Compulsory I.D. Cards Scrapped for British Citizens

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  • Well i checked other posts and this didn't seem to have been posted yet!

    The new Home Secretary has revealed that National ID Cards will no longer be compulsory for british citizens!

    I think this is great news! I just saw in on the TV. Just need to work on getting it scrapped altogether now i think! :rolleyes:

  • can't say i find it that thrilling....

    Quote


    But Mr Johnson said the ID card scheme was still very much alive - despite Tory and Lib Dem calls to scrap it.
    He said the national roll-out of a voluntary scheme was being speeded-up - with London to get them a year early in 2010 and over-75s to get free cards.



    so the people airside at manchester airport dont have to have one yet. whoopee. we still get them in the next few years. i would imagine this isn't the scheme being scrapped atall. i'll bet it's just experiencing the first of many cock-ups.

    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” -Mark Twain

  • Over 75s get theirs free? Are we being made to pay for something thats compulsary?



    yup. but it's not compulsary yet so don't panic too early.

    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” -Mark Twain

  • Not scrapped, but made voluntary... that's good enough for me, so far.. Maybe i took the story the wrong way/got excited too early..

    But like i said, it's still a step in the right direction :)

  • Not scrapped, but made voluntary... that's good enough for me, so far.. Maybe i took the story the wrong way/got excited too early..

    But like i said, it's still a step in the right direction :)



    i'll be more than happy to be wrong and for you to be right, but unfortunately i believe that what's happening here is that either the idea has proved unworkable in this instant or there's some other hidden agenda. i don't believe they have, or intend to turn around on the matter.

    perhaps i'm being too cynical. i hope so.

    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” -Mark Twain

  • It will be made necessary instead of compulsory; so you wont have to have one, but you wont be able to get NHS treatment/benefits etc without one.....


    Over 75s get theirs free? Are we being made to pay for something thats compulsary?


    Just like with MOTs and Passports.....

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • andy and i have wondered about this several itimes - we have tried to envisage circumstances where the ID card may be good for travellers/boatpeople/anyone of NFA.
    we are NFA (although we do have a couple of safe addresses to use for post) and we claim no benefits and pay no council tax, although we do both pay tax and NI.
    as NFA we do not exist, we are not on an electoral roll and couldn't get credit even to borrow a tenner.

    to anyone out there without an address - have you ever tried to buy a new TV? you need to provide an address at which the tv will be used. 'but we don';t have an address' - 'then we can't sell you this tv' - why? they have to make sure each new tv sold has a license to cover it.
    also, ever tried to get a refund in am shop?
    you have to fill in your name and contact details inc postcode on a little slip. 'i'm sorry i don't have a postcode' - 'what?' - 'i don't have a postcode' - 'so where do you live'......etc etc.
    imagine if having one of these cards meant you no longer had to carry around a passport, birth cert, driving license etc just to prove you are who you say you are?
    and made it easier to be seen by a doctor or dentist? or to get a job without having to be police checked?

    i am playing devil's advocate here - i know it wouldn't work like that, but wouldn't it be great if having that card meant you could stop having to justify your very existance to people??

    abby

  • Photocard driving licences were originally optional,now you have no choice if you change address etc,as well as having to pay to renew the 'photo every ten years (£19+'photo,postage).I suppose they could just micro chip everyone at birth,althogh that could lead to babies being stolen for the chip.....

    You've either had the glimpse of life from the rim of the gold fish bowl or you're still stuck in the gravel.Some,however, are out playing with the cat.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by rambo: senior moment,memory loss ().

  • They could just have people identified through an electronic-currency based centralised financial/banking system that would function as a de-facto international ID card. Most folks would pass that with a nod......

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Coyote ().

  • You know, I bet they haven't even thought about people of NFA. Here's an extract from the explanatory notes to the Identity Cards Act 2006:

    Quote

    19 Subsections (5) to (8) give further explanation about the personal information which may be recorded on the Register and which is central to the scheme. This information is known as the "registrable facts" and includes name, date and place of birth, nationality, gender, immigration status, address, external characteristics of a person that are capable of being used for identification purposes (e.g. biometric information), and information included at a person's request. These "registrable facts" may only be amended by further primary legislation and thereby limit the scope of the information that may be held under the scheme.

    As things stand, it looks like you would need to have a permanent address to get an ID card in the first place :confused:


  • I heard this on the BBC news this morning - and it came across totally differently to the article posted on the BBC website....I heard it as the government dropping the idea of ID cards for everyone.....


    BBC muddying the waters again!

  • Seems to me that it's just spin, nothing has changed in respect to the National Database plans, all that is carrying on as per yesterday...



    Looks like yer dead right there - and the BBC was aiding and abetting ..... as usual......:wall:

  • ID cards have not been scrapped. This is just a red herring and possibly propaganda. There was never going to be a requirement that we carry them unless the scheme reached 'critical mass'. This wasn't going to happen so nu-Labour found ways of introducing it more stealthily (ie passports) Also, there is no need to carry a piece of plastic if you get registered. To see where I'm going with this Google 'project midas police'.

    To claim that ID cards are going to be voluntary is also very misleading. Our freedom of movement (gaining a passport) is going to be conditonal on registration to the NIR or whatever the database ends up being called. The next time you come across a nu-Labour scumbag ask them whether you can still have a passport if you don't want to be registered since it is a 'voluntary' system.

    Furthermore there is no convincing reason for ID cards. They will not help stop terrorism/illegal immigration/fraud or anything else. Nu-Labour's persistence in bringing them in indicates to me that there is an alternative control/surveillance state agenda here. They want everyones biometrics and profiles for better 'management' of the population. Indeed, they want it to become "3.32......an essential part of everyday life; underpinning interactions and transactions between individuals, public services and businesses and supporting people to protect their identity."
    http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/file…arding_Identity_w_opt.pdf

    For passport/student loan/benefits/bank account you will be required to be registered from a certain date. They may accept alternative ID to get their foot in the door, but from a certain date I suspect they will only accept the official ID card.

    The ID card system is truly horrifying. Firstly, you pay to sign over your identity to the state, then it will kindly licence it back to you. Your new legal identity is henceforth owned and managed by the state with you as the beneficiary. Your profile can at anytime be revealed without your consent to virtually any public authority/taxman/senior police/DWP/Home Office under very broad grounds.

    Oh yeah, Labour were quietly passing the draft orders during the MP expenses saga that extend the surveillance aspects of ID cards and the fines we will have to pay if we fail to report any change of information:

    - The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Provision of Information without Consent) Regulations 2009
    - The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Information and Code of Practice on Penalties) Order 2009
    - The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Fees) Regulations 2009


  • Oh yeah, Labour were quietly passing the draft orders during the MP expenses saga that extend the surveillance aspects of ID cards and the fines we will have to pay if we fail to report any change of information:


    No surprises there then........:whistle:

  • Your new legal identity is henceforth owned and managed by the state with you as the beneficiary.


    Your legal identity (MR JOE BLOGGS) is already owned by the state, it's just that the id card 'scheme' links your human body with that identity (ie biometric info and your medical record) and also links your financial info with that identity.


    Human animals cannot interact in a legal framework, just like any other animal. So we use our state-designated NAME (created when our births are registered) to interact with the state and other organisations.


    Currently, there is no joinder between our legal NAMES and our human bodies, except where we admit such a joinder ("Are you MR JOE BLOGGS?" - "Yes"). What the id card 'scheme' proposes is to enforce that joinder upon us.

  • In my opinion, the biggest steps towards or away from ID cards are not yet about governments discussing compulsory ID cards; they are about the ultimatums that make us feel like we are volunteering to carry ID with us.


    Personally I carry a connexions card with me. I do this because, as a perfoming musician, doing this ensures that I won't be refused entry or charged on the door at my gigs by some vigilante bouncer.


    I don't drink alcohol and I remember when they changed the rules so that bouncers are liable for the fine for letting kids into clubs rather than the bars for serving them. Now, so many places will only accept driving license or passport as ID on the door, it's depressing. I'm also seeing a lot of 'If you look under 25 you'll have to prove that you are over 18'. I've heard that in America, there are places where they have a similar system with 'under 40'. (Is there anybody on this site that can verify this?) While this has probably come about to prevent underage drinking and because of a focus on customer service, the idea being that they would rather not run the risk of offending customers by ID-ing them; rather that they'd be offended if they weren't ID'd, it has been another step towards getting people used to the idea of 'volunteering' to carry ID around.


    That said, I also usually carry around my bank card, business cards and I'm rarely without my mobile phone.


    We're quite used to carrying ID around anyway. However, there are plenty more steps that can be taken to make us carry around more information. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the government brought in an ID to say you've had no criminal convictions, required when buying certain products- knives, maybe even lighters. Then it would be an ID you have to carry around if you have had any criminal convictions as part of your parole. Before long you're getting pulled over for them to check your cycling license is in order.


    That's the way our society is approaching ID cards in my opinion.

  • Well I don't go to clubs, so I guess I won't be needing one!


    I'm sorry but the reason given for the ID card scheme was to 'stop terrorism' (although how is anyone's guess).


    Whatever the intended purpose of ID cards, I'm afraid the government's track record of 'looking after' sensitive data leaves a lot to be desired.

  • Well I don't go to clubs, so I guess I won't be needing one!


    I'm sorry but the reason given for the ID card scheme was to 'stop terrorism' (although how is anyone's guess).


    Whatever the intended purpose of ID cards, I'm afraid the government's track record of 'looking after' sensitive data leaves a lot to be desired.


    Not to mention it being none of their fecking business :D

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    Not to mention it being none of their fecking business :D


    Come now! Think about what you're saying!


    You don't think the government have the right to know who you are, where you are, who you associate with, where you buy your groceries, what you buy, how much you spend, where you live, who you live with, what car you drive, where you drive it to, where you work, what you do for a living, how many hours you work, how much you earn, what you look like, what your kids look like, what your dna looks like, what your fingerprints look like, what your iris scan looks like, what your parents did for a living, what religion you are, what your sexuality, what your medical record contains, what previous (spent) convictions you've had, what your credit report contains, how many times you visited Madame Whiplash, which school your kids go to, what the school psychiatrist has said to your kids, what your facebook page contains, how much your house is worth, how many times you've had the clap, how many people you've slept with, why you broke up with your ex, whether you've ever been treated for depression, what you've said in private emails to your friends, family and work colleagues, what you've said in private phone calls to your friends, family and work colleagues, where you spend your summers, what you tell your children, what you put in your bin bags, how much electricity and gas you use, how many miscarriages you've had, what videos you watch on youtube, what you search for on google, and how many times you've slated the identity card on public internet forums?


    Don't you think that's fairly reasonable?


    :whistle:

  • Quote

    Originally Posted by ploder
    Your new legal identity is henceforth owned and managed by the state with you as the beneficiary.


    Quote

    Your legal identity (MR JOE BLOGGS) is already owned by the state,


    I do not think this is the case. The legal identity is just a convenient way of linking your physical person to the system. I do not think any one owns it as such, which makes it all the more worrying that the state is taking this extra step by trying to bring it about in a quasi-fashion with ID cards. I tend to think of ID cards as the state 'fostering' our identities. They have no right to do this.

    My words require some explanation. When I say 'new legal identity' I mean it in the purest sense. A profile is being created on us where there was once none. A profile is more than merely the name MR JOE BLOGGS.

    Quote

    So we use our state-designated NAME (created when our births are registered)


    I do not think this term of words is helpful. The state does not 'designate' our name. We choose a name and then register it. You can call yourself whatever you like. However, for the purposes of interaction with the state you choose an official identity.

    Quote

    What the id card 'scheme' proposes is to enforce that joinder upon us.


    Yes, I agree. However, I would add that the joinder is going to be enforced so that virtually any aspect of our lives can be recorded and data-mined by the state. They are not honest about what schemes such as ID cards are for: collection of information for behavioural analysis (algorythms that can automatically flag up 'suspicious behaviour') But to do this you need everyone's biometrics in a database.

    This is a very big shift in the relationship between the state and the individual. They know this, which is why they downplay things such as the reporting obligations, the amount of info that can be taken and the surveillance aspects.

    Quote

    In my opinion, the biggest steps towards or away from ID cards are not yet about governments discussing compulsory ID cards; they are about the ultimatums that make us feel like we are volunteering to carry ID with us.


    Yes, they are very crafty in that way. They know people won't go for it voluntarily so they promote it and consider ways of making our lives hell unless we have one. They can then stand back with a smug grin on their faces and say "people got one voluntarily. That proves we were right and people wanted ID cards".

  • Of course, the Conservatives are saying they will scrap the scheme....and what are the chances of Brown et al getting back in at the next election?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Did anyone else not catch this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8175139.stm


    Quote

    Home Secretary Alan Johnson has unveiled the final design of the controversial national identity card.
    The card will be offered to members of the public in the Greater Manchester area from the end of this year.
    Ministers plan to launch the £30 biometric ID card nationwide in 2011 or 2012 - but it will not be compulsory.

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."