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  • I made a comment, my friend explained to me that in different context people who'd had something horrible happen to them would find it offensive - so now I wont make that comment or similar again.

    Nuff said?

    :-)

  • While not being totally comfortable with the word, I also appreciate that black humour and the deliberate use of unpleasant phrases is pretty much ingrained in the human condition, and there is probably a very good reason for this, [ apparently shouting FUCK loudly helps with pain relief when bashing yourself on the thumb with a hammer :) ]


    We had a family member murdered by the Albanian Mafia a few years ago and while not really enjoying gangster films now I can still use the word Mafia and do.
    The argument that casual use of a word de sensitizes us to an action could be true but then again the silence is also damaging to society.


    The use of 'frape' while upsetting some for what ever reason also allows some conversation about the issue and will raise consciousness of the issue amongst some who might not otherwise have thought about it before.

  • I personally don't like it, because it's linking a word that's so serious into something petty that people take lightly.


    Although, people could say I'm just being over the top and 'it's just a joke so I should just get over it.' I don't think it's very nice if someone has gone through a traumatic experience and hears it, I certainly would be more offended and upset if I had.

  • a lot of the language we use is quite distasteful if you stop to think about it.


    but calling someone a motherfucker presumably doesn't mean you think they actually fuck their mother any more than suggesting that someone using the word frape implies they therefore must actually condone rape.


    when i was at school we used to call people 'flid'. i daresay that people with thalidomide weren't particularly chuffed that calling someone a 'flid' was the 'in thing' in the playground.


    but we did it cos we found it funny. we were kids, we didn't know any better. then we grew up and (presumably) all stopped calling people a 'flid' as we became less self-absorbed and developed a greater empathy for others.


    i imagine the term frape is used by younger folk who (hopefully) don't fully understand the gravity of the word it alludes to, so they think it's just plain funny. and you can't really blame them for their naivete, distasteful though it is to us.

    The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln

  • but calling someone a motherfucker presumably doesn't mean you think they actually fuck their mother any more than suggesting that someone using the word frape implies they therefore must actually condone rape.

    You're missing the point. Nobody is suggesting that anyone is condoning rape or even being intentionally offensive. The suggestions is that the casual use of the word "rape" in connection with mildly invasive acts belittles the act of actual rape, and trivialises it.


    Quote

    when i was at school we used to call people 'flid'. i daresay that people with thalidomide weren't particularly chuffed that calling someone a 'flid' was the 'in thing' in the playground.


    but we did it cos we found it funny. we were kids, we didn't know any better. then we grew up and (presumably) all stopped calling people a 'flid' as we became less self-absorbed and developed a greater empathy for others.

    Erm.... precisely?


    Quote

    i imagine the term frape is used by younger folk who (hopefully) don't fully understand the gravity of the word it alludes to, so they think it's just plain funny. and you can't really blame them for their naivete, distasteful though it is to us.

    Ah, I see the confusion. No, sadly it's used by grown adults as well.

  • We didn't just use "flid" we also used "Joey" after Joey Deacon, the disabled bloke who featured on one of the Blue Peter appeals. Appallingly disrespectful, but like you say we didn't really know any different - and in the long run I don't think any of us became less caring towards the disabled as a result.

    Most of us used the word "flid" in ignorance though. It's pretty clear where the word "frape" comes from. Also, I still think it would have been pretty shitty for thalidomide victims or their relatives to hear the word "flid" being thrown around, whether we all grew up to be lovely adults or not.

  • I never realised where "flid" came from until now :o - used it in the school playground on occasion along with "spaz" and "mong" (I'm sure there were other equally derogatory terms) and in all three cases there was no real understanding of where the word actually came from (and of course, some of us manage to reach adulthood and not realise some of them :S), there was no proper association, unlike with "frape".


    (as an aside, I'm convinced that Haverfordwest is the only place that still has a "Spastic Shop", everywhere else they were renamed "Scope" years ago, not here though :eek:)

  • Quote from Paul

    We didn't just use "flid" we also used "Joey" after Joey Deacon, the disabled bloke who featured on one of the Blue Peter appeals. Appallingly disrespectful, but like you say we didn't really know any different - and in the long run I don't think any of us became less caring towards the disabled as a result.


    As a formerly able bodied person who now uses a wheelchair or walker my experience is that the stereotypes and misperceptions about disabled people are still alive and kicking.We grow up and many of us become 'polite',not using words like those because we understand they might upset people,but our associations as a layman society that has grown up mocking the disabled are still there and still involve things like 'wheelchair or wobbly limbs = brain missing'.People might not be less 'caring' but you could 'care' about a rape victim without really understanding what a big deal real rape is so its not enough just that we're 'nice' to each other.The words themselves arent the problem its the beliefs that allow them to be used and what sets up the 'first thing you think of' as your template for understanding something.When 'rape' is associated with something thats trivial,a bit of a laugh as long as it doesnt happen to you and the victims fault for leaving themselves open to it,or pissing someone off enough for them to want to take that 'revenge',then those are the templates that 'society' will filter the idea of what it means to be 'raped' through.Just not saying the word to be pc and because youve become a polite grown up isnt the point,its understanding its effects on our associations and understanding that the way we use language teaches us our values as a society,it isnt just about whether an individual has a clean conscience over using a particular word because they know they dont mean what others get upset about.

  • Quote from Atomik

    It's interesting that it's mostly men defending the use of the term "frape".


    Cue all the women standing by those men and protesting that they think this is all a load of fuss about nothing too,and the men standing by the 'sisterhood' protesting that theyre the sensitive rather than neanderthal type.I think its less split by gender lines as by 'stereotyped gender thinking' (thats an appalling description,sorry :rolleyes:) about how ok things like vulnerability and distress type emotions are.One of the common words used against the 'side' that says words like frape have these meanings is 'hysterical' (stereotypical for female to mean 'having emotions') and for the side who argue 'its just a word get over it' its the word 'logical' (stereotypical for male to mean 'non emotional' or at least able to override that pesky,'female' emotion with intellect) thats used.And those are kind of our reference points in the debate that affect which side we place ourselves on.*Some* people will be comfortable with their stance on the issue,understand why theyve taken that position and not be bothered by how people see them as a result.A lot of people though will form or voice their opinions based on the way they want to be seen..thatd be why being seen as sensitive and appreciative of the seriousness of rape and how its percieved in our culture shoud be encouraged because it is actually ok for people whove been raped to be emotionally affected by that experience without it following that theyre 'weak'.


    I'm not sure that made any sense out of my head :S

  • i'm not familiar with this business first hand but to be honest i had assumed it was the younger facebook yoofs using the frape word. if it's adults too then they really ought to know better. :rolleyes:

    The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln

  • everyone i know who uses it is my age - so early 20s. (perhaps that is younger fb yoofs to you though :P)


    pretty much anyone under 40 is young to me. :o


    but i don't use facebook anymore, never heard this word when i briefly did, and just assumed it was younger people - but was thinking more like 12-14 year olds or something who p'raps didn't realise the gravitas of the word they were playing around with.


    but what the fuck do i know, i'm ready for knacker's yard i think. :oap:

    The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln

  • pretty much everyone i have met at uni uses it with abandon. which is why although i found it uncomfortable at first i then had the choice of getting used to it and dismissing it, or getting upset/annoyed every time i went on fb and with everyone on my course. And woe is me, i picked the former!

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • Interesting thread. I've used fraped with out thinking many times. Most folk I know I think would use it boys or girls. I've never considered it to trivialise rape it self. I do know someone very close who was raped and now thinking about it disturbs me a little. Is that because I trivialised rape before hand or is it just I didn't really connect fraping and the act of rape as being related to each other. Tricky.