Could the election have been rigged?

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  • Long post ahead ...


    OK, so people who know me know I'm sceptical of most (if not all conspiracy theories), more than that I have an instinctive shudder whenever I hear anything about the igloominati etc.


    But after the whole of Britain woke up face-palming, I'm wondering what would need to be in place to rig the entire 2015 general election... I'm not saying it was rigged, I'm merely speculating about whether it could be done, and the likelihood of it being attempted.


    In my borough (Tower Hamlets) the mayor has just been sacked for corruption - and people were accusing him of vote rigging for years - I was always a bit sceptical when friends would go on about it, but it turned out to be true. It's this that got me thinking more...


    The plot thickens as a week before the election it was revealed that General Election postal ballots had been delivered to a derelict building in Tower Hamlets (not council papers)


    So that's just circumstantial evidence, as are the following...


    Judge warns of postal ballot fraud


    Expats in uproar over missing ballot papers


    Concerns about rigging after flood of last minute postal votes


    Labour and Green left off of postal ballots


    Ballot boxes not properly sealed


    Voting irregularities in Pendle


    Van containing 200 thousand Hastings ballot papers nicked from Dagenham


    Thousands of voters denied ballots


    UKIP make accusations of Thanet vote rigging


    OK, that's just a few - feel free to dig up more.


    Now the following is an article from the Guardian demonstrating how accurate pre-election opinion polls are...


    Can we trust polling? It pretty much suggests we can, which explains everyone's shock at the result.



    Here are the blog links that OldKeith posted in the "holee krapp" thread...


    Is the election being rigged?

    BBC accused of rigging the odds through airtime favouritism

    Analysis of stolen van contents - Labour were expected to win in Hastings


    Vote rigging in Scottish Referendum



    On the subject of Scotland, here's a link from Russia Today about the security they believed they needed for the General Election - suggesting there was a very real fear about it. Would be interesting to hear a Scottish perspective on whether is was.


    Plus of course the new voting system forcing people to use the NI numbers to register, and potentially frightening off anyone with privacy concerns.



    So, like I said, I don't do conspiracy theories (generally) and I'm merely speculating, but ...

  • Post by Sir Real ().

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  • I'm similarly skeptical of conspiracy theories, and I can't see a large scale plot going on here. However, every incident of this kind needs to be thoroughly investigated as we tend to assume that corruption is something that happens in other countries. That assumption is very dangerous. I've lived in some very corrupt countries indeed, and the parallels grow more and more alarming. Remember the coalition five years ago forming a "government of national salvation"? The only places you hear that kind of language are run by military juntas. The name allows them to believe that they can do whatever they like (whether it was in any manifesto or not) because its in the "national interest". Anyone who reads will by now know that we were never in danger of going bankrupt a la Greece, and the coalition always knew that. National interest in their eyes looks suspiciously like their sponsors interests. The revolving doors between government and industry, press collusion and juicy contracts for party donors, let alone made to order tax loopholes, are all the sort of thing that have alarm bells screaming in my ears because I've seen it all before. Just not in a democratic country.

  • I'm similarly skeptical of conspiracy theories

    I think my scepticism is to do with the way people worry about clandestine secret societies (for example) and fail to focus on issues we can actually see.


    We don't need a conspiracy to realise we've got a global elite, because they've never tried to hide it - but as a result of the lizard-munchers all governmental corruption gets tarred with the same brush and dismissed as batshit.


    Same for the ongoing paedo scandal - if you scratch around on Youtube you'll find all sorts of conspiracy ideas - like baby-eating and sapping life-force from drinking children's blood - like it's not bad enough to just be a paedo, they have to be paedo shape-shifting reptile too! This sort of stuff really can't be doing any genuine investigation any good.

  • It can be but they would look very foolish if it was found out.


    However is there a need when certain events just happen to fall in their favour? The papers supporting them & the Scots being royally pissed off for instance.

  • I personally think they were rigged because in my social life I don't know of anyone who would ever vote Tory ... But also in my work life I don't know of anyone either ... Everyone I know either voted labour or Green Party !

    But that could just reflect the type of people you're drawn to.


    I know at least 4, but only one that I'd really call a friend - we nearly fell out over it too, mostly 'cos he's done a lot of front-line work with recovering addicts, so *should* have been more aware of the issues around services being cut. The only thing that saved the friendship was that I've known him for 28 years.

  • The only thing that saved the friendship was that I've known him for 28 years.


    This was "the only thing that saved the friendship"?


    Surely he must a few have more qualities as a friend than just a number of years?

  • I don't think there was any need to. Sadly despite the fact that David Cameron and the tories are complete shits they won due to a combination of poor opposition from labour, big SNP gains from labour (which judging from scottish reaction I have no doubt couldn't be rigged) and big lib dem losses (which makes sense seeing how people have completely lost trust in the lib dems after they got into bed with the tories and broke all their promises).
    Were the tories really that desperate to stay in office that they would be willing to risk such a thing? If they ever got found out they would be in serious, serious trouble (David Cameron would be impeached at the very least) and the chances of that happening would be pretty high due to the number of people you'd have to involve in such a plot.
    In the end of the day you have to accept that this is a conservative country, particuarly when there's a recession, and that there are a lot of dye-in-the-wool conservatives in this country who would vote tory if Hitler became leader.

  • I think there is a possibility that they could have rigged particular results in a few key constituencies, where they badly wanted to win. But it would need the collusion of the secret services, or sections of them, and would need to have the nod at the highest level.


    When these people organise things not many people know. And all who do are thereafter in fear of their very lives if they say anything.
    So nothing gets said. Tens of thousands of people disappear every year in the UK. A few more would not make any difference.


    On a different note, just after the election I met by accident an old work colleague, whom I had not seen for years. A likeable enough old guy, but nonetheless a staunch bloody Tory, a proper 'County' chap. Anyway, I expressed surprise at the election result, in the light of the opinion polls beforehand, and he smiled and said
    "I heard it would go like it did.'
    I had to ask how.
    He had had a conversation with a rather high up Tory official before the election, he said, and expressed his dismay at the way the opinion polls were going.
    'Don't worry Arnold', said this toff confidently, 'We already have everything well in hand!'


    Just an expression of confidence in his party's organisational ability, of course.

  • Not the thread for what - talking about your friend?


    Then why mention him in the first place?

    Because it was relevant to the suggestion that nobody knew anyone who voted tory, but now it verges on taking the thread further offtopic - and also, the way I interact with my friends is really not up for detailed analysis or discussion beyond the information I choose to disclose.

  • Yes I think the election could have been rigged, and I think our referendum result was rigged.


    Without pontificating too much about who voted for who, where and in what proportion I would just like to see the result of David Cameron's scoring on the Hare test. He REALLY wants to stay in power.

  • I'm similarly skeptical of conspiracy theories


    Sometimes I think that the greatest trick that western governments have pulled in the past century is to convince so many people, like your good self, that anything that can be labeled "conspiracy theory" is automatically the crazed rantings of some unwashed hippy.


    Although I'm in no way saying that any conspiracy theory is due national attention without any form of scrutiny or requirement of evidence, we similarly shouldn't be so dismissive of them, as many of the worst of them have turned out to be true - such as the child molestation scandal currently being unveiled through decades of successive UK governments (though we can still see the workings of the machine trying to suppress much of it).


    Of course, this only goes for conspiracy theories related to the government and people. Anything which obviously contradicts the state of the art in science, etc, can be dismissed fairly quickly, i.e. aliens, cold fusion, all that nonsense.

  • What got me was the pencils at the polliing booths... i felt sure that i had always voted with a biro before... so I checked with my Mum and she said that she has ALWAYS voted with a pencil and can never remember it not being a stubby carpenters style pencil.


    So I felt sure that they'd rigged the poll by making us all use pencils but turns out it's been that way since at least 1968 cos thats when my Mum turned 18. So then that made me think... well if they were going to rig the poll that way, then they've been at it for donkeys years... but like Mum said, the ballot boxes are sealed and only opened at the count...


    So then I was kind of resigned to the fact that we're just a Tory-Loving country pretty much... but that fact about the postal votes going missing, and ballot papers not being printed up with all the candidates... on the face of it, looks like human error and an unintentional fuck up... but if you're going to screw the voting public over then the best way to do it would be to make it look like an innocent accident.... ya know, like they made the twin towers look like an act of terrorism ;) :p


    All that said, and you know I am a bit of a conspiraloon, I just don't think this government has got the intelligence to wangle it... so then you have to look at the global ruling elite.... and it's pretty well common knowledge that primeministers and presidents are chosen and groomed from early childhood...so I don't put it past the ruling global elite at all to very cleverly and snidely pull the strings and get election results exactley how they want them....

  • In answer to the original question. Yes. Undoubtedly it could. Indeed there are many who think it was. Its very possible. Those of us who are old enough to remember in the early 70's there was a national referendum. We were told we all had a vote on weather to stay in or out of the EEC as it was then. Jobs were promised. The votes were cast. And came the bombshell. Even though the local vote counters were deemed capable and reliable when it came to counting votes for elections, we were all told that the votes would be collected, seals up and transported to London to be counted. :D
    As well, consider this - those who do vote present themselves at the designated ballot station, "prove" their identity and are handed voting papers. These papers have a number printed down the side, that number corresponds to the one against your name on the list and the one you are issued. Its not hard to imagine in these days of rapid counting machinery that exactly WHO voted which was is more than possible to determine.

  • Not that I liked the outcome, but as for conspiracy theories in general, I always ask myself how many people would need to be in on it for it to happen. F'rinstance the moon landings being rigged doesn't do it for me 'cos thousands would have had to have been complicit. As we've seen from the Snowden stuff the more in on it there are the more likely a there will be a whistleblower. Don't believe there wouldn't have been one by now for both the Moon stuff and the election.
    However, the Princess Diana assasination stuff is much more plausible IMHO 'cos only a few would have needed to be involved. (And she was making a nuisance of herself to the establishment. Also she was given £15m to go away and live quietly)

  • I personally think they were rigged because in my social life I don't know of anyone who would ever vote Tory ... But also in my work life I don't know of anyone either ... Everyone I know either voted labour or Green Party !


    Lots of surprising people I know voted Conservative, If Labour had been a credible party with real policies and not just a bunch of failed born losers they may have got somewhere but a tosser is a tosser even if they are a Labour MP with a posh accent who never did a real days work in their lives.

  • - I know of No one who claims to have voted Tory at the last election !
    = Given the scale of their 'Victory' ..... Figure that !


    I voted conservative and a lot of my hairy tattooed biker mates voted Tory too because we are sick of the wet limp wristed Labour wingers that pass for politicians.


    No contest, bikers respect people who say what they are going to do and them do it. milliband? not worth wasting a vote on.


    You have to accept the fact that Milliband was the reason they lost, no conspiracy


  • Governments don't rig elections by direct fraud. There's no need to. They already rig elections quite successfully with bribery, broken promises, sleek and expensive PR campaigns, spin doctors, leveraging of the media (and in particular the BBC), the propagation of misinformation and the destruction and hiding of good information.


    The fact is that most people in our society are extremely fickle-minded, gullible, naive, etc. Why bother risking prison by fixing the vote by laundering the ballots when you can do it with perfectly legal doublespeak?

  • I voted conservative and a lot of my hairy tattooed biker mates voted Tory too because we are sick of the wet limp wristed Labour wingers that pass for politicians.


    No contest, bikers respect people who say what they are going to do and them do it. milliband? not worth wasting a vote on.


    You have to accept the fact that Milliband was the reason they lost, no conspiracy


    I have to say, it's pretty retarded to vote for a party because of what you think about some other party. You should only vote for a party if you genuinely align yourselves with their core values, ideologies and policies.


    Yes, Milliband is an incompetent twat, but he's almost precisely as incompetent as the twats you voted for. You are the victim of a very well-polished PR campaign by the tories to make themselves APPEAR credible, and make their opponents APPEAR weak and dithering.


    But appearances can be designed, especially if you have access to the kind of money political parties do - particularly the tories. In reality, the tories are no more credible, or in control, or stable than Labour would have been. You've been sold a lemon, I'm afraid.

  • Lots of surprising people I know voted Conservative, If Labour had been a credible party with real policies and not just a bunch of failed born losers they may have got somewhere but a tosser is a tosser even if they are a Labour MP with a posh accent who never did a real days work in their lives.


    Another victim of the tory PR campaign. Your description of labour is accurate, but it applies just as well to the tories. The tories made you believe that it didn't. The tories made you believe that labour were much weaker than they were, by spending lots of money to promote that message.

  • - I know of No one who claims to have voted Tory at the last election !
    = Given the scale of their 'Victory' ..... Figure that !


    The scale of the victory is not that huge... about 37% of people voted tory. That means almost 2/3 of voters do not feel represented by the government they got, not including the 34% of eligible voters who didn't vote at all - I very much doubt the majority of them would have voted tory if forced to vote. The winning government is almost never the government that the majority of people want. This is a flaw in the FPTP system.


    Also, remember that your own sample size in these matters is vanishingly small and skewed by your social background, your line of work, the area you live and the type of people you surround yourself with.


    I found this out the hard way during the independence referendum - I'm from the east end of Glasgow, and I can tell you that the atmosphere leading up to the referendum was electrifying. Everybody I knew was voting yes. My family, people I work with, friends, people I met on the streets. All the cars were covered in YES stickers, and from what I was experiencing, I was expecting a landslide yes vote.


    As we now know, it wasn't a landslide yes vote. It was a marginal no vote. What happened? Well, Glasgow voted yes, and east Glasgow especially. All that happened was that my experience was skewed by the fact that I lived in a big Yes area, I associated with the type of people likely to vote yes (because you always associate with like minded people, right?).


    Same is true for you. Nobody in your small area of the country, in your particular office, in your particular home, among you particular set of friends/family voted Tory. But there's a whole lot more people out there living very different lives with very different beliefs that you wouldn't even think of associating with - and they voted tory.