Schizophrenia....Dont know what to make of this...

Welcome to UKHIppy2764@2x.png

UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • who are we to decide what is a healthy coping mechanism? would leaving that toddler in the same house with his violent sibling be any more healthy?


    Honestly, I cannot see how splitting your family up is ever going to have a positive effect. But that's just my opinion. I think they need to be able to support eachother and even IF she is Schizophrenic, that doesn't mean she can't learn behaviours as other children do, in time. Patience is key, and obviously increased vigilance around the other child until she has learned that lashing out is unacceptable behaviour.


    Quote

    maybe she did start it for attention, but most kids grow out of that, they stop


    And some don't. Generally speaking, a child will stop behaving in a negative way when it stops getting them the reaction they crave. Her parents have never ignored the behaviour so why would she stop? It's not malicious, it's a basic strategy that all children utilise to some degree.



    Quote

    the parents said they tried everything else they could think of to stop it before resorting to meds, and they couldnt control her. now some may say well they are just bad parents, but her behavior was extreme, and she hardly ever slept, can you imagine how physically draining that is, not just for the first few months or years but for 5, 6, 7 years?


    About as bad as a child with ADHD I imagine, but there are hundreds of parents who refuse to put their child on Ritalin...


    Quote

    i can tell you from experience what it is like to have a delusional person keep you awake night after night, i've been there done it and it is hell on earth.with a new baby to look after as well it must have been terrible for them, it was hard enough for me with a 16 month old baby.


    And I can tell you how bad it is to have doctors shoving meds down your throat to "alleviate symptoms" that never work, only to have horrendous side effects until they decide another drug may work...or not, as the case may be. The problem is, because you've been in the same position as the parents, you don't see what the child will go through in the longrun. I appreciate it must be hard for them, but look at the child! Does she honestly look like she's sleeping to you?



    Quote

    how is it you know the drugs make the hallucinations worse? they affect people in different ways, one persons experience with them is not the same as anothers. is this a medically proven fact, are their studies done?


    Hallucinations are listed in the common side effects of most anti psychotics, anti depressants and even in the drugs they give you to lessen side effects.


    Quote

    and if so, why would they give it to her if it was going to make the delusions worse,


    If I knew the answer to that, I wouldn't have spent ten years being forced to take drugs that make you worse...


    Quote

    from what the parents have said she is far more in control of her behaviour on the meds, they stated that the new ones have no sedative effect, but allow her control over her 'friends', so she doesnt have to do what they say. surely thats a good thing?


    One word, placebo.

  • Has anyone considered that this child has a real mental illness and that the drugs are the only way that she can get through a day without harming herself or those around her?


    Of course nobody (sensible) wants chemicals flowing through their bloodstream ... but like any major illness there isn't always an alternative. It's no longer about cages, lobotomies and water cannons - psychiatrists are more aware than ever (but not perfect) of the implications and have to weigh up both the advantages and risks when prescribing treatments.


    Unless anyone here is a trained medical professional with relevant objective experience and knows better of course.

  • I agree with Enigma Rising and Paul totally.


    I know that people have horrific experiences with mediations - its the same with some meds that treat physical illness too. These are desperate parents and I'm sure they haven't taken moving into 2 places lightly either - its costing them more and putting a strain on their marriage. This really does not sound like a child just playing up, she sounds seriously ill to me and unless we were to live a day in their lives I don't think we'll understand just how bad it is.

  • And I can tell you how bad it is to have doctors shoving meds down your throat to "alleviate symptoms" that never work, only to have horrendous side effects until they decide another drug may work...or not, as the case may be.


    I am sorry you have had to go throught that. i may not have expierienced it myself but i have watched my ex-husband go through it, thing is for him they did alleviate symptoms, so much so that when he stopped taking them it was like his evil twin took his place. for some people they do have positive effects alongside the more negative side effects.



    The problem is, because you've been in the same position as the parents, you don't see what the child will go through in the longrun.


    And the problem is that because you have been in the position of the child, you dont see what the parents have been through, and will continue to go through in the long run.


    you assume that i ignore the likely side effects of the meds on this child, i dont, i spent an awful lot of time researching these kinds of meds, how they work and what they do to the body, i also watched the effects of various kinds on my husband, whom i cared for day in day out until he bacame to agressive to have in the same house as my child. i made the descision that my son, and myself would be safer not living with him, and i was right. it was the only way we could have any semblance of a normal life, sometimes splitting a family up is the only way to keep a child safe, when all other options have tried and failed.


    i know that for some people, the illness, or risk of it returning, is infinately preferable to a life on meds, i spent a lot of time having to come to terms with that concept. In an ideal world society would have mechanisms in place to help the families of those affected by these issues, ways to help people live off meds and function and survive, a safe place whewre they could live with the workld the way it is in their heads if tat is what they choose, or better meds that dont cause so many problems, one day we will, but right now, there are really very few choices.



    I appreciate it must be hard for them, but look at the child! Does she honestly look like she's sleeping to you?


    No, which is why i think her problems may primarily be due to a sleep disorder, a malfunction in her body's ability to sleep could explain all of her issues.



    One word, placebo.


    If that were the case, i should think one of the other drugs they have tried would have done that a long time ago.

    Turned on, tuned in, loved up, trippin out, freaky on the outside, shiny in the middle.

  • If the child is happier then that's all that really matters. I just genuinely feel for the family as a whole in having to split up. If the meds were indeed working, surely they could move back in together?

  • Patience is key, and obviously increased vigilance around the other child until she has learned that lashing out is unacceptable behaviour.


    But she won't learn that being shown violence first hand from her father.
    I know they're under pressure, but that's pretty extreme.

  • I am sorry you have had to go throught that. i may not have expierienced it myself but i have watched my ex-husband go through it, thing is for him they did alleviate symptoms, so much so that when he stopped taking them it was like his evil twin took his place. for some people they do have positive effects alongside the more negative side effects.


    I think that will be the case for many people, but there are also many that have horrendous side affects. I can't even begin to tell you how bad they get. I used to lay in bed literally twitching so hard that I would lift from the bed. My skin became so irritated that I scratched it until my entire body was raw. The only thing that alleviated it was an ice bath.
    I would vomit 60 times a day, resulting in dangerously high levels of weight loss. My hair fell out, my eyes developed fatty yellow deposits and my teeth began to rot.


    Imagine a scarecrow and you pretty much have the image of moi until I said enough was enough. My parents forced all of this onto me and I had no choice in the matter until I reached 16. Even then I struggled because they had to decide whether or not I was a danger to myself or anyone else. Alas, the decision remained with my parents until I could proveI was relatively sane.



    Quote

    And the problem is that because you have been in the position of the child, you dont see what the parents have been through, and will continue to go through in the long run.


    I'm sorry, but the child is more important than the parents.


    Quote

    you assume that i ignore the likely side effects of the meds on this child, i dont, i spent an awful lot of time researching these kinds of meds, how they work and what they do to the body, i also watched the effects of various kinds on my husband, whom i cared for day in day out until he bacame to agressive to have in the same house as my child. i made the descision that my son, and myself would be safer not living with him, and i was right. it was the only way we could have any semblance of a normal life, sometimes splitting a family up is the only way to keep a child safe, when all other options have tried and failed.


    Like I said, the child is more important than the parents.


    Quote

    i know that for some people, the illness, or risk of it returning, is infinately preferable to a life on meds, i spent a lot of time having to come to terms with that concept. In an ideal world society would have mechanisms in place to help the families of those affected by these issues, ways to help people live off meds and function and survive, a safe place whewre they could live with the workld the way it is in their heads if tat is what they choose, or better meds that dont cause so many problems, one day we will, but right now, there are really very few choices.


    That I agree with



    Quote

    No, which is why i think her problems may primarily be due to a sleep disorder, a malfunction in her body's ability to sleep could explain all of her issues.


    I think it would be extremely convenient if she did have a sleep disorder. Far more plausible that it's down to the drugs if you ask me...


    Quote

    If that were the case, i should think one of the other drugs they have tried would have done that a long time ago.


    I was merely alluding to your suggestion that the drugs are working. They can't be, otherwise they'd have moved back in together-no?


  • I think it would be extremely convenient if she did have a sleep disorder. Far more plausible that it's down to the drugs if you ask me...


    I'm not sure you're really making sense.


    If the behaviour existed prior to her taking the medicine, then how can the medicine have caused it?


    I am wondering whether because you had a really traumatic experience along these lines, you're not looking at it objectively? I haven't been able to watch the video as I have no sound on the PC, but from what Ness posted I don't have any reason to believe that the medicines were the cause of the problems. It sounds like the care available to her was inadequate and often inappropriate, and it sounds like the trial-and-error approach to medication caused a lot of issues... but ultimately, if what she now takes is preventing her throwing herself out of windows, then of course they're going to give it to her.


    It does sound, to me, like the sleep deprivation is the primary issue. Lack of sleep in very young children is bound to cause psychological problems. We know it causes delusions and paranoia in adult people, so I can only imagine the effect it would have on a rapidly-developing brain.

  • I'm not sure you're really making sense.


    If the behaviour existed prior to her taking the medicine, then how can the medicine have caused it?


    Sorry, I just realised that doesn't make sense at all! :rolleyes: Having a blonde moment there! Let me explain myself a little better. I am referring to the bags under her eyes that exist now, those I blame on the meds. I figure if her meds were working she wouldn't still have the sleep problems.


    As for the problems before the meds, It's not rare for kids to have problems sleeping. Jeez my 3 week old baby managed to sleep 2 hours all night a few weeks ago. The rest of the time she refused to sleep. That seems impossible, but apparently not.


    Of course it could be that she has Schizophrenia and is having related sleep issues. Problem with that theory is that people don't realise just how unbelievably rare Schizophrenia really is. As has been mentioned previously, people often display symptoms, but there are a multitude of more likely causes for those symptoms.


    Quote

    I am wondering whether because you had a really traumatic experience along these lines, you're not looking at it objectively?


    It's because of my experience that I can speak objectively. I know a lot about it, and I know it's unlikely that she has it. Not because her symptoms don't say so, not because I think I'm a doctor, because statistics don't lie and thousands upon thousands of people have been mis diagnosed with Schizophrenia.


    Quote

    I haven't been able to watch the video as I have no sound on the PC, but from what Ness posted I don't have any reason to believe that the medicines were the cause of the problems.


    None of us have any way of knowing if the meds are the problem. They may be, they may not. I am merely stating that in conjunction with my belief (that she is not in fact Schizophrenic), the meds are going to cause her more problems than is healthy. Also, if she does have Schizophrenia, I and many other "sufferers" can testify that they are seriously bad for your brain. I assume you've read my list of side affects above? I know many people who's SA's were worse than mine...


    Quote

    It sounds like the care available to her was inadequate and often inappropriate, and it sounds like the trial-and-error approach to medication caused a lot of issues... but ultimately, if what she now takes is preventing her throwing herself out of windows, then of course they're going to give it to her.


    Unfortunately the trial and error approach is the ONLY approach available. It rarely works, and when it does you have the scars to tell the tale!


    Quote

    It does sound, to me, like the sleep deprivation is the primary issue. Lack of sleep in very young children is bound to cause psychological problems. We know it causes delusions and paranoia in adult people, so I can only imagine the effect it would have on a rapidly-developing brain.


    I completely agree, sleep deprivation is a killer. The effect it has on your brain is phenomenal.

  • I do have to wonder why, if trying to treat the symptoms of whatever this child may have hasn't worked, they haven't tried looking for other causes. I didn't read anywhere that she has had any kind of brain scan - the problem could be physical?

  • I do have to wonder why, if trying to treat the symptoms of whatever this child may have hasn't worked, they haven't tried looking for other causes. I didn't read anywhere that she has had any kind of brain scan - the problem could be physical?


    Well the parents claim it is working. But my argument is that if it's working, why are they still living in separate homes? Why does she still look ill? Meh, I can't see how it's working; but they've got to live that life, not me.