expected.


    But now we are trying solve inundations that are completely natural - we think. There are many theories and some are above and rightly so. Some involve climate change and some peeps will point to changes in cultivation practises.


    Some people may say but there are more people now and they are using more resources. They may point to the Amazon and the like and mention deforestation and rightly so.


    Some subtle people will look at conflicts and wars and also movements of people and their domestic needs. I have heard of excess methane and cooking fires and even heating homes in the cooler latitudes.


    I have never heard a volcano but I am sure that clouds of ash and dust will affect the regional climate for years afterward (Mt St Helens etc).


    So who pays the sacrifice?