The Pope's Visit

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  • Fine, lets bring back the inquisition then, while we're at it, and lets not bother with parliament, we could just hand back authority to the bishops and the mullahs, after all, it's what they believe in, who are we to disagree?

  • Fine, lets bring back the inquisition then, while we're at it, and lets not bother with parliament, we could just hand back authority to the bishops and the mullahs, after all, it's what they believe in, who are we to disagree?


    Are you going to deny the 6 million Catholics living here the freedom to speak about what they believe in?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Coyote ().

  • that's not what julian said,
    of course they have the freedom to speak about what they believe in..
    but the pope is a git..(an intelligent and reasoned appraisal :D) all the stuff he has condoned is appalling.. the holocaust denier being re-instated, and the fact that he is prepared to look the other way regarding the child abuse by his priests.. the man is a proper git..
    however.. I would like to be one of the crowd who turns their back on him, but I resent the amount of money we will have to pay to have him here, just so we can watch Tony Blair brown nose someone else..
    the man has no shame, there he is, nose only recently cleaned from sticking up Bush's arse, :vomit:

    Freedom of speech is a topic we have covered extensively on here, its not this that is the issue for me, its the cost of his visit..

  • that's not what julian said,


    It is the point that Julian appears to be ignoring though....that there are 6 millon people in this country with ostensibly the same views; are they also to be gagged?


    Quote


    but the pope is a git..(an intelligent and reasoned appraisal :D)


    I agree :D and I have no personal liking of Catholicism (in fact I actually think it is anti-christian in many ways....so is not what it claims to be) but I have no desire for my country, such as it is, to ban people from entry on the basis of what they believe (or indeed to find excuses for that under the cover of "funding it" :whistle:;)).

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Coyote you just dont get it ( or you are being a :reddevil:)
    Its not about the beliefs of the faithful ....
    Its not even about the priests who dont seem to spout hate from the pulpit
    It is about a Head of State and the Head of a World religion - who at a very minimum spouts hatred at lesbians and gays
    the other things he spouts such as not using condoms might not
    break any of our laws but condem many to moral dilemmas or death and
    thats criminal.


    banning people from the UK because of their views does happen
    such as the Dutch MP Geert Wilders, Israeli Moshe Feglin who was banned as his presence was not conductive to the public good, and of course radical Muslim clerics are also banned

  • Coyote you just dont get it ( or you are being a :reddevil:)
    Its not about the beliefs of the faithful ....
    Its not even about the priests who dont seem to spout hate from the pulpit
    It is about a Head of State and the Head of a World religion - who at a very minimum spouts hatred at lesbians and gays


    I would like to see a well sourced quote where he does anything of the sort :eek: I've seen him criticise Homosexual Acts but that is not the same thing as spouting hatred at lesbians and gays. He thinks homosexual acts are sinful, that is his belief. :shrug:


    Quote

    the other things he spouts such as not using condoms might not
    break any of our laws but condem many to moral dilemmas or death and
    thats criminal.

    Actually no it isnt. One, the very definition of "criminal" requires laws be broken and I am aware of no laws being broken by his comments on condoms. Two, his comments do bare looking at in so far as whether condom use *does* promote promiscuity and thus a general approach to sex which *does* increase the potential for catching various diseases (AIDS included).


    Quote

    banning people from the UK because of their views does happen
    such as the Dutch MP Geert Wilders, Israeli Moshe Feglin who was banned as his presence was not conductive to the public good, and of course radical Muslim clerics are also banned

    I've yet to see popey ever rabble rouse a mob into attack other people; at least not this side of the crusades :D


    And I clearly said that I wouldn NOT ban him for the things he believes.


    So what would you ban him for; and what would be your response to Catholics who live here if they do the same?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Two, his comments do bare looking at in so far as whether condom use *does* promote promiscuity and thus a general approach to sex which *does* increase the potential for catching various diseases (AIDS included).


    I shall, indeed, ask you to visit Uganda!
    Condoms don't = AIDs?! That's crazy!
    A male dominated society, lack of doctors and money, and information = AIDS!

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • I think the best response to a fool's words is the truth, stated clearly
    We should greet him with banners saying


    " 'Love thy neighbour' and 'Do not judge' - gay rights are human rights "


    and


    " Preach from your pulpit. Stay out of our laws "

  • Also I think it's fair to add that the Pope does not represent the views of all 6.6million Catholics in the UK or whatever the number is. Lots of Catholics have a respect for the figure of the Pope because that's how they where brought up but none of the Catholics I know live their life according to what the Pope says and they don't judge others by what he says. You will have some who do obviously but you'd be as likely to find many in Protestant denominations that agree with much of what he says as well. I think we need to let him come but at the same time I hope eventually those that do want him to come and believe in what he says become fewer and fewer as Christianity eventually dies out.

  • Richard Dawkins plans to have the Pope arrested according to The Times


    Quote


    RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain "for crimes against humanity".

    I want front-row seats for that one. :)

  • Interesting that since this thread started, he's is now at the centre of a massive scandal, which keeps on growing. We were debating whether he should be banned on the basis of his attitudes/statements etc regarding aids, gays/lesbians etc and the child abuse was a minor issue. How things have moved on. Anyone ripening their eggs then?

  • There's alot i could say in this post, but i can sum it up in a few words, The pope is an egit who put the catholic church back even further than it was before, i hate him i hate him i hate him. I could rant on for hours but it just makes me so angry.

    Taking Life To Seriously? Just Remember We Are Talking Monkeys On An Organic Spaceship.

  • There's alot i could say in this post, but i can surm it up in a few words, The pope is an egit who put the catholic church back even further than it was before, i hate him i hate him i hate him. I could rant on for hours but it just makes me so angry.


    I like him! At last we have a Pope stupid enough to expose this morally bankrupt organization for what it is. And the bonus of a German Cardinal calling Britain a Third World Country run by athiests. What an utterly, wonderfully evil man.

  • I like him! At last we have a Pope stupid enough to expose this morally bankrupt organization for what it is. And the bonus of a German Cardinal calling Britain a Third World Country run by athiests. What an utterly, wonderfully evil man.



    The Pope has been asked to look less obviously evil. Click! :D


    Details of protest march this Saturday here.

  • Fascinating words Evil,morals and sin...we usually put our own take on them as opposed to a religious definition..


    In Tibetan Buddhism,Lesbian and Gay sex is a sin...


    Quote

    Although he is known for his tolerant, humane views, he is a surprisingly harsh critic of homosexuality. If you are a Buddhist, he says, it is wrong. "Full stop.
    No way round it.
    "A gay couple came to see me, seeking my support and blessing. I had to explain our teachings. Another lady introduced another woman as her wife - astonishing. It is the same with a husband and wife using certain sexual practices. Using the other two holes is wrong."
    At this point, he looks across at his interpreter - who seems mainly redundant - to check that he has been using the right English words to discuss this delicate matter. The interpreter gives a barely perceptible nod.
    "A Western friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex, if they enjoyed it," the Dalai Lama continues, warming to his theme. "But the purpose of sex is reproduction, according to Buddhism. The other holes don't create life. I don't mind - but I can't condone this way of life."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…re-too-self-absorbed.html


    He loves the sinner but hates the sin..just like the Pope.. :angel:

  • the bonus of a German Cardinal calling Britain a Third World Country run by athiests. What an utterly, wonderfully evil man.



    What was it that he said that was "utterly....evil"? And does the fact that he is a German speaking about Britain make a difference?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • But he says he doesn't mind, and he doesn't as far as I know condemn people to eternal damnation and hellfire. Slighty different attitude?



    Both Tibetan Buddhism and Roman Catholicism consider homosexual acts to be wrong: "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct" (Source).


    The eternal damnation is the Catholic Doctrine, but then Buddhism gives you karma; " The belief that disability is the result of past life karma is held by Hindus, Buddhists and other religionists" (Source). Same basic attitudes, just worded a bit differently. But that is inconvenient for Hippys :p

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • But then, the way I see it, eternal damnation is a lot worse than bad karma being visited on you in a future incarnation - at least in a future incarnation you have the opportunity to change things for the incarnation after that (plus, based on the article you sourced your information from, it also gives other people the opportunity to avoid bad karma themselves and live in a more positive way - no judgement on why you have a disability) whereas if you're damned for eternity...well, it's for eternity with no hope beyond :p