[UK News] Fire in dogs home

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  • The current count is 53 dead & 150 rescued. Apparently it was arson & they have a kid in custody.


    How can someone do this? Sounds like the makings of a future serial killer to me.


    I'm also amazed they have so many animals. When I have rescued in the past I have really struggled to find a place that would allow me to take one, perhaps they need to lower their standards a bit? They look at the family composition, some animals must come from homes with kids? They look at your fences, not all dogs will run away. They look at your employment, 2 dogs at home are often better than one, most people need employment. etc


    Isn't it better to home to a less than perfect place than to have to look after so many or even put some down?

  • This is terrible :-( The kid they have in custody is 14, the same age as my daughter. Whether it was deliberate or a dare that went horribly horribly wrong, its so tragic!

  • Its so sad, my friend is a vet who has been in touch with them, if people wish to donate anything, they are now asking for washing powder, and sponges, cleaning products etc, they are all sorted for blankets and towels, as they were inundated with offers to help. Which is the only good thing to come out of this, the public outpouring of goodwill, i heard last night, that they had raised £86,000, and that was at 12 ish.... I hope they throw the book at that kid, he need serious mental evaluation, setting fire to a kennels, where the dogs cant escape? What happened to the days of the little bastards just setting fire to bins on lamposts???

  • Very sad my friend dropped off bedding and towels kindly given to us from local charity shop and Tesco gave us £50 worth of dog food and I bought some reduced puppy food.

  • We've been to their other branch in Cheshire where the rescued dogs were taken to drop off food, bedding and leads. We lost our dog last week so at least her things will be put to some use rather than sitting in the loft.

  • Friend of mine lives just 13 miles down the road and she was devastated to hear the news. I know I'm supposed to be in training for one of the professions that identifies and helps the perpetrators of acts like this but I am most firmly on the side of the dogs. God know's why he did it? Dare, Pyromaniac, Psycopath any combination of personality disorders or tendencies that would keep a panel of mental health specialists occupied for hours.
    Me, I just think the perpetrator should be played a looped tape of the sounds of terrified barking day and night until it's the only thing he hears when he tries to think.......oh sorry does that make me a monster too. Those poor dogs never hurt anyone.


    I promise to stay very far away from counselling.:D


    oh beggar the pressure cooker:eek:

  • Since when did the point the finger attitude ever help to solve anything? It’s a complete tragedy and my heart breaks for all the suffering the dogs have been through but this is a child we are talking about? Whatever the circumstances surely this lad needs help?

    Daisy’s Mum – What profession are you studying towards? Your attitude concerns me if I’m honest. If you’re working with people (especially offenders) you have to show a certain level of understanding and compassion even if their crimes make you sick to your stomach. A hang ‘em or make them suffer attitude is hardly going to help the lad in question or stop anything like this happening again.

  • I believe there is way too much leniency shown towards offenders nowadays, there is no way that he is unaware of right and wrong, and if you're old enough to commit a crime of this level, and this callousness, then yeah, they should throw the book at him. But there are people out there that think he should be wrapped in cotton wool. At the end of the day, he, at worst, will end up in a young offenders institution, with a ps3, and alot of opportunities that most people wouldn't be able to afford access to, and that's proper out of order. And his excuse, that once, a dog bit him? That warrants setting them on fire???? I think peoples outrage is fully justified.

  • Well, i think when someone does something so heinous, its logical for compassionate people to try and grasp at understanding, and they do say that serial killers tend to start out hurting/ killing small and defenseless animals.... So as most people would assume this lad is seriously unhinged, i suppose that the comparison to a serial killer in the making would be the first assumption of most people. And although it doesn't help the situation to call him such, the comments on this thread are way more compassionate than others i have seen elsewhere, calling for him to be set on fire in return etc. For anyone who loves animals, its a highly emotive situation, and obviously people are going to respond negatively....

  • Is this still a hippy website? Some of you might be better suited to the Daily Mail comments section.


    We don't know anything about the ALLEGED perpetrator yet except what's been reported in the media, most of which is speculation and hearsay. No-one loves dogs more than me, i'm horrified at what's happened, but this is a CHILD we're talking about. An older child, but a child nonetheless. He may have a learning difficulty, he may be having a shite time at home, it might just be a dare or a prank that went wrong. Or something else entirely, we don't know yet and why it happened and we might never know. Some of the comments i've read about him are awful - set him on fire/jail him for life/give him a kicking. What is that going to achieve? A friend said it better than me when she wrote 'I actually feel quite sorry for the lad. If he meant to kill that many animals, he is in serious need of help and is facing a fairly desolate future. If he didn't mean to kill all those animals, not only does he have to live with what he's done, but he also has to live with everyone's reaction to what he's done. At his age I think it's more than likely it was just an act of mindless vandalism with consequences he had never even imagined.' Exactly. Giving him a public flogging isn't going to bring the dead dogs back, but giving him help and support may help stop the same thing happening again.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • I believe there is way too much leniency shown towards offenders nowadays, there is no way that he is unaware of right and wrong, and if you're old enough to commit a crime of this level, and this callousness, then yeah, they should throw the book at him. He, at worst, will end up in a young offenders institution, with a ps3, and alot of opportunities that most people wouldn't be able to afford access to, and that's proper out of order.


    Prison is (or ought to be) a chance for someone to be rehabilitated, not a way to make them suffer. The 'opportunities' someone gets in jail are often ones that they didn't have whilst growing up, and may help them to get their life back on track. Many people who turn to committing crime already felt ostracised from the rest of the community - ostracising them further doesn't achieve anything. What hope has this kid got of a successful future if people are already writing him off?

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • Is this still a hippy website? Some of you might be better suited to the Daily Mail comments section.


    We don't know anything about the ALLEGED perpetrator yet except what's been reported in the media, most of which is speculation and hearsay. No-one loves dogs more than me, i'm horrified at what's happened, but this is a CHILD we're talking about. An older child, but a child nonetheless. He may have a learning difficulty, he may be having a shite time at home, it might just be a dare or a prank that went wrong. Or something else entirely, we don't know yet and why it happened and we might never know. Some of the comments i've read about him are awful - set him on fire/jail him for life/give him a kicking. What is that going to achieve? A friend said it better than me when she wrote 'I actually feel quite sorry for the lad. If he meant to kill that many animals, he is in serious need of help and is facing a fairly desolate future. If he didn't mean to kill all those animals, not only does he have to live with what he's done, but he also has to live with everyone's reaction to what he's done. At his age I think it's more than likely it was just an act of mindless vandalism with consequences he had never even imagined.' Exactly. Giving him a public flogging isn't going to bring the dead dogs back, but giving him help and support may help stop the same thing happening again.


    How would you be reacting if it had been a childrens home or a home for people with learning difficulties. He would be facing a very long time in jail for mass murder. To me this is no different. If it was a prank that had gone wrong then that makes no difference in fact it is worse. If is was a prank then it could well have been humans that have been burned alive with molten plastic dripping on them from the roof.


    I for one hope his name is leaked to the press


    paul

  • Although i don't read the daily mail, i take it that it was meant to be insult. I do think prisons are too lenient, I'm not saying for one minute to lock him in a dungeon and feed him crusts of bread, but i do think that the privileges of games consoles, dvds etc, is out of line. My brother was in prison, and it definitely did not rehabilitate him. He said that he wouldn't be afraid of going back, it's no deterrent, and that life is easier in there than out here. I didn't have a happy childhood, didn't get to go to college until i was an adult, had to pay my way for everything i have now, and there is no way i would use my shitty start in life to justify my mistakes. Everything is a choice, and it just so happens that his choices resulted in the deaths of many animals, and so he needs to realise there are consequences for that. Whether that's a serious jail sentence, time in a secure mental institution, or just the stigma he will have to live with, being an 'older child' is just not enough of an excuse.

  • How would you be reacting if it had been a childrens home or a home for people with learning difficulties. He would be facing a very long time in jail for mass murder. To me this is no different. If it was a prank that had gone wrong then that makes no difference in fact it is worse. If is was a prank then it could well have been humans that have been burned alive with molten plastic dripping on them from the roof.


    I for one hope his name is leaked to the press


    paul


    I wouldn't be feeling any differently at all :S I am no less horrified because it happened to animals rather than people. All life is valuable. Regardless of why he did it he's almost certainly going to end up going to jail. What would you rather happened to him? How would some of the things people have suggested doing to him lessen the chance of this happening again? Is beating the shit out of him going to make him want to behave from now on, or is it going to make him feel more ostracised and resentful than ever? Of course if it was a prank that doesn't make it ok, I never said it did, but this is a child we're talking about. He's either very damaged or very stupid, but he doesn't deserve his life written off because of it. Even if it was an adult who'd done it, i'd say the same thing - people who do things like this need help. Two wrongs don't make a right - lowering ourselves to a level where emotions overtake reason and compassion is completely counter productive.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • My brother was in prison, and it definitely did not rehabilitate him. He said that he wouldn't be afraid of going back, it's no deterrent, and that life is easier in there than out here.


    I also know (lots of, actually) people who've been to prison, and it's not cushy in any way. A games console or a dvd player hardly makes up for a loss of freedom. People who find life 'easier' in prison than on the outside generally have multiple issues (usually mental health or addiction) going on, so like I said, those people need rehabilitation so that they're able to cope in the real world. Someone saying they find prison easier than real life is a sad reflection on how difficult their life must be rather than how easy prison is.


    The kid who (allegedly :p ) did this isn't going to get away with a slap on the wrist, nor did I say he should, but normal, healthy people do not go round setting fire to things for no reason, which means there is an underlying issue here, and if you don't deal with that, nothing is going to be any different when he gets back out of prison.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.


  • I'm also amazed they have so many animals. When I have rescued in the past I have really struggled to find a place that would allow me to take one, perhaps they need to lower their standards a bit? They look at the family composition, some animals must come from homes with kids? They look at your fences, not all dogs will run away. They look at your employment, 2 dogs at home are often better than one, most people need employment. etc


    Isn't it better to home to a less than perfect place than to have to look after so many or even put some down?


    Last time I checked, Manchester Dogs Home is more like a pound than a rescue centre, meaning you turn up, choose a dog, pay your money and take it home and that's that, rather than the centre matching you with a dog and doing homechecks and assessments like many rescue centres do. Unless they've changed their policies in the last year or so, Manchester have very few criteria for rehoming at all, other than that you show them proof of address and that all your family come to view the dog before taking it home. I don't believe they homecheck or have any restrictions on what hours you work. So the large amount of dogs there are most likely because they are 'less adoptable' dogs (old, bull breeds, 'boring' colours) and because of the sheer number that get abandoned, rather than that they make it difficult for people to adopt.


    Off topic a bit so I won't go into it here, but I actually wish places like MDH had a stricter rehoming policy! There is a balance somewhere between having very strict blanket policies and having none at all - the problem with the latter is that because it's so easy to acquire a dog, some people adopt on a whim and mistreat, neglect, abandon or return the animal at a later date.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Twister ().

  • Well, some people do need to untwist their under underwear slightly!
    Basically you don't get a personality disorder for your 18th birthday.
    I don't work with offenders so calm yourself, DaisyDreamer however one of my best friends, who was in the Police force before doing her Masters in Criminal Justice and switching sides did, so thank you for your 'advice' about dealing with offenders, is it based on subjective opinion or actual experience?
    Another thing, this is a forum and I am an animal lover. I am not at work/Uni being asked to comment objectively on a case study or research; I was giving a subjective opinion of what I think should be done based on the fact I am an animal lover who has rescued 2 dogs and 5 cats. Professional people are human beings, between myself and my husband we know six doctors and all of them are very professional people but in private, they are human beings with opinions that they can separate from their practice.
    I still agree with whitepoppy and whilst yes the lad may have a learning disability, etc., what if he doesn't? What then at the moment no one knows anything about him so we dont know if he has a history of fireraising or cruelty.
    In the meantime, I will try to keep my opinions purely objective when posting.


  • Off topic a bit so I won't go into it here, but I actually wish places like MDH had a stricter rehoming policy! There is a balance somewhere between having very strict blanket policies and having none at all - the problem with the latter is that because it's so easy to acquire a dog, some people adopt on a whim and mistreat, neglect, abandon or return the animal at a later date.


    Meant to add to this - since the fire, people have been queuing up outside MDH's sister shelter and online offering to adopt the dogs that survived the fire. Whilst it's lovely that they care and want to help (and i'm not knocking that at all), how many of those people were planning to adopt a dog had the fire not happened? I'm guessing not the vast majority, else there wouldn'tve been so many dogs at the centre in the first place, so presumably a lot of those people are well meaning but acting impulsively because of the emotive situation, rather than making a well researched, thought out commitment. That's what the policies need to be there for.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • yes the lad may have a learning disability, etc., what if he doesn't? What then at the moment no one knows anything about him so we dont know if he has a history of fireraising or cruelty.


    People aren't 'just evil' or 'just cruel' though, something has caused that, their upbringing or traumatic experiences or whatever. If he did have a history of fireraising (as opposed to a prank which went wrong), then thats even more reason to offer help and compassion, because if someone is wandering round setting things on fire, there's something not right with them. The idea that some people are just bad and can't be helped is what keeps offenders reoffending, because they're written off and ostracised rather than embraced and supported.


    I've worked at kennels and rescue centres, I have three dogs of my own plus numerous other animals - I love animals and i'm gutted by what's happened, but I also know a fair bit about 'offenders' and the sort of things that motivate acts like this. It is possible to have compassion for offenders as well as the victims. If more people were a bit more compassionate towards others, the offending rate wouldn't be as high as it is in the first place.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • Twister. I totally agree with everything you have have written. You have perfectly articulated everything that I wanted to say on the subject... thanks for saving me a whole load of brain power (it's been a long day at work).

  • Twister. I totally agree with everything you have have written. You have perfectly articulated everything that I wanted to say on the subject... thanks for saving me a whole load of brain power (it's been a long day at work).


    Haha! You're welcome. Why use a sentence when several paragraphs will do, that's my motto! :D :p

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • How would you be reacting if it had been a childrens home or a home for people with learning difficulties. He would be facing a very long time in jail for mass murder. To me this is no different. If it was a prank that had gone wrong then that makes no difference in fact it is worse. If is was a prank then it could well have been humans that have been burned alive with molten plastic dripping on them from the roof.


    I for one hope his name is leaked to the press


    paul


    Oh my god, I swear half, if not more of what you write on here, apart from being complete bollocks, is said to stir a reaction!


    What would his name being leaked achieve? So people can go om a man hunt? So the rest of his life can be ruined? So his family will also suffer? FFS, get a grip, you obviously have no compassion or understanding for a child is, for some reaaon, quite severely damaged. To be making comments like you do, you must be whiter than white.


    I so wish there was a block button on here so I wouldn't have to read the utter tripe you write! *rant over!*

  • I so wish there was a block button on here so I wouldn't have to read the utter tripe you write! *rant over!*


    There is! Or there's an ignore button which I believe does the same thing, stops you seeing someone's posts.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.

  • But yeah, leaking his name (which judging by social media may have already happened) achieves nothing.


    1. We don't know if it's the right name.


    2. We don't know if he did what he's been accused of yet.


    How many people have been attacked or even killed for (for example) being sex offenders, and then it turns out they weren't at all, they were some innocent person who's life was ruined by rumours and speculation. What if someone names the wrong kid and he gets attacked? How would you know if it was the right name or not? The press have got it wrong before, hell, even the police get it wrong sometimes.


    Even if the right name was leaked and the person in question had done it, what happens then? He gets the shit beaten out of him? His house gets set on fire? His family get attacked? His friends? Vigilante 'justice' never solved anything. How would that make us any better than he is? It's just perpetuating the cycle. The best thing we could do for this or any other kid is give him the help he needs to turn his life around - attacking him wouldn't bring those dogs back but helping him will stop him doing something like this again. 'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'.

    I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap,
    i've been thinking i'm drinking too many drinks all by myself.
    I've been poking a voodoo doll that you do not know I made, for you, of you.


  • Twister, you said it in a much more dignified way than I did, well done. Having worked with damaged children, I fimd Amans mentality very hard to understand and even harder to put up with!

  • Oh my god, I swear half, if not more of what you write on here, apart from being complete bollocks, is said to stir a reaction!


    We all have different opinions. That is what makes this forum such a fantastic place. This forum is what it is because it is not populated by homogeneous common or garden boring people who go along with what the general populace are willing to believe.


    I have strong opinions and I do love a heated debate so I can understand how you may think that I am just trying to elicit a response but but you would be wrong. I am not afraid to stand up for what I believe in but I am also willing to listen to other peoples opinions and I will also admit when I am wrong. I also respect other peoples opinions and even though I may not agree with them I would fight for they're right to hold them but I do not insult people.


    I cannot believe that over 50% of my contribution to this forum has been complete bollocks and just said to stir a reaction but as a senior member of the forum I'm sure you will have done you research.


    Maybe what I said about leaking the little darling's name to the press may have been over the top but this is a very emotive thread and I am absolutely livid about what happened and I believe that the poor little child will probably get away with community service and some counselling. He will probably end up getting compensation for the stress it has caused him.


    I may be opinionated but that is no excuse for rudeness


    paul