benefits

  • there seem to be so many anti benefits slogans/rants on facebook atm and it's starting to really bother me.. :(


    do people have NO IDEA what it is like to live in poverty??? so much so that they actively WISH that poverty to be worse for people - people they don't know, don't know the circumstances of? how can people be so unpleasant? i don't understand at all WHY people are so nasty about it.
    where does this crap come from that living on benefits is some wonderful thing?? i get it must be crap if you're working long hours in a job you hate and then when you see a % of your money disappear every payday you're going to be annoyed, that is natural. but why turn on people on benefits EVERY TIME?????????


    i think because we are on benefits and really fucking struggling - to the extent at the moment that without HS vouchers we'd be going hungry this week, that when i see the lack of empathy, the fact that there are plenty of people out there who aren't inherently nasty who would quite happily rip them up and leave us without anything, it makes me want to cry.
    what did we do to deserve such a vendetta? how do they know we're scrounging scum who have never worked a day in our lives? why assume things about people you don't know???? my partner can't find work because he is OVER QUALIFIED. because the govt is making cuts to protect their precious taxes, so jobs get cut. we can't win can we. then the worse comments are the ones about you shouldn't have had a baby then if you can't afford it. wht if you lost your job when pregnant? should you be forced to abort? is it best to smother the baby when it's born rather than ask for the meagre help that you get????? WTF PEOPLE. get a sense of fucking perspective.
    :(

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • I know, it's awful! They expect you to live off so little, it makes me so fucking angry! And the comments people make about my family being on benefits make me so angry, when they try their best to be independent it's still not enough.


    I've just found out I can't claim a penny off benefits because aparently £200 a week is enough to pay all bills AND eat AND pay travel expenses for Jamie to go to work. How is this when our rent & council tax costs over £110 a week? Jamie has to put £40 in the car every week for work.


    Don't pay attention to any of that shit, they're just ignorant because everything has been placed on a silver plate off mommy and daddy!!! Those people don't know what it's like to pay bills and struggle to find money to feed yourself!!!


    I keep telling myself its got to get better, and you've got to stay positive :hug:

  • my partner can't find work because he is OVER QUALIFIED.

    I guess comments like this don't help. I can understand being too ill/disabled to find suitable work, even too thick to do most jobs. My mate was a building site manager. Until the recession all was well. He took a job cleaning toilets out in schools for minimum wage. He cleaned them at one school in the mornings and could be sent to another school, somewhere else in the afternoon. He became really ill a year ago and had to stop work altogether. He gets no financial help from the gov as his wife is a school teacher. Another mate will do anything to screw the gov for money. He sees it as a job and complains that they make it hard for him. He constantly has to jump through hoops, bullshit highly qualified professionals about how sick/ill he is. So there are obviously two extreme view points for the public to judge from.

  • are you saying that my comment there means people being unpleasant is deserved, because they think he could just take a job cleaning toilets??
    because he applies for crap jobs as well as his 'ideal' ones but they prefer younger less experienced people. presumably because they can pay them less.

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • A large part of the issue is unrealistic rent. If you add a family-house rent of £700+ monthly round here, to in your pocket benefits, it *does* sound like people are raking it in.


    I can sustain my home, if I work and get tax credits. Without tax credits, I'm stuffed. But I also manage to pay for my daughter's music lessons and just about keep a car on the road. If I had a partner who had their own demands from the household budget, I'm sure the lessons wouldn't be possible.


    What really peeves me is the well-off self employed who claim back their cars, fuel and a heck of a lot more on their tax returns. But they aren't scroungers huh?

  • I agree, rent is absolutely awful! We pay £400 a month for our 1 bed flat, and we're now screwed because I am off sick from my job. If we didn't have such high living costs, we'd probably be able to get by while we figure something out.


    It's the biggest, most awful bill of them all! The fact that most private renters have to put up with poor damp conditions and being ripped off left right and centre from their landlords, too!

  • are you saying that my comment there means people being unpleasant is deserved, because they think he could just take a job cleaning toilets??
    because he applies for crap jobs as well as his 'ideal' ones but they prefer younger less experienced people. presumably because they can pay them less.


    They want the person they can give the less wage to, a person who is not going to stand up for their rights, etc. It is bullshit!

  • There is such hate isn't there? It's mad, every time you read the comments below on some news article it's just general hate towards people on benefits.....in a reccession??? I think thats fucking crazy!


    And how many of them stop to think about what they are claiming? Alot of people rely on childs tax credits, thats a benefit surely?


    Some people seem to think their lives are never gonna change, never hit some snag, never go wrong - it happens!


    And then the people actually working in the benefits office with their total god complex :curse: they annoy me more than others, the so-called security guards that make you feel like scum.


    I know exactly where you are coming from, it's the latest group of people you can hate freely.

  • I think a lot of this comes from the fact that benefit claimants are seen as an easy target. And yes there are people who play the system and take the piss, however the statistics do not back up the crap spouted by the anti-benefit brigade.


    The whole economy is teetering on the edge as a whole, to get us out of this mess there needs to be somebody in power who has the balls to do something radical to get the economy moving again.


    About the self-employed claiming back taxes, given the state of the economy, there are a lot of small businesses that are really really struggling at the moment that are finding it hard to just keep going from one month to the next. Given the demise of Jessops, HMV, Woolworths, even some big businesses are not immune. Being able to claim enough money back to have enough cash to keep the business going for another month without needing to close up and add their workforce to the jobless numbers is a bonus. And to say that they are wealthy and claiming them back is just like saying all benefit claimants are lazy layabout scroungers.

  • I wasn't clear Matt. I mean the self-employed who put their holiday and other personal expenses through their business accounts

  • A lot of the bad feeling stems from the fact that plenty, (like me) know a freind or accuaintance that claims to be ill, gets enough money to run a car and a motorbike, and gets a free two bedroom house, while someones son struggles with his family ina shitty little flat, working all the hours he can to buy furniture to keep the place livable.


    I agree with paying taxes,, they are to help people worse off than me and in need,, but sometimes you have to say enough is enough and start to look at who really is in need.


    I reckon it had to come, just a pity that genuine folk will bear the brunt of the interogations that follow

  • people one benefits are individual people and equally human, so i don't see why people clump them together because they know one person who takes the piss. it reminds me of an american lady on fb i saw who said she hated all meixcans because they were nasty and she knew this because one had been horrible to her sister :/


    But personally, even though there are undoubtedly people who abuse the system, I would far rather we err on the side of giving people who don't 'deserve' help help, than not giving it to those who do need it. Bbut it seems many people would rather not take the risk. Hang them just in case they committed the crime :/

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • The daily rags print the crap, and the readers spout the crap, ignore them would be my advice, but the spin doctors have them all whipped up to give the benefit claimant a hard time. I want them to print how the man in his posh house with his 5 holidays abroad each year, only pays the same income tax on his earnings as the part time cleaner at the local baths........... Or the man who owns 50 houses and makes a fortune profit on rent, is the worst slum landlord and pays no tax on any of his profits, when will they turn the tide??

  • Well said bluekez....unfortunately I think we're in for a long wait for that to happen. Oh for sure once in a while they'll highlight someone who does these things, but you can bet it's someone who's upset the paper/t.v./radio/website owner in one way or another.Not a concerted attack on these people as a whole.

  • That is what stinks, then they have that crap on BBC in the morning, that my mum watches then rants, iApparently, if you'r an African refugee then you will abuse your position if working, or spend your whole life ripping off the country that you have moved to.......... apparently no one ever gets on the tv for tax avoidance in the middle classes, and definitely no one from the upper classes, who are much more advanced than us, and even have individual named tax avoidance schemes to choose from. BBC and the government seem to be in a proper love fest at the moment, along with most of the daily rags. I must admit to not watching the programmes or reading the papers, so I could be wrong.

  • I was just going to say that the BBC seem to be particularly bad for it at the moment. I watched some of the Andrew Marr show the other morning (I know, but it was just on!). Just about everything they covered had someone or other lumping blame on benefits claimants. And the breakfast news is almost as bad (which I watch for the weather!). I heard all the usual crap - how can people who claim to be impoverished afford a big flat screen TV? etc. etc. And I'm wondering how anyone can look at the miserable amount of money people on benefits are expected to live on, and think that it's anywhere near enough to fund the extravagant lifestyles they seem to think all claimants enjoy.


    They commented that in general public opinions are becoming 'harder' towards people on benefits (apart from those on, pfft, the Left :rolleyes:). With such a torrent of negativity constantly being directed towards the benefits system, people just seem to lose the ability to think for themselves and form their own opinions. I find it quite scary.

  • Quite scary beachcomber ?.........No , it's worse than that. A lot of people who are fortunate enough to have a well paid job just don't seem able to see what is going on. I used to work as a conductor on the trains before my health problems, some of the ones still on the railways I've kept in contact with just don't see what is happening and believe all the stuff they are told by the media. Even when I had a part -time job last year and was explaining to them I was worse off financially doing it they still couldn't get it into their heads that the system is not what the media says. I get a small pension, just over £200 each 4 weeks from the railway....this money is taken off any benefits I get , Now I've been told by atos I don't qualify for e.s.a any more I've got to re-apply for j.s.a,,,,,,,,,,,it's a complete farce..........I'm 54,diabetic, lost a toe, got onset arthritis in both hips and a history of depression.........firms are going to line up to employ someone like me, I do two voluntary jobs for charities.......just leave me alone on benefits and let me do some good...........same as a lot of other people in my situation. Rant over.........................

  • It seems like classic divide and conquer - let the proles get bombarded with propaganda about how these benefit claimants are all scammers, meanwhile the politicians and other scum are ripping the country off, creaming it, taking as much as they can (legally or not) get away with and will continue to do so.:curse:

  • It's a multi-faceted situation. I find the current war on benefits distasteful and immoral in the extreme, and yet... as a society, we've become dependent on an unsustainably generous welfare state. What we actually need is a rational, compassionate and fair reappraisal of the benefits system and how it works. I'd prefer to see this taken out of the hands of politicians and done independently.

  • It's a multi-faceted situation. I find the current war on benefits distasteful and immoral in the extreme, and yet... as a society, we've become dependent on an unsustainably generous welfare state. What we actually need is a rational, compassionate and fair reappraisal of the benefits system and how it works. I'd prefer to see this taken out of the hands of politicians and done independently.


    Ditto. (Oh dear, agreeing with Stu again...:eek: :D )
    There was a detailed paper produced by NEF (New Economics Foundation) a few years ago on the subject of a basic income for all citizens that had been worked out in detail, it gives everyone a basic income, when earnings reach 6 figure sums they get taxed heavily, people with additional needs for carers, modified transport etc all get taken in to consideration, but the sums don't go up if you just keep breeding...

  • Ditto. (Oh dear, agreeing with Stu again...:eek: :D )
    There was a detailed paper produced by NEF (New Economics Foundation) a few years ago on the subject of a basic income for all citizens that had been worked out in detail, it gives everyone a basic income, when earnings reach 6 figure sums they get taxed heavily, people with additional needs for carers, modified transport etc all get taken in to consideration

    Yeah, the Green Party proposed something similar decades ago. I like the idea, but there are problems with it. Once you have a basic income, prices potentially rise to take this into account... and then you're into an inflationary spiral. Additionally, high taxation will inevitably push high earners out of the country. I think the danger of that has been over-stated in the past, but in today's highly global and mobile economy, I think it could indeed be catastrophic. But y'know, the whole system's fucked, and it's hard to see any answers that aren't global in nature. :shrug:

  • It's a multi-faceted situation.


    You make it sound like there's a bright side somewhere Stu - I was working 4 part time jobs last summer/autumn, just to make a substantial part time one.


    One by one they dried up and the last one went a fortnight ago. More seasonal stuff soon, but my landlord gave me notice to quit yesterday and the hope of finding a new place if I have to sign on again . . .



  • You make it sound like there's a bright side somewhere Stu

    Quite the opposite. The Tory attitude to benefits is shit, but there's also the minor point that the benefits system is fucked and disincentivises work. But then work is poorly paid and mostly part time, which disincentivises work. But then we're competing with emerging economies, so we can't expect to return to a 1950s wage model. In short, we're fucked :D

  • The benefits system does need cleaning up, fair enough, but the problem is that the huge majority of people who end up depending on them really don't want to, they want a proper job. The "scroungers" have worked out how to play the system and that needs dealing with, but the fact remains that JSA accounts for a tiny fraction of the benefits bill. Housing counts for far more, and that needs something doing about housing, as in building houses for people to live in rather than as a vehicle for the fucking financial services industry. The biggest one of the lot is pensions. Well pensions aren't a benefit, the money has been oaid in well in advance and the people paying in have a simple right to expect a return on their investment. Fix housing, fix manufacturing, get the financial sector paying tax, and let the millionaire bankers fuck of if they want to, where the fuck do you expect them to go? Banks come to britain because they can get away with shit that no-one else would allow and bail them out if they fail. Anywhere else would charge far higher interest rates and wouldn't have the educated workforce that we do, its a hollow threat and the bluff should be called. And they can take Osborne with them. Rant over, as you were...

  • Housing counts for far more, and that needs something doing about housing, as in building houses for people to live in rather than as a vehicle for the fucking financial services industry.


    This is something that gets me, it is also a problem that was directly caused by Tory policy when they were last in Government. Although the Labour government could have built more houses to replace the social housing deficit caused by this, but now there is a shortage of social housing, so the waiting list have become incredibly long. The alternative if you are a first time buyer and priced out of the market is to rent. More people wanting to rent means that landlords can charge higher rent and therefore the housing benefit bill goes through the roof.


    Putting a cap on housing benefit is going to make a lot of people, particularly in London, homeless.

  • rent control.
    it's the only fair answer. landlords are only allowed to charge genuine mortgage levels of rent on a property plus a small reasonable charge for maintenance or some such similar system.
    why should people be allowed to give up work and receive benefits off the government. just because they can get a motgage on a property?
    this is perverse to me, ok i get planning for your future and doing a buy to let for pension reasons/investment etc. but when people make enough to be able to give up work and live off benefits (via their tennants of course) this really screws the ecconomic system up.


    the reason we are dependant on benefits is government has allowed companies to reduce wages by subsidising them through benefits all the while record profits are made. company pensions dissapeared at the same time as astronimic profit companies appeared

  • Did anyone got to a Protest over the "bedroom tax" yesterday? Ours was organised by labour left, and was a shambles, little councillors mumbling in a corner to a crowd of their own flunkey's, no one else could hear them. Then just as we were going to sod off the socialists and communists moved in with a decent PA system, and rallied the crowd, told the Labour lot, who started the benefit cuts to be honest, to sod off, and we went on an impromptu march around Manchester, organised by the people, and doubled our numbers while at it. Shame it was blighted in the news by the Sunday People posters that had been handed out for free

  • "Nice One :thumbup: Good on ya BK"


    There wasn't anything local to me going on, or I'd have added to the numbers.. :S
    I only saw a brief mention of some Liverpool people on the BBC news having a rant.. :curse:
    No mention of elsewhere, so obviously it's being played down.. :eek: So annoying.. :insane: