Nomadic living and survival

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  • yeah offgridkid, that is a major major issue within mankind and it seriously needs to be looked at and assessed by the majority of civilians! There was a research paper done a few years back about 6 to 14 year old kids and what they think, know and assume to go into there usual food and it surprised the hell out of everyone that 60% of the children didn't have a clue ever when it came to chicken burgers with.. the name being in the name! haha
    Me myself being vegan always ends up with a very long heated debate usually with meat eaters, hunters and also vegans as I am anti-hunting when it comes to sport, but not so anti-hunting when it comes to people being self sufficient! I used to go fishing as a child with my dad and he used to go shooting for small game and we raised our own chickens for meat, eggs, had a large self sustained allotment for veg so I have always been understanding from one side. but when it does come to it I am pretty big on animal rights and anti hunting campaigns but not necessarily all hunting due to my side of the love for self sufficiency! Now this is where I differ from most vegans on the fact that i don't eat meat, i have all of these views and I do think that me myself for my preferences can get everything i need from a meatless and dairyless diet! this is normaly the start of heated debates between hunters and vegans and me being sort of stuck inbetween against both sides! But i like to see myself as understanding and not shoving my views down peoples throats but giving a well varied and honest opinion debate and discussion on the topic! I mean why argue and fight when you can learn from one another, You might not convert someones beliefs nor they're beliefs fall into action upon yourself but at least you can learn from each other!


    But yeah, the denial and contradictions within eating habbits and prefernces mainly within the meat eating and dairy consuming side of civilians is very much hidden by packaged bloodless procucts as you stated! they can't do it themselves and will happily slate others who go out of there way to do these things themselves when they pay for it to be practically done and covered up for them!
    that is one major problem indeed!


    hopefully this comment won't be misjudged as i know there are a lot of vegans/veggies/meat eaters and others on these forums and people will.. understand or at least try to understand my reasonings for these views!

  • and yeah roadkill, no problem guys. i was freegan for a year (vegan but happily eating meat,fish and dairy which is going to be sent to landfill or found already dead)(goes along with skipping/dumpster diving)
    pretty much cleaner too when it comes to hunting

  • good on ya cuckoo, its not easy but so worthwhile going back to basics! cant beat staring into the flames of a camp or stove fire, its so rewarding.

    Create Your Own Minority Cultures As The Majority Are Merely Sheep Meat For The Vultures!

  • Cheerful thread, this one! Does bring me back to the necessity of prioritising, ie: what do we expect from this nomadic lifestyle and how are we achieving it or otherwise - distractions come thick and fast. A gig by a 60's psychedelic folk rock pioneer and his wife has to be missed cos the admission price would buy approximately 11/2 gallons of diesel. Keep on truckin.... That's our priority. To where we want to go, to wake up in nice places. As I wake up each morning I have to remember where I am parked up, and that's how I like it. Don't lose the faith friends.

  • exactly, things are taken for granted far too much these days, we waste food, buy into pointless things, we don't even think to judge what water, electric or gas we use as we have it it on tap or at a flick of a switch, if we go over, we just get more in debt. where as in vehicle living, you have to be calculative over what you use and if you really need to switch it on as if you miss judge it you can get stuck in one place, run out of fuel, not be able to get to your next job or to little things like not having any light at night due to wasting it during the day when there's natural light. which is why i think any van dweller would take upon board any disasters as we are pretty much prepared on the scale of things even if we don't think we are because we have to be to get through day to day life.

  • I doubt there really is any big disaster on the horizon, here are plenty of alternative ways to feed and power the worlds population, we just use the cheapest ways, once they run out there will be new tech to replace them. Most of Britains problems will be down to the government caving in and stopping building nuclear power stations to keep the miners and the greens happy, meaning we now have to buy in power and rely on other countries.

  • totally rspect your views on meat 4dscumpunx, you have obviously analysed and experienced it from all sides and now do what you feel is right. Here's my view on the subject, we need vegans,veggies,carnivors omnivors and whatever else to keep a balance on the planet. If you look at nature and the animal kingdom everything has it's place on the eco chain, predators are there for a reason, prey is there for a reason, nature is cruel,animals eat other animals, if everyone turned vegan or veggie imagine the strain on the ecosystem with the huge demand on those dietary products not to mention the huge surplus of animals, what would happen then would we start making viruses to cull animals like miximutosis just to keep the populations under control. should animals have rights, yes i think so to a degree but remember that we are animals too and have nutritional needs and a vegan or vegie diet doesnt suit everyone. What i dont agree with is the commercial farming of animals and breeding them for capital gain, things should be done properly they should be treated fairly not treated like conveyer belt commercial fodder. An animal in the wild has a fighting chance, his speed,wits agility,senses, just like a fish has a good chance in the ocean or river, but when they are kept in captivity or caught in huge nets, dumbed down robbed of their basic instincts and made to live an unnatural life of misery before being inevitabley slaughtered, then thats just plain out of order!I have tried cutting down on meat and i definately dont eat as much as i used to, i tried replacing meat in my meals with pulses like chickpeas,black beans which proved to give me alot of stomach aches due to the gas they produce and i did drop around half a stone in weight which i didnt want. For me i need a balance of both but ive realise meat doesnt have to be on the menu every day for sure. I would never hunt for fun or sport thats just sick, i get no pleasure out of shooting an animal, i like to see them living in the wild, I have never understood fisherman who catch fish take a photo then throw the fish back in, that's just tampering with nature for no good reason in my opinion. Like i said before humans are animals too that's one of the problems with the type of thing we are discussing, i think the majority of humans have this illusion of seperation between us and nature which has been created by capitalism money and so called civilisation, i dare say most humans wouldnt even consider themselves as animals....until they were put under some kind of dietary and economic pressure. I think we ought to take a leaf out of the book of Tribe ideology, take what you need for food clothing and shelter and nothing more, those American Indians, Aboriginee etc had it bang on, the ultimate conservationists of mother earth, but of course they didnt have millions of mouths to feed, maybe we need to be culled never mind rabbits and badgers!

    Create Your Own Minority Cultures As The Majority Are Merely Sheep Meat For The Vultures!

    The post was edited 2 times, last by OffGridKid ().

  • you never know whats around the corner Popuptoaster, just like those poor souls in the Phillipine Islands.

    Create Your Own Minority Cultures As The Majority Are Merely Sheep Meat For The Vultures!

  • great points and opinions their, i do totally agree with you.
    as for animals and surplus animals roaming around if everyone did go vegan or veggie I think one thing to remember is the only reason we have all of these animals is because we produce and force produce them. I'm not saying it'd ever happen having millions turn vegan or veggie, it doesn't suit everyone and like you said you tried but ended up with stomach ache and yes the surplus of animals left if everyone did turn would be massive. But we don't respect the animals anymore nor do the normal person even relate that piece of prepackaged meat to the animal that it came for so we have lost the thanks for the animal, the skill that it takes to gain the animal and then to top it all off we waste everything else from it that we don't see fit for use! This is one major reason that i am vegan apart from my other reasons, the fact that there isn't any tradition within us anymore when it comes to eating meat or fish. we've lost all of our traditions we waste and don't use everything and we think we need to kill kill kill rather than kill and take what we need only. I mean going back to ww1.. chickens were around for one reason only eggs, if yo had chicken for tea i heard it would of been for tea on christmas day and the family would have to be extremely well off to have that luxury as why eat something that produces more food. but now we have plenty of them, and we have chicken everyday all day long like it's going out of fashion. you are right though its conveyor belt hell, nothing is seen as a life within the meat industry sadly and that's the problem. we don't have any acceptance and thanks anymore because we've gone too far. I mean look at all of the baby male chicks that get crushed daily just because there life is deemed worthless. that's my problem and why i went vegan it's.. sickening but sadly we can't change it, so i've just gone against.
    I think if we we're to have to hunt for food, if we we're still in the time of foraging or in a time when mass production of meat was not a thing anymore i wouldn't have the same opinion. though after being a vegan for this amount of time i would find it very hard, but if it was a so called disaster and i had to survive then obviously i'd have to.


    popup, I think we are far from disasters yes, natural at that. I think we are prone to major flooding still and some very very harsh winters to come such as this winter supposedly going to be the worst in records (so they say, again)
    But electricity going down, power cuts, economic crisis and the fall of our currency is all very real i think. we've scraped by with things like that in the past on a very fine line. everything is computers these days, so it's easy for malfunctions, hackers and whatever to do some major damage to electrical grids and currency is a man made thing, it only exists because we are told it does. it only takes an uprising to declare it useless and it only takes bad judgement, lending and greed to make it turn worthless. most of man made creations end up in pieces and they all generally fail and break one day. it's just the matter of rebuilding or re-buying another one when it does

  • Dont worry about the computers going down, I used to work in IT and there's a lot of scaremongering goes on about hackers being ableto bring the system down, it MIGHT be possible to disable some parts of the UK for a short time same as with power outages it would be very difficult to get the power off country wide for a significant amount of time unless we suddenly went to war with Europe and they cut off the gas pipes.


    Again we can generate enough for emergency and essential services for a couple of weeks on stored coal and oil so while there may be panic buying and some areas may suffer from looting or increased crime it should only be temporary, i'm not saying an apocalypse isn't possible, just that its not very likely and would require quite a lot of things to go wrong all at once many of which would effect those in trucks and buses just as much as those who are not.


    If you truely do want to prep for the worst the best thing you can do is leave and head for somewhere that is already off grid, like parts of Oz, Russia or Alaska for instance, you'll be living the correct way to survive already if your out in the backwoods of those countries, and if that idea does not appeal to you then you probably will never be ready for the "End times" anyway.

  • 90% of mans short lived time on this planet has been lived without the use of money so it's an dellusion to think we cant live without it. I seriously think capitalism doesnt work any more, far too many people on the planet now than a couple of hundred years ago when people like john lock and adam smith divised their philosophies and gave us our current social working model of industrialised divisions of labour. Time for a new paradigm, capitalism only works if there is a job for everyone and thats just a fantasy now. People are waking up and realising that their lives will never be fulfulled by holding all value in material wealth as western society projects.
    Anyone read Mark Boyles book The Monesyles Man?

    Create Your Own Minority Cultures As The Majority Are Merely Sheep Meat For The Vultures!

  • Quote

    90% of mans short lived time on this planet has been lived without the use of money so it's an dellusion to think we cant live without it.


    i'm not sure as i agree with this....to start with coins have been about since 600-650 years bc.. and before that desirable objects maybe 100,000 years ago were "bartered'.. money is just an easy way to accumulate wealth without the need to actually keep things of value..ie. 1,000 cattle = a big lump of gold. gold itself it pretty much useless but it is highly desirable so you could swap/barter a big lump of it for 1,000 cattle ( which are highly useful cus you can eat them and then not die through starvation )


    so in order to get rid of 'money' you will have to get rid of man's desire to accumulate wealth ie. " greed " this IMOI is not going to happen


    just my two pennies worth:insane:

  • Again we can generate enough for emergency and essential services for a couple of weeks on stored coal and oil so while there may be panic buying and some areas may suffer from looting or increased crime it should only be temporary,


    And it's the temporary time I think we should be prepared for.


    We've seen how looting behaviours can just escalate, 'he's doing it, so I'll join in' attitude....and when that storm hit a couple weeks ago and people were without power for a day, some people honestly were not prepared or didn't know what to do!! ( which I cant fathom tbh)........people panic! And I don't want to be near any of them when that's happening. (well there's a few I look out for obviously, I aint that cold hearted lol)

  • Post by OffGridKid ().

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  • i'm not sure as i agree with this....to start with coins have been about since 600-650 years bc.. and before that desirable objects maybe 100,000 years ago were "bartered'.. money is just an easy way to accumulate wealth without the need to actually keep things of value..ie. 1,000 cattle = a big lump of gold. gold itself it pretty much useless but it is highly desirable so you could swap/barter a big lump of it for 1,000 cattle ( which are highly useful cus you can eat them and then not die through starvation )


    so in order to get rid of 'money' you will have to get rid of man's desire to accumulate wealth ie. " greed " this IMOI is not going to happen


    just my two pennies worth:insane:


    well i only mentioned money not barter and 600-650bc, if thats when money did actually start, is not even 10% of our time on the planet depending on where you draw the line to define a human, on the grand scale of things its a milisecond.
    I do agree with what you said about desire, while ever the desire is there to attain material things then money willl always be around but i do think we wil evolve past that state and eventually change our perception of value and start putting it into totally different things like community, altruism,nature,and maybe even a totally new paradigm which nobody has even contemplayed yet, the effects and feelings of elation that money creates are ephemeral and a bit like the effect of an ecstacy tablet, when you're on one you have this ultimate sensation of empathy and happiness and when it wears off you see it for what it is, synthetic fakery! to think that this system that we have at the moment with money will never change just defies logical progression, everything evolves physically spiritually and mentally so it figures that laws and systems will evolve too.


    By the way i think bringing back barter would be a huge step in the right directon, at least it would reconnect people with each other again and re- establish community which we have totally lost in this country anyway.

    Create Your Own Minority Cultures As The Majority Are Merely Sheep Meat For The Vultures!

  • Wake up in the morning, do what needs doing to get through the day, enjoy yourself, plan a little ahead is what I do every day whilst surviving living in my bus. Every day is different so just get out there and do it.

  • i do think we wil evolve past that state and eventually change our perception of value and start putting it into totally different things like community, altruism,nature,and maybe even a totally new paradigm which nobody has even contemplayed yet,


    I wish I could share in your optimism!

  • 90% of mans short lived time on this planet has been lived without the use of money so it's an dellusion to think we cant live without it. I seriously think capitalism doesnt work any more, far too many people on the planet now than a couple of hundred years ago when people like john lock and adam smith divised their philosophies and gave us our current social working model of industrialised divisions of labour. Time for a new paradigm, capitalism only works if there is a job for everyone and thats just a fantasy now. People are waking up and realising that their lives will never be fulfulled by holding all value in material wealth as western society projects.
    Anyone read Mark Boyles book The Monesyles Man?


    I completely agree, we're to channeled in that we need this that and the other. The best way we could go about living these days is by minimizing everything.
    Think about it like this, imagine if the working hours of a week was 24 hours. that means that every job is split in the day via two people.. more people in work, more time for everyone to educate and live a simpler easier life, more time with your children and to do more productive things and hobbies, there would be less stress, less depression as we would be able to lower living costs, bills and prices.
    but, there's no gain for the greedy and we are merely here to be enslaved in society and told that it's right to buy buy buy, think that every deal we see in the supermarkets we must get as it's good value, when in reality it's false economy and just all a ploy to drain you of money. then they introduce ridiculous taxes, higher prices but keep wages the same to have you worried scared and in 'need' of government as the only way government and big corporations have power is having the people think that they need them!


    it's backwards and I personally think we've come too far for a change that is good, thinking the only change we'll have will be bad, and yeah a lot of people may die, starve, the whole country may even go into poverty but good will come of it because it'll be shedding the idiot ideas and structures that we have in place today!
    yeah we need some form of structure within our lives we have always had it, we have always depended upon it as people but this current one, our current attitude towards what we have is appalling!

  • And it's the temporary time I think we should be prepared for.


    We've seen how looting behaviours can just escalate, 'he's doing it, so I'll join in' attitude....and when that storm hit a couple weeks ago and people were without power for a day, some people honestly were not prepared or didn't know what to do!! ( which I cant fathom tbh)........people panic! And I don't want to be near any of them when that's happening. (well there's a few I look out for obviously, I aint that cold hearted lol)


    i agree with that, the attitude of he's doing is so i will is high upon anyone and can get too anyone fast.
    as for when the power went out down south, it's true, electric going out for one day as we know now that that's how long it happened and lasted for, now, take a small town of people, emergency services providing help for people that are hurt, theres no internet, tv, radio etc etc and the lights don't turn on, it gets to tea time, the freezer has defrosted the fridge is getting warm, food is perishing.. know one knows how long it will last so panic sets in, yeah people will initially think 'oh they'll be sorting it out now and it'll be fine now' but as hours go by, especially the length of a day with some people having no needs to cook or contact people, that's when people will start to get panicky, start to loot, fear for what will happen. because we are so reliant on electric, on other people providing for us.. we are pretty much the least sufficient people around no matter how you look at it we rely on someone else to do things for us, electric provided by others if it goes down it's fixed by others, water is provided by others, we get a leak, the majority will call a plumber, we get a flat tire on the car, some people call out the aa because they have no idea in what to do. theres no gas/electric, shit.. how do we cook for the kids, can you light a fire, do you know whats good to burn...
    this is the problem and sadly it's because we're educated in the way of aiming for one goal in life and being reliant on others to do the rest for us.. which is back to government, business and the rich and powerful.. the only reason they are there is because they make a system where we are reliant on them.

  • and yeah bartering needs to be reintroduced, i met a lovely lady in macclesfield when i lived there for a few years who has a huge friend and extended friend group in which they all barter and skill share, no money is ever exchanged and that's how she lives her life she was saying she has dentists, gardeners, farmers, mechanics and everything else within her circle of friends and there friends and she has a job working 2 days a week to keep a small section of money on the things that can't be bartered with or shared such as certain foods and petrol

  • Bartering is only good when people all have different things to barter with - it falls down when you have the same stuff. An example may be:


    1. I have eggs to barter with
    2. You have eggs and cheese
    3. They have cheese and meats


    'They' will take my eggs in exchange for meat, but they wont take your cheese, they already have some. 'They' also now have my eggs, so they don't want your eggs either!


    You wont take my eggs for your cheese - as you already have eggs!


    A bill of exchange (IOU or MONEY) is simply a redeemable instrument that can be used at a later date. Money is not a bad thing, fiat currency is not a good thing.


    Box. (of eggs)

  • I saw this posted on another thread recently


    "Buy local rather than from global-corporate whenever feasible. Crave less, need less, want less, resist the brainwashing of 24/7 marketing. Learn to become a person who does not need corporate-status signifiers for a sense of identity."


    I believe this to be great advice for survival - espescially "buy local rather than global-corporate whenever feasible"


    I have personally been doing this years and built up good relationships with my local shop-keepers, they value my custom and look after me (because I look after them!)


    I know who will look after me with a few "provisions" should I need them in the future, and it wont be Mr J Sainsbury's!!!

  • Have been looking into Agorism as a way of life recently but ,although it has it's pitfalls, would be quite workable if (it was already in place) a situation like this ever arose.
    Unless ,of course, it's the BIG one in which i would advise finding the nearest high ground and getting it over and done with as soon as poss.

  • I think that if the poo really hit the fan then the ensuing chaos would probably start and finish on the UK road network! the idea of being mobile and able to escape society should it all go wrong perhaps is more applicable at the moment in the climate of today.
    I think people are rushing round, consuming, trying to conform, working hard to stand still so using a van to escape and live outside society is a good option.
    If a crisis were to happen, then joe public would rush to jump in their vehicles and head to the fuel pumps and then clog up the roads. Now this is where the intelligent Van Living hippy (or you and i and the ukh followers) cleverly step back from the herd, park up our vehicles and practice living of the land in our immediate areas....
    Once again, by doing precisely the opposite of the general public, our sustainable culture will allow us to exist and thrive.


    well said i think in the same lines in the uk there wil be nowhare to go we would have to make a comunity with the people we have around us now.

  • Notice how 'Fashionable' the long learnt skills of yesteryear are now? Plenty of room for folk to make a fair penny (fleece em) from those time limited workaholics.... Make some really useful stuff out of wood or fabric or bits of old metal and in the right location they'll be tripping up to buy original handcrafted homemade items....wood fests, craft fairs, festivals farmers markets.
    Youve been making it and living like this for ages anyway, your chances are here now

  • Certainly has changed with handmade traditional items becoming more desirable.
    I've been looking into working with willow weaving for a while now. I was just about to start making Christmas wreaths to sell over the next month to earn me some cash but I've managed to get full time work for the next three months so I've took the opportunity to save a lot of money for next year.
    It has sadly been taken over by larger business and companies now though and made cheaper so the traditional worker who has been doing certain jobs for years is earning less due to popularity.
    The only thing with 'in' things is that they bump prices up or down and work for or against traditional workers and self employed people