Is it just me or does the economic downturn have its good points too?

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  • So I've been noticing lately, this is a great opportunity to force government into a green corner. It's giving us all a chance to be the green we wanna be. Plus with oil coming to its peak it's only a matter of time before it all goes back to the way we like things. Honest and natural.


    Just something to throw out there! By all means tell me the real deal.

  • Give over...it costs serious money to be green in any way that makes a difference. Not on a personal scale, but on an implementational(is that even a word? It is now!) scale it does.


    Ain't gonna happoen when there's more money to be made from big business.

  • Not sure what people sometimes mean by Green. It seems to involve some romantic vision of the past when good folks spent 14 hours a day working the fields. To "save the planet" will need a dramatic reduction in the human population.

  • I'm struggling to find any good points in all honesty... I was ranting about this recession back before they even admitted to man in the street having to tighten his belt... thats because (as with any economic downturn) its the poorest who suffer the hardest the quickest....green my arse - smacks of "dig for England" if you ask me....

  • Ah yes a dramatic reduction in population to save the planet ! It's happening already so that us good "Citizens" (tongue in cheek) can live in the style and comfort we are used to. Al gore and the "Climate change movement just another hoodwink whats it going to be next euthanasia ? Oh yeah there are already trying to implement this... As Henry Kissinger quoted its time to do something about the useless eaters.....Pah pah

  • Dirty, polluting, technologies are cheap. Clean, sustainable technologies are expensive. In a recession, governments (and people) are all about cheap. Organic food production is already taking a big hit. My local council has just cut back its planned expansion of kerbside recycling collection. Expect "green" to fall right off the agenda.

  • Just commenting on the title of this thread and I think the current state of things is having a positive impact on people being more aware of their consuming.
    On another forum I frequent one person was saying that since the rise in the electricity over here they are making sure that they turn all unused appliances off, making sure things are not left on stand-by, putting an extra jumper on instead of turning the heating up, only filling the kettle with the amount of water to be used etc etc. Lots of little things like that but they all add up and to be honest - it's things we should be doing anyway.

  • ooh a good point if you work in tourism industry - people assume holidays in uk are cheaper and go for that (even when they are not necessarily) - but tourism companies in uk are hopefully gonna be doing well (hopefully from their point of view anyway) :)

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • we are in a period of transition..everyone selling stuff off cheap and having less cash. after this rebalance there will be less choice and everything will be more expensive. so yes it could be that the world will end up less consumerist. However not sure I can see much hope elsewhere.

  • I read recently that sales of home-making crafty stuf has gone up. So knitting had gone up about40% I think and sewing machine sales had risen dramatically too. I think that cheapness comes with people being more self-sufficient. Isn't that what happened in the second world war and in the wall-street crash?

  • So I've been noticing lately, this is a great opportunity to force government into a green corner. It's giving us all a chance to be the green we wanna be. Plus with oil coming to its peak it's only a matter of time before it all goes back to the way we like things. Honest and natural.


    Just something to throw out there! By all means tell me the real deal.


    Don't imagine that peak oil is necessarily going to be nice. That will only be true if we achieve a smooth transition either to a more simple society or to sustainable technology.


    But if the worst case scenario holds true, then suddenly the price of oil shoots up, this causes panic on the stock markets which then leads to a sudden global economic crash. There's only food for one day in our supermarkets once the trucks stop rolling, so it won't be long before we see food riots, the police and the army won't be able to control all the population all the time, therefore the whole thing becomes ugly and tribal.


    This scenario is unlikely but still possible. Its based on rocketing oil prices over a very short period of time. OPEC countries suddenly admitting that they've been lying about how much oil reserves they have left, for example, might do it.


    A worst case peak oil scenario is not a nice one, so probably best not to get too romantic about it.
    :rolleyes:

  • Not sure what people sometimes mean by Green. It seems to involve some romantic vision of the past when good folks spent 14 hours a day working the fields. To "save the planet" will need a dramatic reduction in the human population.


    Reading pastoral novels will sometimes give one a nice idyllic idea of the countryside in older days, but I would suggest reading Tess of the D'Urbevilles, and then you'll see where that kind of pastoral idealism ends up.


    Scrabbling around in a potato field for hours in the pouring rain in winter is not my idea of fun.


  • But if the worst case scenario holds true, then suddenly the price of oil shoots up, this causes panic on the stock markets which then leads to a sudden global economic crash.


    Sounds familiar. :whistle:


    It's entirely possible that this has already happened. Peak oil isn't a one-way street - a series of mini-crashes would fit the bill. Oil price rises, markets crash or go into recession, oil price comes down because demand falls unchoking the supply-side, markets recover, demand increases, demand outstrips supply again... repeat and rinse until you hit the final downwards curve where demand can't meet supply even when it's crippled by recession.



    we are in a period of transition..everyone selling stuff off cheap and having less cash. after this rebalance there will be less choice and everything will be more expensive.

    And then everything returns to normal. Without some external factor, the cycle will just repeat itself. Sadly, peak oil might be our best bet in the long run.

  • Sounds familiar. :whistle:


    And then everything returns to normal. Without some external factor, the cycle will just repeat itself. Sadly, peak oil might be our best bet in the long run.


    Yes, if the downturn is gradual. If we're not in it now, we will be shortly. Might as well get used to all this.
    :whistle:

  • On another tack: the government's way of tackling the crisis has been to reduce interest rates to almost nothing - which is good for people who owe money such as home-owners with mortgages, bad for people with savings. So home-owning yuppies are generally likely to be doing better than pensioners for example.

  • On another tack: the government's way of tackling the crisis has been to reduce interest rates to almost nothing - which is good for people who owe money such as home-owners with mortgages, bad for people with savings. So home-owning yuppies are generally likely to be doing better than pensioners for example.


    The intention being I suppose to encourage spending and stimulate the property market.


    Why don't they (baited breath) do something useful, like invest in greening the economy? New energy systems, new public transport system, diversification away from environmentally damaging systems etc


    ... reason of course is that the whole system we live under is dominated by those same corporations that caused the credit crunch, and thus the recession, in the first place.


    Ho Hum, business as usual...
    :whistle:

  • I agree with the person who started this thread... this recession stuff has to be a good thing....ok with lots of crap bits....but maybe things have to get worst before they get better.
    When i think about what motivates me to change its always the same answer (and its the same i think for all compulsive behaviour)
    I will only change my ways, my bad habits, when the negative outcome out weighs the benefits.
    Whilst it's still working for me why should I change?
    If I still think I can get away with it I will!!!
    Maybe we are only going to look at our addiction to fossil fuels, consumerism, instant gratification .... etc when the negative result of this kind of behaviour is in our faces!
    Let's just hope we catch on before we really fuck up.

  • apparently everywhere in world will be going up again economy wise next year.. except us... haha! not really sure why but there you go
    we could all move to calais for a year or two

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting