UKIP

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UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • I support the EU - I actually support open borders for the whole planet, but the EU is a good starting point.


    Having spent last week driving to Hanover with the only checkpoint being Dover, I can only see this as a good thing.


    I also support the European Convention on Human Rights and the other laws that protect us from our current government.


    I agree, I really don't see the point of borders... the rest of Europe seem to get by with open borders, so why can't we? That's one of my big problems with how we are with the EU, we're not really in it, but not really out of it. We have all the rules made by them (good and bad), but we still have the border restrictions, vetos, opt-outs... almost like we are very half hearted with it.


    I could not, amd will not vote UKIP - given that Europe has been a big positive for me - I can, with few restrictions, move to another country, as I will be doing eventually. On the flip side, should we decide to move here, my GF can move here without issue too. What they're doing is stirring up hatred for other peoples, immigrants and job seekers who are no different to us. Interestingly, would they chuck her out of the country if they got in power?


    Immigration isn't causing the UK to go to the dogs, it is quite capable of doing that by itself.

  • if I ran a business like they run the EU( 18 years without balancing the books) I'd have been put in prison for fraud long ago.

  • I've just read that one of their candidates in Kent has in his manifesto that we should consider compulsory abortion for people who's babies are detected to have Downs Syndrome or other disabilities. Honestly, I have no words. Other than...how the fuck dare he. :curse:

  • if I ran a business like they run the EU( 18 years without balancing the books) I'd have been put in prison for fraud long ago.


    Yes, the EU is just as corrupt as our very own government, and as corrupt as any other government in the world. If they cannot get someone to audit their books for the last 18 years, this just stinks.
    Germany twice tried to rule Europe by force, and neither time succeeded. But they are doing very well so far with the EU.


    Over a hundred years ago there were few if any border controls, and people came and went across Europe quite freely. They didn't need an EU to do that, just peaceful coexistence.


    The EU is aiming for a United States of Europe. The US would love that. It is so much easier to push your big corporate polices to just a few decision makers at the top of a big federation, especially corrupt decision-makers, than it is to tackle each country separately.


    So far as UKIP goes, I'd only vote for them if it meant taking a vote from the Tory unspeakables or the traitorous New Labour party, like in this upcoming European Election. But there will be enormous numbers of working people voting for UKIP at this election, and it won't be because they are racists or fascists. It will be because they want to register a protest vote against those currently in power, and there's no one else to do it with.


  • Exactly what Paul said :D


    I should like to super groove this :-)


  • But lets tell the truth, in our out of the EU the workers will still be exploited so what difference does it make whether the UK stays in or not?
    As for Farage, would you buy a used car from this man? No!

  • You forget that workers were not so exploited back in the 60's and 70's, whether they were workers who came here from abroad, or English workers, or workers in France, or workers in Germany, etc.


    The exploitation of workers started here in the time of Thatcher, and has continued ever since, at an increasing pace. If the EU had stated that any country joining the EU must pay their workers a decent living wage, and that wages and prices must be the same in all countries across the EU, we would not have got such an influx of workers from poorer countries, just trying to better themselves. Because they would have been paid decent wages back in their home countries.


    Instead, seeing that workers' wages in many original member countries were rising to the degree that capitalists could not continue to increase their profits so easily, the EU threw itself open to membership from many inherently poorer countries. This had the effect that workers from those countries looked for work in the richer of the EU countries, which is to be expected. This meant the capitalists could decrease wages, because many of these new workers were willing to work for less.

  • You forget that workers were not so exploited back in the 60's and 70's, whether they were workers who came here from abroad, or English workers, or workers in France, or workers in Germany, etc.


    The exploitation of workers started here in the time of Thatcher, and has continued ever since, at an increasing pace. If the EU had stated that any country joining the EU must pay their workers a decent living wage, and that wages and prices must be the same in all countries across the EU, we would not have got such an influx of workers from poorer countries, just trying to better themselves. Because they would have been paid decent wages back in their home countries.


    Instead, seeing that workers' wages in many original member countries were rising to the degree that capitalists could not continue to increase their profits so easily, the EU threw itself open to membership from many inherently poorer countries. This had the effect that workers from those countries looked for work in the richer of the EU countries, which is to be expected. This meant the capitalists could decrease wages, because many of these new workers were willing to work for less.


    Well I earn more and work less than ever before, I can't be alone in that. I doubt workers were more exploited under Thatcher than they were in the 1830s...1880s or even the 1930s or indeed any other time in British history. By the time Thatcher left office wages in real terms were over 10% than they had been in 1979 and the working week was shorter. Now before anyone jumps on me...no I am no fan of Thatcher.
    I thought people came here because of the better living conditions and wages not because they were willing to work for less. They come over and may start at the bottom and work long hours, but they won't take less than the going rate. The rate of labour never goes down because of immigration but it might if there is an over-abundance of labour.

  • I suspect it might be a different concept of Libertarianism TBH,
    certainly Farage portrays himself as bloke-down-pub-fag/pint
    and less: thug-in-matalan-suit that BNP have converted to.


    Nigel won't get us out of Europe, as he would need the majority vote in Westminster for that, so a future term in conjunction with another party then, by which time he will have grown accustomed to the lovely backhanders on offer and have forgotten all about little England.


    For me Labours out, SDP cant find their arse with both hands so they're out too,
    Tories havent got Boris yet for laughs which leaves .....
    Nigel to keep me amused the next term


  • I think I'd second that!:thumbup:

  • In truth we only make a decision at the ballot box, any amount of evening broadcasts and sound bytes make not a jot of difference when we brandish that biro and make a mark.
    after the honeymoon of a month or two they all get bogged down in the same old same old and forget all the nice things they promised before election day, in Farage's defence I like to remember him this way:


  • "They come over and may start at the bottom and work long hours, but they won't take less than the going rate. The rate of labour never goes down because of immigration but it might if there is an over-abundance of labour."


    Totally wrong, I'm afraid. They take the rate they are offered. The rate they are offered will be less than the native workers were getting as the going rate. It will probably be the minimum wage, or not much more.


    So the native workers have to either take that lower rate when their own contract is renewed, or look elsewhere. I have several friends in the transport industry who have actually been victims of this wage-rate reduction, so don't try to tell me it doesn't happen. It has also happened in any number of other skilled and semi-skilled industries, as other people have informed me.

    You cannot blame the people who come here to work for less money than the going rate, because even the minimum wage is seen by them as a wage to get by on, and still have some left over to send home.
    But that wage is not even enough for anyone living normally in this country to try to buy a flat or house on, or even pay for a rented property. That is why many working people are on benefits - the minimum wage is far too low.

  • An endemic human trait I'm afraid
    just look at your own employer, he has employment for you because he has himself undercut the opposition but thats the nature of capitalization its a drag when it comes back at our level and bites of course.


    On the immigration we've been here before and within living memory,
    when the 'windrush' brought us all those lovely nurses & bus drivers we needed in the 50's because (just like now) we couldn't lower ourselves to perform these tasks so then Jamaicans, now Eastern Europeans,
    but now its working the fens fields for vegetables/washing cars/construction

  • Quote from gary;

    I think that the current electoral system is actually helping UKIP. They are outside parliment so they are not presumed to be corrupt, like the "mainstream" political parties. They can therefore tap into the public mood of distrust of politicians to gain votes. However, if you actually look at the record of their MEPs they are the most incompetent politicians, lining their pockets with expenses, hiring their wives and mistresses in their staff. If they had members of parliment they would soon lose some of their popularity..


    You may have a point there Gary. Currently if any of us felt so inclined as to raise the money to stand as 'hippy' candidates the disillusionment with the main parties is so rife.


    The reason UKIP arent getting quite such a warm welcome in Scotland is things are heating up here for September and most of us who were born here and lived our lives here and don't want to have decisions made for us by some idiot politician who couldnt find Stornoway on a map. We're to bothered about our own independence, sorry to be selfish; but whisky all round if we win and Cameron will annihilate us with as Thatcher did if we loose.

  • You may have a point there Gary. Currently if any of us felt so inclined as to raise the money to stand as 'hippy' candidates the disillusionment with the main parties is so rife.


    How much? Pop it on kickstarter & I'll skip dinner to throw in a couple of quid.

  • I once toyed with the idea of a liberally focused political movement being funded through kickstarter ... unfortunately I don't think humanity is evolved enough for democracy. There are just too many fuckwits out there who shouldn't be allowed near a voting booth.

  • Sadly I think you're right Paul. A friend once proposed a solution to that; give everyone the chance to vote once per year, then give them a selection of things they can vote on, such as their MEP or the next manager of their local football club, hopefully enough fuckwits will chose to vote for other things leaving important issues to those that give a shit. Of course when the votes come in for the European election and they discover no-one voted they may wonder why :)


    Oh I couldn't be a politician, apart from my dislike of people and fear of public speaking, every time someone said the honourable member I'd giggle!

  • I will be voting for the Green Party in the European election, because I agree with almost everything in their policies. But once we get our hippy party up and running I shall be campaigning in the Eastern region!

  • I also support the European Convention on Human Rights and the other laws that protect us from our current government.


    I do too. A recent example being the ban on Neonicotinoids. The UK government were dead against it, but thankfully had to comply.


    The reason UKIP arent getting quite such a warm welcome in Scotland is things are heating up here for September and most of us who were born here and lived our lives here and don't want to have decisions made for us by some idiot politician who couldnt find Stornoway on a map. We're to bothered about our own independence, sorry to be selfish; but whisky all round if we win and Cameron will annihilate us with as Thatcher did if we loose.


    Hey, another Highlander! :waves: Though I'm not quite in the same camp as you, being at the moment mostly anti-independence (and there are actually quite a few of us around - most of the people I know say they won't be voting Yes in the referendum). But don't imagine for a second that because I don't think independence is the right thing for Scotland, that I'm in favour of the current government in any way. I have the same opinion of the Tories as, I suspect, everyone else here (except Ayami, probably). But I don't trust that things will be any better if we become an independent country. The SNP are offering no real answers on anything, and every time a genuine concern is raised it's dismissed as 'scaremongering' (their very favourite word!). But what's touting it about that we're going to get 'punished' by Cameron if we vote No, if not scaremongering?


    Having said that though, I'm delighted that UKIP doesn't have any real popularity in Scotland. I'll be voting in the European elections this month, if only to add numbers to anyone but them.

  • this tickled me, i am anti UKIP, its nice to see people in action, most were returning their election leaflets with a brick which they had to pay postage for



  • A lot of ppl ive heard have said a few years back that they would have voted bnp, if they werent so racist or toned the racism down. Isnt that just what ukips trying to do?


    I found my self saying " god bless the torries" to someone on facebokk the other day. I went to school under milky snatchers government, can remember the poll tax making the poor poorer, comming home from school to see miners fighting to work, and have always been brought up to hate the tory party. But in the last eight month my wages have doubled due to the help to buy scheme for houses they've introduced.


    So i guess im going tory if we dont get freedom first.

  • What you dont think the housing bubble there creating is a good plan then?
    Three years ago ppl were fighting over building jobs, now theres more work than ppl to do it.


    Anyway im in it for the money, turns out the more money you have the easier life is


    If your wages doubled without you having to work any harder you wouldnt complain, would you?

  • If they doubled my state pension without me having to work any harder I wouldn't complain, either!


    In fact, my missus and I were considering ditching our socialist principles and buying the flat we have paid council rent on for years, because the small mortgage would be less than half of what we are paying in rent at the moment. Not that it takes a Tory government to give the right to buy; they were doing that in communist Cuba 50 years ago.

  • The help to buy schemes just generally mean people own less of the house they have bought and are this then more in debt.
    More enslaved than ever and only to do what - yes to help the banks and a notional wave at the economy. The loans are secured on a percentage equity at a time when one hand advises lack of debt the other is dolling out not help to buy just help to get into debt.

  • Quote

    Anyway im in it for the money, turns out the more money you have the easier life is


    if u live simply then all u need is the basics covered, been that way in a job i had for last 10 years worked part-time and didnt want or need anymore than that, i know ppl will probably find that hard to believe but i never have been interested in money or house buying. i would agree with social house building to make some building jobs and give ppl a home, or relaxing planning regs to allow ppl to live on the land in a simple way. when i was working if my wages had doubled tbh i would have just halved my hours.


    i used to work with older ppl supporting them to maintain their independence in their communities etc, during conversations they never spoke about the job that they shouldve had, the overtime they wished they had done, or the bigger house or better car, they always spoke about spending more time with ppl, friends and family, the regrets were about the love that got away, things like that.


    work to live, dont live to work

  • Thats easy to say when you dont have two rents to pay, due to circumstances i pay my own rent in aberdeen. The second most expensive city in britian to live in.
    I also pay as much of my ex's rent and bills as i can, so my sqon has a roof over his head and can have things that children need, ie food clothes toys ect


    I personally dont really care about money, but my landlord does so does the shops when i want food so i have no choice


    The more i earn the better i can provide for my son its as simple as that im afraid,