Police Brutality (and possibly murder) on the streets of London???

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  • From what I saw the crowd were really upbeat and non confrontational... I was also watching it live (grr bloody dissertation.. I wish I had been there)... and from what I saw people only got violent after seeing bankers wave £10 notes at them from the buildings they were working in and then when the police cordoned them in... started beating them (even protesters who were making a point of showing their peaceful intentions)... Sorry but have you ever been in a situation like that... It is hard to keep your cool when you are being detained in an area for no other reason than peacefully protesting... The police as usual has caused yet more trouble at a peaceful demo!!

    I went on the Put People First march on Saturday... It was strange seeing no riot police at the demo... But it really brought home this message... 35,000 people at a demo... no riot police = NO TROUBLE! ;)


    Yes i've been in a situation like that. I also said that i wasn't defending them. I'm not sitting here thinking they're all sweetness and light, nor am i thinking some of the protesters were sweetness and light either. I do notice that some have a shorter fuse than others. It takes very little to get some folks to start gobbing off and heightening hostility, whereas others it takes a lot more. Thats people for you, whatever side you take :)

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  • Yes i've been in a situation like that. I also said that i wasn't defending them. I'm not sitting here thinking they're all sweetness and light, nor am i thinking some of the protesters were sweetness and light either. I do notice that some have a shorter fuse than others. It takes very little to get some folks to start gobbing off and heightening hostility, whereas others it takes a lot more. Thats people for you, whatever side you take :)


    Very true, but I still feel that the police response in this (and many other) demos is a little out of proportion.. which then leads more people within the crowd to become hostile and violent.. kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy... the police treat all protesters like the small core of protesters there who are intent on causing trouble... Which then leads to the crowd becoming more like the trouble makers... but the police force know this... it is not rocket science.. but do you think they take any notice? Personally I think the police (in generals) response to demonstrators is slightly more complex than some policemen simply having a short fuse... :)

  • Very true, but I still feel that the police response in this (and many other) demos is a little out of proportion.. which then leads more people within the crowd to become hostile and violent.. kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy... the police treat all protesters like the small core of protesters there who are intent on causing trouble... Which then leads to the crowd becoming more like the trouble makers... but the police force know this... it is not rocket science.. but do you think they take any notice? Personally I think the police (in generals) response to demonstrators is slightly more complex than some policemen simply having a short fuse... :)


    You have absolutely got very valid points, i do agree with you, the sound of one hand clapping makes no noise for sure. But the police (in this circumstance) couldn't be seen to be doing less, there are all the major political world leaders there, there always was going to be heightened security around the city...and then some (lol, hubby has just pointed out that half of the protesters were probably plain clothes MI5, DGSE, CIA etc :D ) There are of course strategies for how protesters are handled and contained, and these tactics are going to be employed for whoever casts the first stone.. or in this case pound note.
    The thing is, can they afford to not take notice of this? What if it all kicked off regardless? There is always some fuckwittage knocking around. I'm not happy with seeing what the police did, thinking it was necessary, nor am i happy with seeing the group of tossers giving the bbc an excuse to portray all the protesters in the same negative light. All in all, demos are volatile. Anyone who wants to go should always go prepared to see violence at some point.

  • I'm not quite sure why some of you seem to get so wound up by a bit of police baton swinging..... perhaps you would prefer our police to use the tactics deployed by many of their European counterparts and start using teargas and rubber bullets....... ;)

    We are old, we are young, we are in this together... New Model Army....they still going?

  • Simply because of the needless violence and winding up of protesters.


    There'll always be worse behaviour by the Police somewhere in the World, but still don't feel like saying "ohh thankyou kindly sir for just hitting me with a truncheon":D

  • I'm not quite sure why some of you seem to get so wound up by a bit of police baton swinging..... perhaps you would prefer our police to use the tactics deployed by many of their European counterparts and start using teargas and rubber bullets....... ;)


    Maybe because the police use their batons before there is any real trouble... and also at the same time holding people in a very small area... as far as I am aware the measures that our European counterparts use are only used when there is a full blown riot happening... ;)

  • ..... the police use their batons before there is any real trouble.......



    Oh please I aint here to defend every action the police make but if you think the police are gonna stand there whilst protesters throw stuff without replying you are dreaming...... ;)


    and define "real trouble"...... ;) damage to property? And if you are there for peaceful protest why do so many have their faces covered? Plenty of aggression to see in these clips on both sides.....


    [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqQaRafFGbI']YouTube - Riot Cops Go In As G20 Protesters Storm Banks[/ame]


    [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cXqYN7IqQc']YouTube - Policemen Hurt As Protest G20 Heats Up[/ame]


    [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=343bCGrM3nU']YouTube - More Violence: G20 London Protests Go On[/ame]



    So what did the protests achieve......... not a lot...... damage, injury, a massive police bill which Londoners will find added to their council tax, and as far as the enviromental side goes congratulations to the protesters who trampled all the daffidols...... :rolleyes::hippy:

    We are old, we are young, we are in this together... New Model Army....they still going?


  • Do please shut up and carry on reading the Daily Mail

  • Oh please I aint here to defend every action the police make but if you think the police are gonna stand there whilst protesters throw stuff without replying you are dreaming...... ;)


    I'm not questioning the use of batons... I am well aware that the use of them is inevitable during most demos... but I am questioning the kettling and rushing tactics the police of today seems so fond of using... ;)



    Violence as defined as... Damage that occurs outside of a demo... To persons not part of the demo... This gives a very good overview of what is recognized as being serious damage during a riot... As to why a lot of protesters have their face covered during demos... that is pretty easy... are you aware of Project Creep? ;)


    I am not saying that some protesters are violent... but this violence is usually directed at certain targets... and usually only occurs after the police has herded the demo into a stoopidly small area...



    So what did the protests achieve......... not a lot...... damage, injury, a massive police bill which Londoners will find added to their council tax, and as far as the enviromental side goes congratulations to the protesters who trampled all the daffidols...... :rolleyes::hippy:


    Ok so what would have the protests achieved if the police had not turned a peaceful demo into a riot... it would have shown the authorities that demos can be peacful... it would have shown certain members of our society that we do still live in a country where you can protest (psst that is part of living in a democracy)... Loads of people who wouldn't normally attend this kind of thing were there on tuesday... do you not think that their experience would have changed them in any way... Don't you think that the protsters higlighted just how little the G20 summit is going to change things...


    It is bad that daffodils got harmed while people were speaking out against bankers bonuses.. the system that is fooking us all over.. wars that are being fought over oil... runways being built that are helping destroy our ecology... But at the end of that can be easily fixed... can the same be said about what those peole were demonstrating about? :rolleyes:

  • Ok so what would have the protests achieved if the police had not turned a peaceful demo into a riot........


    Oh it was the police that started smashing windows and throwing stuff....:damn:


    And it may well had stayed peaceful had the protesters not been outnumbered by camaramen/tv crews.....:whistle:




    See you took my first post wrong ..... it was intended as a little bit of irony that all the protesters had to face was a bit of wood rather than gas/bullets... ;) which shows how lucky we are to be able to protest in this country against the system which is err letting us protest like that....:D :hippy:

    We are old, we are young, we are in this together... New Model Army....they still going?

  • Oh it was the police that started smashing windows and throwing stuff....:damn:


    I never said that it was, maybe you should read my posts properly before you try being sarcastic..:whistle:
    [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bywLW4ixYg&feature=related']YouTube - G20 London UPDATE! 2.49pm 01/04/2009[/ame]


    [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgkGs4uqhY8&feature=related']YouTube - G20 protests London, riot police deployed 1st April 2009 - Obama arrives in the UK[/ame]




    See you took my first post wrong ..... it was intended as a little bit of irony that all the protesters had to face was a bit of wood rather than gas/bullets... ;) which shows how lucky we are to be able to protest in this country against the system which is err letting us protest like that....:D :hippy:


    You see if you had said that after the first time I 'got it wrong' I would be more likely to believe you... ;)

  • what would have the protests achieved if the police had not turned a peaceful demo into a riot... it would have shown the authorities that demos can be peacful...


    Does it not take two to tango?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • I'm not quite sure why some of you seem to get so wound up by a bit of police baton swinging..... perhaps you would prefer our police to use the tactics deployed by many of their European counterparts and start using teargas and rubber bullets....... ;)


    Because it's still violence, regardless of the method used.

  • And if you are there for peaceful protest why do so many have their faces covered?


    Because the police and the security services have been known to infiltrate crowds of protestors in order to take photographs and video of participants. Their images are then kept on file. I've never vandalized someone else's property and I would never behave violently towards anyone- least of all a bloke in a uniform weilding a big stick- but whenever I've taken part in a protest I have always kept my face covered as much as possible. Not because I intend to cause trouble, but because I don't particuarly fancy having my photo in a file somewhere with "possible links to terrorist organizations" added as a caption.

  • Does it not take two to tango?


    I think the point is that there would not have been a riot/window smashing if the demonstrators had not been penned in the same area for hours on end...
    :wall:

  • I think the point is that there would not have been a riot/window smashing if the demonstrators had not been penned in the same area for hours on end...
    :wall:


    Somehow, I doubt that. There is always some element looking to "kick off" in (big) protests....:whistle:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Coyote: "(big)" added ().

  • Somehow, I doubt that. There is always some element looking to "kick off" in protests....:whistle:


    Yes there is... but the point you and a lot of other people are missing is that this small core of trouble makers are usually shunned by the crowd... it is not until the police treat all crowd members like the small core of trouble makers that you see a whole crowd start causing trouble... it is not rocket science... I think the term is 'self-fulfilling prophecy'... :whistle:

  • Yes there is... but the point you and a lot of other people are missing is that this small core of trouble makers are usually shunned by the crowd... it is not until the police treat all crowd members like the small core of trouble makers that you see a whole crowd start causing trouble... it is not rocket science... I think the term is 'self-fulfilling prophecy'... :whistle:


    Why, I wonder, was there non of this on the other 2 protest days?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."


  • Tempered steel actually, not wood.


    D'ya not think that it's funny that the protesters were herded down the road where the RBS was....and that it was the only bank that wasn't boarded up? Also the bank that Sir Fred was in charge of, y'know, that bloke who's been accused of ignoring the warnings of the (then) impending financial trouble that we find ourselves in?


    The coincidences just keep piling up, don't they? ;)

  • Why, I wonder, was there non of this on the other 2 protest days?


    Well on Saturday there was no riot police present... At all.. we weren't kettled or rushed... but allowed to march to our destination... In other words we were treated like peaceful protesters... not criminals... ;)


    On Wednesday there was trouble... Clicky... Just because it wasn't reported it doesn't mean it didn't happen... I wonder why there was very little media coverage of that incident... :whistle:


    *EDIT* Found this footage shot during the memorial for the guy who died during Tuesdays demo...
    [ame='http://tr.youtube.com/watch?v=St596jXUR68&feature=channel_page']YouTube - G20 Protest London - Mounted Police move on dead protester memorial[/ame]


  • :mad:

  • I think the point is that there would not have been a riot/window smashing if the demonstrators had not been penned in the same area for hours on end...
    :wall:


    Yeah cos its not like the previous G20 (G8 or whatever they used to be) meetings ever attracted violent protests did they......;)

    We are old, we are young, we are in this together... New Model Army....they still going?

  • Yeah cos its not like the previous G20 (G8 or whatever they used to be) meetings ever attracted violent protests did they......;)


    So explain why the G20 demo on Saturday did not get violent then... I was on that demo I saw all sorts of anarchists types there... you know the ones that wear black scarves over their faces... But they did not make any trouble at all... ;)

  • So explain why the G20 demo on Saturday did not get violent then... I was on that demo I saw all sorts of anarchists types there... you know the ones that wear black scarves over their faces... But they did not make any trouble at all... ;)


    Obviously you have a calming effect on the world........ :D :hippy:

    We are old, we are young, we are in this together... New Model Army....they still going?

  • Aah now its a conspiracy is it........:tinfoil::whistle:



    I give in....... if you want to be in the front line of a protest facing police wear a builders hard hat........:D


    I wouldn't call organised police tactics a conspiracy, no. Not in that sense. I will say that there needed to be some headlines generated to justify the expense tho.

  • I wouldn't call organised police tactics a conspiracy, no. Not in that sense. I will say that there needed to be some headlines generated to justify the expense tho.


    Exactly... The police had spent fook knows how much making sure that 5,000 police people were on the streets on Tuesday... if there had been no trouble would the general public have supported the police wasting money in such a way... ;)


    I think it is pretty obvious that the police were intent on winding up certain types of protester even before the demo started!!


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…993139.ece?Submitted=true