Good cops bad cops

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  • I don't hate the Police. How can I hate the people who are the thin blue line that protects me... but who's there to protect me when they're the ones crossing the line?


    At the end of all of this, I have to accept that Police are merely a reflection of the society we have all created, so what goes on outside the service, can if unchecked, go on inside. I hope that there is a re-think of some of the strategies used. I hope that there are guidelines provided to define the difference between potential 'terror' threats and the rights and liberties of people to speak and live freely. At the moment, the changes have been so quick and in such a free-for-all, that it's created an environment where the Police either dont understand the very laws they're supposed to work within or they are using them as another tool of control; either way, it's not working. I've seen a lot of anger, thankfully not so much on this site, but certainly out there and I don't much like it. Anger fuels anger and I for one don't like feeling that way.

  • Quote from Savingwhales

    the Police either dont understand the very laws they're supposed to work within or they are using them as another tool of control


    I've had a lot of discussions over the past couple of years on here with James,our resident copper.And hes repeatedly maintained that its *us* who dont understand the laws.For example,I thought the police were trained in conflict resolution,theyre not,theyre trained in escalation and have the laws to back them on that.Our expectations of the police seem to be false to begin with and that possibly needs more exposure so we know what the actual baseline truth is.

  • For example,I thought the police were trained in conflict resolution,theyre not,theyre trained in escalation and have the laws to back them on that.


    Strange you should say that - I'm sort of addicted to Street Wars and other police 'reality' programmes and often wonder why they keep shouting 'calm down' at the tops of their voices at people who are trying to do just that....it does seem to escalate the situation and maybe that's the way they can get their arrests.


    Quote from Savingwhales

    At the moment, the changes have been so quick and in such a free-for-all, that it's created an environment where the Police either dont understand the very laws they're supposed to work within or they are using them as another tool of control; either way, it's not working.


    I'm sure everyone's lost count of the new rules and regulations this government has introduced...no wonder people are confused.......:wall:

  • I admit to watching those progs also. The police love it all on them. Its all screaming, shouting and a whole bag of planted drugs. I cant stand the whiny muppet thaty narrates behind it. You can tell he was bullied at school

    "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. You know you're going to get it, but it's going to be rough."

  • Can i just derail this thread slightly and ask everyone to post names of PR people please? Lets see how many we can come up with. :)


    Ps...no googleing

  • What are PR people?
    Am I being thick? :S


    I *think* the escalation stuff is a power/control thing..as in the cops are trained to always be one higher in the conflict..and knowing that gives people the chance to respond differently rather than expecting the cops to when theyre trained not to.


    Wheres James anyway?Hes usually all over threads like this..

    The post was edited 1 time, last by medusa: My fuckin inability to notice lack of N's till its posted,grr ().

  • What are PR people?
    Am I being thick? :S


    Public Relations...like Max Clifford.


    He's the ghostbusters of the meedja....who you gonna call when you've got 50 journos camped outside your house, constantly ringing you, tracking down family, friends, anyone remotely connected to you?


    Max Clifford. He's the ONLY name that we all know.


    Nobody mentions the stuff he does behind the scenes...like this, taken from another forum...


    Quote

    I've never said this before but. He is not all that he seems; he took on the 7/7 survivors and families on the first anniversary for nothing, without publicity. Before, I was getting up at 4am and working til 2am, and trying not to lose my job, taking up to 6 calls an hour from UK and international media, because I had a blog, and was therefore visible, and had somehow become the unpaid press officer and first point of contact of any journo wanting a 7/7 victim interview. I had a breakdown, he stepped in, and put 4 full time members of staff on it.



    He negotiated a decent wheel chair for a double amputee, he helped people get compensation, and he protected those who did not want to speak, held the firestorm at bay, and never said a word or asked for anything. He gave me and the families over GBP100, 000 of representation for nothing.


    Maybe not the demon that the papers (oh yeah, who hate him coz he's FUCKING GOOD AT HIS JOB!) make out, ey? ;)

  • Quote from Shazaaym!

    Public Relations...like Max Clifford.


    I thought thats what you meant..but am completely confused as to what thats got to do with anything? PR people do a lot of *good* stuff too,was that in doubt?

  • I thought thats what you meant..but am completely confused as to what thats got to do with anything? PR people do a lot of *good* stuff too,was that in doubt?


    Yeah - I'm still trying to work out how Mr. Clifford found his way here too........maybe he's a 'special constable' in his spare time........

  • I admit to watching those progs also. The police love it all on them. Its all screaming, shouting and a whole bag of planted drugs. I cant stand the whiny muppet thaty narrates behind it. You can tell he was bullied at school





    street wars police on tv show off so much only when there is a cameraman with them,as for alan or ian boardman(narrator)he makes it sound like he`s a pro.what about usa police(i suppose someone would say they`re too violent.i had applied for the police but ended up with the ambulance service:waves::waves:

  • Oooooh yes....there was a bit about her on the radio this morning and her publicity seeking ..........:eek:


    All the usual shite was in the papers man...'accusations' of shoplifting (not convictions you'll notice!), ex-junkie, squatter (how many squatters do you know who get £50pw HB? :rolleyes: ) exceteraaaaa


    It's bollox...all designed to get peoples knees jerking.

  • All the usual shite was in the papers man...'accusations' of shoplifting (not convictions you'll notice!), ex-junkie, squatter (how many squatters do you know who get £50pw HB? :rolleyes: ) exceteraaaaa


    It's bollox...all designed to get peoples knees jerking.


    Funny but I didn't realise who the woman was til now (just googled the story!)... basically I know her! Yes she did have a drug problem... so fooking what? She is over that and is a great woman, I met her while we were training to be welfare rights advisors... top lass!


  • I can't believe this comment!


    You do realise that she was at a PEACEFUL memorial FOR Iain Tomlinson, on April 2nd, don't you? He died as a result of police tactics, yet here they are the very next day, still at it!


    She reacted to a guy being pushed around by the police, pushed to the ground by the throat when he was trying to pick up his paper. Now, i dunno about you, but when i've seen people pushed around unfairly in the past, in whatever situation, my automatic reaction is to go 'oi, what are you doing that for?'...which is all she did! And got a kevlar gloved backhander off a guy who was a good 1 1/2 feet taller than her, built like a brick shithouse and TRAINED TO DEAL WITH RIOT SITUATIONS. And you're here saying that the 'silly bint' more or less asked for it? Well maybe people SHOULD stick their beaks in MORE when they see someone getting uncalled for grief in the street, not less! Ever heard that advice that if you're getting sexually assaulted that you should shout 'fire' instead of 'rape' coz you're more likely to get a response? THAT'S the kind of world we're living in, and attitudes like that fucking perpetuate it.


    Oh, and she didn't exactly go running to the papers now, did she? The story only broke a good 12 days later.


    Get back behind yer net curtain. FFS.

  • Funny but I didn't realise who the woman was til now (just googled the story!)... basically I know her! Yes she did have a drug problem... so fooking what? She is over that and is a great woman, I met her while we were training to be welfare rights advisors... top lass!


    Innit. Gawd fucking help you if you ever have a problem in your life, then find yourself in the middle of a police scandal x amount of years later.


    Tried and convicted before you've had yer cornflakes.

  • And got a kevlar gloved backhander off a guy who was a good 1 1/2 feet taller than her, built like a brick shithouse and TRAINED TO DEAL WITH RIOT SITUATIONS.


    I wasn't there so I can only comment on what I saw on the news and in the press - and it looked pretty horrific.......shows the bad cop image at it's worse and, hopefully, the guy will be sorted......not holding my breath though.


    However - bad cop has been well discussed in many other posts and the point of this one is to show that - despite all we read to the contrary - the bulk of cops are pretty reasonable types doing a not very pleasant job......without them the country would soon be over run with criminals and would degenerate into anarchy.
    Who else would want a job where you are expected to keep peace and order in, for instance, an anti police demonstration.....I bloody wouldn't that's a fact......

  • However - bad cop has been well discussed in many other posts and the point of this one is to show that - despite all we read to the contrary - the bulk of cops are pretty reasonable types doing a not very pleasant job......


    Totally, I have met some really nice police people... but I have also met my fair share of bastard police people too... And have found that the distinction between the two is usually pretty easy to make.... ordinary pc's are generally ok... but training them to be riot police somehow (probably the training) into violent thugs... no different really from someone who would willing beat someone for fun.. and that is what a lot of people are reacting against... ;)




    Who else would want a job where you are expected to keep peace and order in, for instance, an anti police demonstration.....I bloody wouldn't that's a fact......


    But they do sign up voulantarily... and wouldn't a good police person realise that elements of the police force are becoming out of control and giving them all a bad name... Most police people realise that protests such as the one happening today is intended to be a PEACEFUL demo.... everyone I have spoken with all agree that we cannot let any element within the crowd cause trouble or be violent towards the police.. as that would be counter-productive... And if the demo is allowed to march... and then disperse then the police really have nothing to worry about... ;)

  • Totally, I have met some really nice police people... but I have also met my fair share of bastard police people too... And have found that the distinction between the two is usually pretty easy to make.... ordinary pc's are generally ok... but training them to be riot police somehow (probably the training) into violent thugs... no different really from someone who would willing beat someone for fun.. and that is what a lot of people are reacting against... ;)


    I've known a fair few number of coppers, from DCI to "Specials", and the majority get off on a kind of "Blood lust" mentality when beating up "scrotes".... Social hierarchy breeds elitism almost without exception, and elitism breeds both insecurity and dehumanising.

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Coyote: "blood lust" is more accurate than "fight club" ().

  • There's an article on the local paper about 3 cops bitten by a man and were then told by the man that he has aids. Who would do that job?

  • ordinary pc's are generally ok... but training them to be riot police somehow (probably the training) into violent thugs... no different really from someone who would willing beat someone for fun.. and that is what a lot of people are reacting against... ;)


    I bloody well hope they don't end up like the police in other countries who are a site worse, but the gap's closing rapidly..........:eek:


    Quote from Savingwhales

    There's an article on the local paper about 3 cops bitten by a man and were then told by the man that he has aids. Who would do that job?


    Exactly........


    One policeman friend of ours....who was bloody good at his job....was driven to a nervous breakdown because he was too honest for his own good and worried about making the slightest error and getting reported to his superiors by members of the public.

  • Hmmmm - bit worrying.
    I was talking to an elderly neighbour earlier.....she went out shopping the other morning and while she was away a couple of police cars turned up outside her house and the police started hammering on the door. Neighbours who tried to find out what it was about were told in no uncertain terms to stay inside.


    The only occupant at the time was the woman's husband who is 90 and blind - she locks him in when she's out so he doesn't wander. They hammered on the door and eventually he convinced them to go round the back where they hammered the back door demanding entry, fortunately he had a back door key.


    It seems some woman had been using their address as a cover for her activities and, while I understand they have a job to do, a simple check of the registor of electors would have told them all they needed to know


    Not impressed and need to have a word with our local boys in blue as it falls within my NAG area.



    .

  • Its true that there are good police, even in the Met, however, I remember going on numerous demonstrations throughout the nineties and hearing general banter to the effect that the London anarchists and the met often used to look forward to demonstrations so that they could have a good ruck.


    Its not the Met per se, its the animals they choose to put in the front line at demonstrations. They have to rethink their policy on policing demonstrations, because if they don't they'll just carry on maintaining a reputation for being just a load of thugs.


  • Its not the Met per se, its the animals they choose to put in the front line at demonstrations. They have to rethink their policy on policing demonstrations, because if they don't they'll just carry on maintaining a reputation for being just a load of thugs.


    Didn't it used to be the SPG but they abandoned that because they were a load of thugs so they reformed it as something else....oh well not a lot changed then....


    It looks like this last fiasco had raised loads of public concerns....because, according to one report I read, a lot more of the 'middle classes' were involved and they have a bit more voice.


  • .... It looks like this last fiasco had raised loads of public concerns....because, according to one report I read, a lot more of the 'middle classes' were involved and they have a bit more voice.


    Probably hence this then...


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/poli…/ipcc-police-g20-protests


    Quote:


    "Nick Hardwick, chair of the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), called for a national debate over how police maintain public order and demanded much tougher political accountability, warning that police should remember they were "the servants not the masters" of the people".


  • Yep - it was something in a similar vein in the Independent


    One other quote caught my eye


    Quote:


    "Hardwick also revealed that the widespread use of mobile phones by protesters to take photographs and video footage of the clashes was providing invaluable evidence."


    What's the betting there'll be orders to the mobile phone companies to turn off their networks on demo days if this sort of evidence becomes too prevalent


    As soon as I posted that I thought durrrrr - it doesn't need the network to store vids in your phone

    I was always taught to respect my elders but it keeps getting harder to find one.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Stardusts Dad: Being stupid! ().



  • What's the betting there'll be orders to the mobile phone companies to turn off their networks on demo days if this sort of evidence becomes too prevalent



    fortunately the camera and video on phones still work even when you dont have signal. :D

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