immunisations?

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  • thats the info ive got yeah. not from the sameplace mind you, theres alot of info on the net.

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • But we're not responsible for the health of everyone elses children..


    Do you think it is responsible for somebody with swine flu to go walking into a hospital with loads of sick people? Our own actions affect other people.


    In order to prevent an epidemic there needs to be a herd immunity, this prevents a chain of infections that can cause an infectious disease to spread through out a population. To give you an idea of how quickly a chain of infections can lead to an epidemic, look no further than the swine flu outbreak!

  • Quote from Barefoot Surfer

    In order to prevent an epidemic there needs to be a herd immunity,


    Yes,but within that we're individuals making choices for our own children,not society at large.If a parent feels its a risk to their child why should they vaccinate anyway to protect other peoples?

  • do you realise that the only people who died during the last outbreak of this so called swine flu were the people who had the vaccination?

    if we vaccinate against these (man made) diseases, it will only mutate into a nastier version of itself, which is precisely why people die AFTER they have the jab.
    why do you think 'childhood' diseases are supposedly coming back? survival of the fittest, everything adapts itself and mutates to survive, we humans are the weakest thing on this planet by rights we should be extinct by now!

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • do you realise that the only people who died during the last outbreak of this so called swine flu were the people who had the vaccination?


    Thats not true.

    Quote

    if we vaccinate against these (man made) diseases, it will only mutate into a nastier version of itself, which is precisely why people die AFTER they have the jab.
    why do you think 'childhood' diseases are supposedly coming back? survival of the fittest, everything adapts itself and mutates to survive, we humans are the weakest thing on this planet by rights we should be extinct by now!


    And nors that.If you state ideas like this as fact youre not helping people make an informed choice youre misleading and scaremongering.

  • Nope,I'm quite comfortable with that statement cheers Suze :D If youre able to provide actual evidence that unvaccinated children are stronger and healthier I'm all ears.Or if you can provide proof that being vaccinated makes children frailer and weaker.


    Its a nonsense statement put out by parents who dont vaccinate to justify their decision.The fact they feel the need to justify in in that way says a lot.


    I questioned and made a different choice,thats all :)


    yes :) sorry if i suggested or implied otherwise.

  • its not scaremongering at all, im not telling you not to immunise your kids, do what you want it is apparently a free country. if i can sift through all the shit on my computer i'll show you where i get my info from, its not untrue its science. fact.
    you've got this disease yeah? you make something to fight it. disease goes away for a while, its not dead its dormant, it'll come back eventually, stronger and better than before because thats how nature works, like i said survival of the fittest.
    you believe what you want and i'll do the same.

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'


  • my child could come into contact with a carrier of ANYTHING at any time.
    my job as a mother will be to feed it well ( breast ) , use nature's remedies, feed it organic vegan food , avoid chemicals, and encourage a healthy lifestyle so that it has a strong immune system. that is responsible imo. for me. and my kid. and i am not criticising others who think differently or calling them irresponsible for vaccinating despite my feelings. unlike you lol :P

  • do you realise that the only people who died during the last outbreak of this so called swine flu were the people who had the vaccination?

    if we vaccinate against these (man made) diseases, it will only mutate into a nastier version of itself, which is precisely why people die AFTER they have the jab.
    why do you think 'childhood' diseases are supposedly coming back? survival of the fittest, everything adapts itself and mutates to survive, we humans are the weakest thing on this planet by rights we should be extinct by now!


    You will find that 'childhood' diseases are coming back because of a reduced herd immunity, it is up to the individual to choose to vaccinate or not, but what about the next person and the next person. Suppose 50% of the population decide to take up the MMR vaccination? Measles is a deadly and highly contagious disease, with a herd immunity that low it will spread to epidemic proportions very quickly. You are talking about a disease here that has the potential to wipe out entire communities!

  • Uuuummm, I didnt mean to start an arguement, I'm sorry if I've caused any upset, I was just interested to see what other people made of vaccinations, we havent vaccinated our children and I've only ever met 1 other person who hasnt either.
    My children are'nt as 'strong as oxes' they get colds and pick up the odd infection, but they have supplements, such as floradix kindervital, and we all use coloidal silver, and i breastfed both of them. they both had chicken pox last year for 3 days, and they've been in contact with children with hand foot and mouth and a cchild who we later found to have mumps.
    im not saying that not vaccinating has made them invincible but i feel that compared to my friends children of the same ages, they're healthier in general (but compared to most other children they do have a generally more healthy diet and get lots of excersise)


    no argument from me... congrats on your decision. am interested in coloidal silver too.

  • my child could come into contact with a carrier of ANYTHING at any time.
    my job as a mother will be to feed it well ( breast ) , use nature's remedies, feed it organic vegan food , avoid chemicals, and encourage a healthy lifestyle so that it has a strong immune system. that is responsible imo. for me. and my kid. and i am not criticising others who think differently or calling them irresponsible for vaccinating despite my feelings. unlike you lol :P



    now see THATS what im getting at. Im sorry if i caused anyone any offence. I just automatically get catty as I have my sister for a sister and she's a great big cowbag.

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • my mum has got swine flu by the way. she's fine.

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • its not scaremongering at all, im not telling you not to immunise your kids, do what you want it is apparently a free country. if i can sift through all the shit on my computer i'll show you where i get my info from, its not untrue its science. fact.
    you've got this disease yeah? you make something to fight it. disease goes away for a while, its not dead its dormant, it'll come back eventually, stronger and better than before because thats how nature works, like i said survival of the fittest.
    you believe what you want and i'll do the same.


    Your swine flu statement was not fact.And your understanding of pathogens is flawed.We can all believe whatever we like,it doesnt make you right if your beliefs dont hold up to reality.

  • You will find that 'childhood' diseases are coming back because of a reduced herd immunity, it is up to the individual to choose to vaccinate or not, but what about the next person and the next person. Suppose 50% of the population decide to take up the MMR vaccination? Measles is a deadly and highly contagious disease, with a herd immunity that low it will spread to epidemic proportions very quickly. You are talking about a disease here that has the potential to wipe out entire communities!


    indeed it is.. choice, which is why it is not on to call people who do not vaccinate irresponsible... imo

  • also, i was vaccinated as a baby, and i STILL got measles, im fine, my partner was vaccinated too, he got measles, mumps AND menengitis and he's healthier than anyone i know. having an immunisation doesnt mean you wont get it.

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • having an immunisation doesnt mean you wont get it.

    Although, not all vaccines claim to stop you getting the illness, some are given with the intention that if you catch it that you won't be as ill.

  • i give in i cant find the link on the computer as the bloody thing must need defragging, its too slow. also cant find my immunisation books (main one is 'the vaccination bible'- unbiased and informative actually- there we go- that word again...choices!)

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • my child could come into contact with a carrier of ANYTHING at any time.
    my job as a mother will be to feed it well ( breast ) , use nature's remedies, feed it organic vegan food , avoid chemicals, and encourage a healthy lifestyle so that it has a strong immune system. that is responsible imo. for me. and my kid. and i am not criticising others who think differently or calling them irresponsible for vaccinating despite my feelings. unlike you lol :P


    My feelings about this subject come from my own experience. Before I went to uni, the mumps epidemic was predicted so I made damn sure that I was vaccinated against it. That meant that I had an MMR jab in my mid 20's. That was quite unusual at my surgery.


    To give you an idea of how irresponsible I think choosing not to vaccinate is. I personally see on the same level as getting completly wasted and then attempting to drive. When I was at uni, some of the male students in my halls had caught mumps; they were very lucky, one of the complications that an adult male can have in catching mumps is infertility. If that guy cannot have kids because somebody doesn't want to immunise their kids, he has every right to feel very pissed off.


    Also due to the low uptake of MMR, measles is now emdemic in this country.

  • yes and a parent has every right to feel pissed off when they're happy healthy bilingual 3 year old becomes a scared, almost mute, sick child almost incapable of physical interaction 3 weeks after having the mmr.
    just one case that i know of, also my friend works in a home for adults affected by immunisations as children, some of the are in a vegetative state.
    my friends daughter was in hospital for 2 weeks after her 1st baby jabs and my own daughter projectile vomited for 24 hours after hers and screamed if anyone touched her.
    i will not put formaldehyde or mercury into my children as i live and breath i will fight for my right not to do so, you make your decisions, i'll make mine but you CANNOT and will not make me feel like a bad mother for protecting my children as best i know how.

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • Technically no one has the 'right' to be pissed off with anyone about it :whistle:


    Seriously though shit happens.Its horrible for the people it happens to but we can protect in the best way we know how and theres still no guarantee of wellbeing.The guy at college could have got cancer and become infertile,the vaccinated child may well have been 'damaged' by something else had they not had the jab.We're all individual so no one thing is going to work for everyone.And so we make personal choices and hope we've stacked the odds in our favour.Attacking and blaming others for their choices isnt really fair when we're unwilling to sacrifice our own choices for theirs.

  • im not attacking anyone.
    im now off to bed so sweet dreams people.
    xx

    'theres room at the top they are telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile when you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill.'

  • I will just ask the question, how would you feel if the choice was taken out of your hands for the interests of public health?


    It is a distinct possibility if there is a low uptake in immunisations.


    One of the things we forget is the eradication of small pox. It is one of mass immunisation's success stories. The downside is, that if somebody wanted to release a weaponised version of it, most of the population under 30 will be wiped out as a result.

  • Technically no one has the 'right' to be pissed off with anyone about it :whistle:


    Seriously though shit happens.Its horrible for the people it happens to but we can protect in the best way we know how and theres still no guarantee of wellbeing.The guy at college could have got cancer and become infertile,the vaccinated child may well have been 'damaged' by something else had they not had the jab.We're all individual so no one thing is going to work for everyone.And so we make personal choices and hope we've stacked the odds in our favour.Attacking and blaming others for their choices isnt really fair when we're unwilling to sacrifice our own choices for theirs.


    What I said wasn't meant as an attack on anybody, I am sorry if anybody felt this way.


    We all have to make choices, but at the same time we all have a collective responsibility for each other, it is selfish to not shoulder some of that. Collectively as a population we need to ensure herd immunity to ensure that as a country we stay disease free as possible, that does require that sometimes we may need to go against our own wishes of not vaccinating our kids. If we were to all decide against vaccinating our kids one of two things will happen: firstly the government will choose for us, secondly we will be burying our own kids from preventable diseases. If I was to put money on what will happen, it will put it on the former rather than the latter.


    The crux of the matter is, ethically there is no choice. We can choose not to vaccinate our kids, but that means we rely on others choosing to vaccinate; which in my opinion is a tad selfish, but that is my own opinion. If everybody else chooses not to we run the risk of epidemics that put an unnecessary burden on the health service and on the economy, as a direct result the government will react and take matters out of our hands.

  • They just need to market it right, Botox is the most toxic protein known to man but women pay a fortune to have it injected into their faces, get their ad team on yhe case and we'll have 100% takeup in no time.

  • I went to a couple of lectures on immunisation and the lecturer said that the main problem in the developed countries is that we dont remember how terrible some of the diseases we now have herd immunity for used to be here. If we lose that herd immunity diseases will spread extremely quickly.

    Stats i was given estimated that 3 million people per year are saved by immunisations, and that 2.3 million children die each year from diseases that they could have been immunised against.
    Diptheria kills 1 in 20 people infected, and yet the immunisation to date has caused no known deaths.

    As for the chemicals and heavy metals in the injections, even if you ate vegan organic food for your entire life and used natural beauty products etc i bet you'd still pick up most of these just from going out thanks to being in contact with pollution, cleaning fluids, pesticides and the like. This website also doesnt state the concentrations used, or the amounts, and it hasnt said whether its a part of the finished product or if it was just used as part of a refining step (which happens quite a lot in making drugs). As for the animal products, thats personal preference i guess.

    I appriciate its personal choice for immunisations, but in my opinion the more people who've had them the better.

  • They just need to market it right, Botox is the most toxic protein known to man but women pay a fortune to have it injected into their faces, get their ad team on yhe case and we'll have 100% takeup in no time.


    If people saw the truth, I think they will have no doubt that vaccinations are far safer than the complications from the diseases they protect you against.


    Who do you think would want to have secondary infection pneumonia with a 56-86% mortality rate? or who do you think want to suffer from encephalitis which could leave you brain damaged or even give you progressive neuro-degeneration with the end result being death?


    If people saw that, then I think the take up for the MMR will shoot up.

  • My feelings about this subject come from my own experience. Before I went to uni, the mumps epidemic was predicted so I made damn sure that I was vaccinated against it. That meant that I had an MMR jab in my mid 20's. That was quite unusual at my surgery.


    To give you an idea of how irresponsible I think choosing not to vaccinate is. I personally see on the same level as getting completly wasted and then attempting to drive. When I was at uni, some of the male students in my halls had caught mumps; they were very lucky, one of the complications that an adult male can have in catching mumps is infertility. If that guy cannot have kids because somebody doesn't want to immunise their kids, he has every right to feel very pissed off.


    Also due to the low uptake of MMR, measles is now emdemic in this country.


    ok i may not agree but i respect your opinion.
    doesn;t seem to be two way tho does it :P