[UK News] Fire in dogs home

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  • For what it's worth I don't think you're a troll, you just have strong opinions about things. Just like me, so we'll probably get used to butting heads :pp :)


    I think you know this


    He will probably end up getting compensation for the stress it has caused him.


    isn't true though. And if he does get counselling, good! Counselling would be a lot more use than scrubbing toilet floors will - you only have to look at the amount of people who frequently re-offend to see that just sticking them in a cell doesn't work :p

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • Someone I think it was Twister mentioned that no-one is born bad or born evil, many of you came up with 'he's just a child!'. Stop and think for a minute leaving this case aside of some of the cases in the news in recent and distant times perpetrated by children, sometimes much younger than 14.
    An interesting book is 'The Neurobiological Basis of Violence: Sience & Rehabilitation' - Essi Viding one of the authors is worth looking up on you tube too.

  • Someone I think it was Twister mentioned that no-one is born bad or born evil, many of you came up with 'he's just a child!'. Stop and think for a minute leaving this case aside of some of the cases in the news in recent and distant times perpetrated by children, sometimes much younger than 14.


    Yes, do look at those, and look at the shitty backgrounds most of those kids had, or the circumstances that led to them doing whatever they did. It's very rare that someone just 'isn't wired right', and in that case they need help and yes, if that means keeping them away from the public then fine, but just baying for their blood doesn't do much. But more commonly they are children who's lives could've turned out differently had they had the support and guidance they need as children, and are still redeemable if given the correct help and support as adults.


    I understand that you're not at work and this forum is your 'down time', but I have to agree with DaisyDreamer, if you're (as you said) 'in training for one of the professions that identifies and helps the perpetrators of acts like this', your attitude is concerning. How are you going to be able to help them if you're coming at it with the attitude that some people are beyond help? :S

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • The lad in custody is "vehemently denying" burning down the dogs home, there's been no court trial that's found him guilty and the authorities have released no indisputable proof that the lad they are questioning is guilty of setting the fire either purposefully, or as a prank or accidentally. Our society has decided this lad is not old enough to live by himself, support himself financially, have sex, drink alcohol,join the army, vote in elections or leave school. We have decided that 15 year olds still need adult care and supervision, and protection, because they are not yet old enough to "be an adult". So where in all that is it ok for actual grown up adults to be calling for this accused, not convicted,just accused, 15yr old to be hurt,tortured,killed,locked away for the rest of his life,written off as evil and beyond redemption etc before hes even reached what we've decided is adulthood?


    People are upset because around 60 dogs died but where in all the media hysterics are the figures for how many dogs are killed in the uk every single day by pounds because there isnt the physical space or finances to keep all the abandoned and rejected dogs that our "country of animal lovers" have washed their hands of? The Dogs Trust say its around 21 dogs A DAY, and over seven THOUSAND "put to sleep"/killed stone dead last year. Many of these healthy, well behaved dogs are killed after just 7 days of being in kennels waiting for an owner to come forward, because there is nowhere for them to go. In the time since that tragic fire there have already been more dogs killed by pounds/kennels than lost their lives due to that fire, but people still want to spew vitriol at one 15yr old despite knowing absolutely nothing about his guilt or innocence or the circumstances of the fire, while hiding behind the bullshit facade that the hate is "because we're animal lovers". How is that defendable?

  • Yet another example of trial by media. Guilty before charged and convicted, and irrespective future life ruined because of an accusation. Somehow there needs to be a balance that protects the right to a fair trial and representation versus the right to common knowledge that justice is being seen to be done.


    We seem to have lost that courtesy of the media who jump on sensationalist bandwagons in order to sell their wares and our police force pandering to their and the gossip mongers whims for information and action even before those accused know or are given a chance to speak.


    Apart from the obvious sex scandals there was also that case of the parents who removed their daughter from hospital to seek treatment for her cancer and an international arrest warrant and manhunt was raised with no evidence of a crime, and subsequently I believe non to be found.


    I am in no way suggesting we should not make information available on progress of criminal investigations, nor that accused should be given blanket anonymity. However we (viz society) seem to have lost the plot completely with the police giving the press too much access and information and the press's freedom to vilify people without proper respect to either their rights or the law in giving people a fair trial.


    Ian

  • UPDATE: 'No charges will brought against two boys arrested in connection with a fire at Manchester Dogs' Home, said police.'


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-30325881

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • I believe there is way too much leniency shown towards offenders nowadays, there is no way that he is unaware of right and wrong, and if you're old enough to commit a crime of this level, and this callousness, then yeah, they should throw the book at him. But there are people out there that think he should be wrapped in cotton wool. At the end of the day, he, at worst, will end up in a young offenders institution, with a ps3, and alot of opportunities that most people wouldn't be able to afford access to, and that's proper out of order. And his excuse, that once, a dog bit him? That warrants setting them on fire???? I think peoples outrage is fully justified.


    Hi hope you dont mind if I chip in on the thing you said about knowing right from wrong, first off I dont know the kid involved and I only know what I have read on this page about this trajic occurance but I did nightwatch 3 nights a week at the huddersfield city farm about 25 years ago because of an arson attack there where huge poly tunnels were set alight fire spread causing death and misery and trauma to a not small variety of animals. At the time I think if I had come across one of them I would of kicked the living shit out of him /her. I didnt and I didnt, but every night when I was on watch [they hadnt caught anybody] I used to hope they would come to do similar, sorry my point was Ive learned since- that the lessons learned about what is right and what is wrong can be massively different dependant on who was doing the teaching.:flower:

  • I believe there is way too much leniency shown towards offenders nowadays, there is no way that he is unaware of right and wrong, and if you're old enough to commit a crime of this level, and this callousness, then yeah, they should throw the book at him. But there are people out there that think he should be wrapped in cotton wool. At the end of the day, he, at worst, will end up in a young offenders institution, with a ps3, and alot of opportunities that most people wouldn't be able to afford access to, and that's proper out of order. And his excuse, that once, a dog bit him? That warrants setting them on fire???? I think peoples outrage is fully justified.

    What if a similar crime happened at an abattoir or farm, would you feel the same then?


    Would it make a difference if they were cows? What if they were creatures we don't typically consider pleasant - like woodlice or rats?


    I think you see where I'm going with this ... apart from not having a clue about what was going on in the perpetrators' mind, we also live in a society where life is seen as disposable when it suits us and precious when that suits us too, and those values are instilled into kids at a very early age.


    I'm not defending any form of animal cruelty, and agree that society and its inhabitants need to be protected ... but as a species we're pretty screwed up as the arbiters of right and wrong.

  • Meh, take that argument the opposite way, what if it were a maternity unit or OAP home, would you be more outraged due to them being people? I don't think the fact that animals die elsewhere justifies leniency. I would hope that if these kids have been let off it is cause they are not guilty & not for any bullshit political reason, and if they are not guilty then I hope they are still looking for the perpetrators.