The Pope's Visit

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  • So we have the petition on here
    http://www.ukhippy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44162



    So lets debate it here ........


    The Pope not only opposes the right of women to have an abortion but also their right to contraception to prevent the need for abortions.


    He also opposes women’s access to IVF fertility treatment to give childless couples the chance of parenthood. He condemns potentially life-saving embryonic stem cell research.


    Pope Benedict denounces the use of condoms, even to stop the spread of HIV, as well as claiming falsely that condom usage “increases” the rate of HIV infection. This puts millions of lives at risk.


    He opposes legal equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, and their full protection in law against homophobic and transphobic discrimination


    The Pope has authorised the Catholic Catechism, which condemns same-sex relationships as a “grave depravity” and “contrary to natural law.” In 1992, he criticised gay sexuality as a “tendency ordered towards an intrinsic moral evil.”


    While condemning loving, consenting adult same-sex relations, the Pope played a role in shielding Catholic clergy guilty of child sex abuse from prosecution, as revealed in the 2006 BBC Panorama programme, Sex crimes and the Vatican.


    I like the idea of sugesting banning him. Cant see it will stop his visit but it good to show opposition.


    Protest about his vist .... good idea .... but who will do it
    I quite like the idea of standing quietly and turning ones back on him
    but I'm not likely to travel very far to do so.


    he could be banned on ...
    hate crimes? his stance on lesbian and gays?
    because of threats to public order


  • Banning someone from entering a country because of what he believes in? :eek:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • No, because of the things he advocates which are contrary to our Law.


    So? :S


    Bloody hell, if that is a reason to not be welcome here 90% of the people on this site are fucked! :eek:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • And Tony Blair. :D


    And any Irish MP who voted to keep abortion illegal.....and indeed any Irish person who voted for an MP for that reason.

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • And any Irish MP who voted to keep abortion illegal.....and indeed any Irish person who voted for an MP for that reason.


    The pope is german and vatican. He can say what he likes in the vatican, I couldn't care less, but I don't want a show of deference for anyone who has suggested to africans that they shouldn't wear condoms and that they actually cause aids. Given his status, that edict or bull or whatever its called is intimidation and likely to lead to misery which other people will have to clear up. I've worked in Africa and governments in developed countries never have enough money to help out. Let him come then if you want, but in a private capacity with no police protection, no state banquets, no receptions and no mass audiences.

  • Let him meet some of the poor so and sos who were sexually abused by priests that he has protected - on the understanding that the pope has no protection as the poor victims didn't when they were abused.

  • The pope is german and vatican. He can say what he likes in the vatican, I couldn't care less, but I don't want a show of deference for anyone who has suggested to africans that they shouldn't wear condoms and that they actually cause aids. Given his status, that edict or bull or whatever its called is intimidation and likely to lead to misery which other people will have to clear up. I've worked in Africa and governments in developed countries never have enough money to help out. Let him come then if you want, but in a private capacity with no police protection, no state banquets, no receptions and no mass audiences.


    :ditto:


    There is a *big* difference between allowing someone freedom of speech, which he does have already, and the state inviting him to this country, publicising it and thereby giving credence to everything he stands for :mad:


    Protesting against him being invited into this country is not attempting to "ban him" or "ban freedom of speech", it is simply limiting the influence that his bigoted views have.

  • I dont like him and I do not hold to the same value set as he does, but to start saying you cannot come into Britain if you have certain beliefs is bordering on the attitude of Saudi and brings us well and truly into the realm of the thought crime :S


    {tangent}

    The pope is german and vatican. He can say what he likes in the vatican, I couldn't care less, but I don't want a show of deference for anyone who has suggested to africans that they shouldn't wear condoms and that they actually cause aids.


    Did he? Can you supply an actual sourced quote on that....or is it that he actually said that condoms aggravate the problem because they encourage a general attitude of promiscuity? Which isnt quite the same thing.
    {/tangent}

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."


  • Protesting against him being invited into this country is not attempting to "ban him" or "ban freedom of speech", it is simply limiting the influence that his bigoted views have.


    Yeah, bigots arnt welcome here. They should all bugger off back to bigot land where they belong :rolleyes:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • I thought the issue on this was the money being spent on it? Someone linked a petition on facebook about objecting to taxpayer's money being spent on his visit. If that is so, I support action against that.

  • "I dont like him and I do not hold to the same value set as he does, but to start saying you cannot come into Britain if you have certain beliefs is bordering on the attitude of Saudi and brings us well and truly into the realm of the thought crime :S"
    I know many christians who have lived and worked in Saudi without problems. Believing in Jesus is one thing, trying to convert people in a country where its illegal is another. As always, thoughts are private, actions aren't, but we've been here before I think.

  • "I dont like him and I do not hold to the same value set as he does, but to start saying you cannot come into Britain if you have certain beliefs is bordering on the attitude of Saudi and brings us well and truly into the realm of the thought crime :S"
    I know many christians who have lived and worked in Saudi without problems.


    That is all the more damning of the people of this country who want the pope to be "banned" from coming :eek:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • That is all the more damning of the people of this country who want the pope to be "banned" from coming :eek:


    I'm sure the pope would be very welcome in saudi, after all, they share the same views on many things, like homosexuality. As I said, believing something is fine, acting on those beliefs isn't, if it harms other people. If he wants to make a private visit I'd have no objection whatsoever.

  • There will always be those who are blindly devoted to whatever religion or belief system they believe and there are many practicing Catholics in the UK (including the horrid Blairs). The Catholics could argue that their rights are being infringed upon by refusing the Pope entry to the UK. For those who don't believe the tenets of a particular faith, we reject them. Plain as. If those of us who believe the Pope's views are medieval, misogynistic, and out of touch, there are many ways of showing our displeasure. I know I have told the story here before, but when the KKK marched down our main street, everyone turned out, turned their backs, and remained completely silent. That one act of peaceful protest spoke volumes.


    If the government is determined to throw money at this man, they will. He is not only a religious leader, but - as has always been the case - a political leader as well. His followers here want to celebrate his visit and there is really nothing the man on the street can do about it. But at least there is the freedom to stand up and be counted as opposing the archaic views of this man.

  • I guess I'm just fed up because the news will be full of it, the faithful will be hanging on his every word, because he's the head of their religion, he has all sorts of skeletons in his cupboard, but good catholics aren't supposed to mention it, he'll be fawned over by our government and we're footing the bill :curse:

  • I guess I'm just fed up because the news will be full of it, the faithful will be hanging on his every word, because he's the head of their religion, he has all sorts of skeletons in his cupboard, but good catholics aren't supposed to mention it, he'll be fawned over by our government and we're footing the bill :curse:


    Same crap happens over here. Someone is a leader of whatever and the red carpet has to be rolled out so as to not be exclusive. But the Pope has been a player in the world for a couple of thousand years...it is maddening though. He has had his visit over here - with special security and huge arenas reserved for the huge masses. Disgusting...it's all show and so little substance.

  • Why ?
    I have not heard the Dali Lama spout hatred against any group of people .... not even the Chinese


    I have nothing against the Dali Lama I just don't agree with banning people from coming here because you don't like what they say or do. I'm all in favor of free speech.

  • You mention many times "thought crime"


    You are allowed to think what you like it really is no crime
    A crime MAY occur if you speak or write your thought's down AND those thoughts break laws such as inciting racial hatred .....


    They are what he and millions of Roman Catholics believe; would you want all the Roman Catholics removed from the country as well for believing the same :eek:


    Quote from Julianthegypsy

    As I said, believing something is fine, acting on those beliefs isn't, if it harms other people.


    Like I said, he has no power in Law over anyone.

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • They are what he and millions of Roman Catholics believe; would you want all the Roman Catholics removed from the country as well for believing the same :eek:




    Like I said, he has no power in Law over anyone.


    Oh great. And does that make any difference to the poor sods who think they'll burn in hell for all eternity if they don't do what he tells them?

  • Oh great. And does that make any difference to the poor sods who think they'll burn in hell for all eternity if they don't do what he tells them?


    What does that have to do with whether or not he is allowed here to speak? Any Roman Catholic can teach that if you dont act in the way Catholics believe you are off to hell.... 6 million people in the UK share those views and values.

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."