Education...

Welcome to UKHIppy2764@2x.png

UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • Quote from Fibi


    i think all schools/parents should be more like this... would save alot of problems!


    So much for "not preaching about what other people should be doing" eh?


    Oh for sod's sake, I'm out too, crikey.


    Next thread!

  • you completely missed my point Oya so i will make it again

    I think that people should feel there are other options than the generic school system, in which to raise their children

    i think more people should be aware of different ideas methods, so that they can make a more educated decision on what is right for their child

    i am not suggesting everyone does it my way, only that everyone should be made aware that there are other ways

  • Yes , i would say that ' Education Otherwise " has minuses as well as pluses like many things in life .
    i have ' Flagged E.O. " up on this Thread to let others know that such an Option does exist if you feel that your child is not getting on at School !


    Also the E.O. Community is growing and local groups offering more activities for families .

  • Quote from Fibi

    Hey - how did he cope with Homeschooling tutors? that sounds like an expensive option but for some directed study once or twice a week it might not be too bad

    did he react well to them? and how was it spending half the time in school and half out, was that okay with the school?? did his social status decline or have any side effects?



    Homeschooling tutors were sent and paid for by local authority, at one point it is for half hour twice a week (that was all he could cope with)
    he also went to the TLC unit (next to the pupil referal unit but for sick kids) But the aim was to intergrate him back into school so he stayed on school register but with medical reports the school had to agree to what ever attendance he could make.

    The bigest detriment was to his "social status" he kept being asked if he was new to the school and found it hard to maintain friendships outside of school.
    Scouts have been brilliant and inclusive

    He has been to school full time for only 3 months in 4 years and currently is going full time two days a week and parttime for the rest of the week and he continues to recover from ME. GCSEs next June be interesting to see how well he does

  • Sorry to hear of your problems Winter, much respect to your mummy self xxxx

    hmmm, so again the biggest problem seems to stem from the lack of social interaction with other children - this is what i am most concerned about when it comes to home schooling.

    thank you so much for your input, and i hope that his ME doesnt restrict him too much in the future xxx

  • Quote from Fibi



    hmmm, so again the biggest problem seems to stem from the lack of social interaction with other children - this is what i am most concerned about when it comes to home schooling.



    I have to agree with you about home schooling and the lack of social interaction with other children. I have seen many children, who have been home schooled, who were really comfortable interacting with adults but unable to spend anytime "playing" with other children - it seemed to be an inability to deal with disagreements or negiotiate with other kids or cope with the give and take.

  • Regarding social skills and home schooling, I was aware of parents in one area who got together and created their own school by joining forces (and finances) and hiring some teachers for their kids to be home-schooled, but in a less isolated fashion. Worked pretty well and the parents and teachers worked together on what they felt would be most important in their children's education.


    I often heard about kids in the States who were home-schooled and got full scholarships to some of the best universities in the US, so there are advantages to that one-on-one that home schooling can give. However, a relative of mine home schooled her children and two of her three children are very awkward in social settings - very awkward to the point of being almost uncomfortable to talk to or even watch. So, there is that downside. Most of the home schoolers in the States have cooperatives where all the children in an area will meet for physical education or art or music. They also make sure to have weekly gatherings to simply meet and greet.


    My daughter attended a Montessori school in the States and I would recommend that above all others. My daughter thrived in that school and we only took her out because we moved. Montessori, to me at least, is the best of all worlds. Parents have a real say in what happens and there are no "years" or "grades" - students move ahead at their own pace and not restricted by age or ability.


    It is a tough area - as parents we want only the best for our children and can often see where state schools fail because of guidelines or curriculum or poor teaching. When I was teaching in that little private school, I started working with the kindergarten children. One in particular was very concerning. While the others were learning spelling and simply maths (at ages 4 and 5), he couldn't even spell his own name. I called the school psychologist for the county and she was appalled that I was teaching the children spelling and maths at such a young age. Yet these kids, with the exception of this one kid, were eating it up. They couldn't get enough. I think "educators" often underestimate the intellectual abilities of children.

  • however, i know plenty of kids who have had crazy social issues crop up because of school.

    i think some kids are right for it, and some are not, simple as.

    See as much as i like the idea of no years and no grades, i also think they are a benificial part of the system, i wouldnt want to remove my children from that altogether, but perhaps find a more rounded education where they could feel that grade werent the ONLY thing they were working towards.

  • Quote from Fibi

    however, i know plenty of kids who have had crazy social issues crop up because of school.

    i think some kids are right for it, and some are not, simple as.

    See as much as i like the idea of no years and no grades, i also think they are a benificial part of the system, i wouldnt want to remove my children from that altogether, but perhaps find a more rounded education where they could feel that grade werent the ONLY thing they were working towards.




    different education methods..different "crazy" issues. learning to deal with issues is a part of broad education. at home and at school.

    what I am trying to work out is why you feel that the large amount of time kids have in school holidays,weekends,half terms and after school at home...is not enough time for you to carry out the extra added broader social education on other things at home as a parent that you need/want to teach your children?

    having read the thread again it does come across that you don't want your kids to spend as much time at school..rather than usefully use the time they are at home anyway........"education" is 24/7!

  • i suppose thats really part of the bigger picture Yoursink. i think that an intrinsic problem we have with the education system today, is that its not widely appreciated, that most of the really important education, happens out of school

    I also dont think that the kids necessarily need to spend 6 hours a day in school, when they could be learning and studying at their own pace, with the help of a parent.

    i certainly dont want my kids to spend as much time at school no, certainly not with the curiculum as it stands, i want them learning to live not learning to achieve a grade

  • you're still missing the point of most parents not having hte time to educate their kids because they've got jobs, and that they can't afford to have someone look after them while they're working.

  • your missing the main point, which is that education should be suited to the child and the parents, not the other way round. if a parent cannot give up a few hours work a day to assist their children, then they can find ways around that. but i dont intend to work 100% of the time and would therefore like the opportunity to help educate my own child

  • Quote

    your missing the main point, which is that education should be suited to the child and the parents




    why should what suits the parent have anything to do with it.. what is best for the child is all that counts

  • i was responding to perthlites comments about people who would rather work than be involved in their childrens education

    yes i believe that it should be all about the child, but obviously some people are not of the same mindset

  • Oh and also, the parents situation will always change what happens to the child, some education is expensive for example. some single parents have to work alot more and the like. i think the Family circumstance is definatly a factor

  • Fibi,if youre only interested in the opinions and experiences of people who seem to agree with your viewpoint its not going to give you the basis for a balanced discussion is it.


    People arent trying to belittle your opinion or force you to change it.Its just that the mums here were childless once too and we know that once you have a child of your own your thoughts and feelings on a whole range of things will change.And you wont understand that until youre a mum yourself.


    Thats nothing against you personally,its a pretty universal fact.I remember having ideals-I still do but they have to take reality into account now and part of that reality is that my child is a seperate entity from me and has different needs.


    I seriously struggled with him being at the alt school and constantly questioned whether we'd made the right decision in sending him there.I still struggle to understand how his feelings and experience of the school and people are so different than mine.But he's his own person and also hes experiencing things as a teenager while i'm experiencing the exact same things as his mother.My ideals arent neccessarily the same as,or right for,him.


    We cant rely on what was 'bad' about our own childhood experiences to make decisions for our own children.You had a shit time at school-all people are trying to say is that it doesnt follow that your child will have those same experiences if they are educated in the state system.


    And even with the best will in the world you may find that you cant educate your child the way you want to as a part-timer at school.Coz parents have needs too and sometimes the best thing for both of you is for them to be at school 5 days a week.And sometimes circumstances leave you no choice about that.


    Bottom line Fibi is that you cant decide how best to educate your child until you have one coz until then you dont know your child,or yourself as a parent.Its fine to look into different options,debate things and have ideals but when your living it a lot of your ideas will change.And as mums we know that coz we're living the reality.


    no ones dissing you hun,just finding some of your opinions and attitudes as a non-parent hard to swallow coz youre not respecting our collective experience as parents.In an ideal world all parents would take responsibility for educating and supporting their kids,be totally involved with their lives and everyone would be shiny and happy and well adjusted.But lifes not like that.And if it turns out that state school is the best thing for your child a 'good' parent will put aside their own feelings and experiences to support the child in whats right for them,rather than trying to make right their own childhood through their kids.

  • Quote from Oya'sDaughter

    Do what I learned to do...hit them in a place where the bruises don't show. That's not a fluffy or shiny happy way of saying it, but there's a reason I CAN walk in places where other people wouldn't dare; I don't look like easy pickings, because I learned not to look like easy pickings. The teasing in my school didn't stop when I "ignored them" (what stupid advice is that), it didn't stop when teachers told them to (or actually just ignored it because they AGREED with the beatings), it stopped because I broke a kid's nose and put another kid on the ground in a lock until he promised to never EVER touch me again. Not a very hippy-pacifist thing to do, and I was raised pacifist, but sometimes, pacifist merely means "easy target".

    There are nasty people everywhere...someday, sometime, whether I like it or not, my child is going to have to learn to deal with them. I cannot protect him from everything, I cannot be everywhere. I cannot put him in a glass bubble and make sure he's never hurt, as much as I'd like to. Sometimes the harshest and best lesson of life is to learn to be you, not merely because people around you are supportive of it, but in SPITE of all the people around you telling you how awful they think you are.

    I want my son to learn to hold his head high...and believe me I had this same conversation/argument with STBE. And again, I had to realise I can't project my awful childhood experiences on my son...he'll learn, like I did. I'll support him as much as I can, but he HAS to learn the awful lesson that sometimes, People Suck.



    And here you have just confirmed exactly what I said in my post. School teaches children to toughen up to the point of squaring up to the bullies and kicking the crap out of them in return, or they don't survive. I don't want that for my children, I don't want them to have to change their lovely, kind, sweet natures, just to fit in. That sucks.

  • Quote from Laney

    And here you have just confirmed exactly what I said in my post. School teaches children to toughen up to the point of squaring up to the bullies and kicking the crap out of them in return, or they don't survive. I don't want that for my children, I don't want them to have to change their lovely, kind, sweet natures, just to fit in. That sucks.



    i managed to survive state school being bullied to fuck and not being violent. there are other ways of dealing with them.

  • and.. bullies are in all types of schools...and outside school..and in life in general...even at work. If your kids have any contact with others at all..they need to be able to cope with them constructively. avoiding contact with them in life is sadly not an option

  • @ medusa - there are many different types of child and parent in the world, there should be different methods and ways of education in place to cope with how diverse we are as humans

    i completely respect your point of view as parents. but you seem to think my point of view is completely dictated by how i was raised, which is nonsense. I can look at the curriculm now and think 'what the fuck is that about' - who really needs to know this stuff? and because of that mindset, i would like to look into other ways of educating children.

    maybe i will have a baby and as it grows up i will think, my god this kids gonna love school, going to adore sitting in a class room all day and not getting much if any hands on experiences. but i might have a kid whose just not cut out for that, finds it hard to intergrate and gets bullied for being different

    i want to know what options are avaliable to me, i want to research and go to different types of schools, so that i can tailor my childs education to my child

  • Quote from Laney

    And here you have just confirmed exactly what I said in my post. School teaches children to toughen up to the point of squaring up to the bullies and kicking the crap out of them in return, or they don't survive. I don't want that for my children, I don't want them to have to change their lovely, kind, sweet natures, just to fit in. That sucks.



    am with you there, thre is all this talk of 'toughing up' well my brother was a bully and he used to 'toughen me up' quite frequently, all that has led to is an inabilty to show my true feelings in alot of situations, a great deal of trouble allowing people to get close to me and lots of general nastyness. Yeah i am tough and people look at me and say things like 'isnt she strong and passionate' but 'strong and passionate' isnt always attractive and i see people who have been raised in love and treated well and they are confident and happy, not strong and passionate and dramatic words like that, but content and loved

    i would much prefer that for my kids than them getting roughed up at school.

  • Post by Flibbertigibbet ().

    The post was deleted, no further information is available.
  • Quote


    maybe i will have a baby and as it grows up i will think, my god this kids gonna love school, going to adore sitting in a class room all day and not getting much if any hands on experiences. but i might have a kid whose just not cut out for that, finds it hard to intergrate and gets bullied for being different


    the reality of education system is that children DO get hands on experiences - very much so :)


    Fibi I think the best thing you could do if you want to really learn about your options as a prospective parent, is to ask to spend time in a variety of schools in your area. Go and see the difference between typical primary schools and rural "small schools". Go and see teachers at work, see how subjects are taught in a variety of ways. There are some bloody amazing teachers out there who teach in innovative and exciting ways. You really don't seem to have a clue about the reality of the education system as it stands today and I think you could do with going to have a looksee as it will really help you to inform your own judgements when you do have children :) Cos the impression you give is that you seem to think that children are sent to school to be filled with useless information by bullies...and that is SO not the case! :rolleyes:


    The education system is not perfect but it never has been and probably never will be because its tied up with politics and so the interests of children are sadly not the primary objective when political decisions are made with regards to curriculum and subject strategies within the curriculum...

  • Just thought i would point out for those who do not know that there are many types of ' home education ' , some folk join structured groups like :
    www.Bedford-Home-Ed.org.uk
    Arrange for GCSE and NVQs at nearby Schools / Colleges where kids can use the Science Facilities , Study Agriculture etc get funding via the ' school ' to pay for Tutors of their choice .


    Other families believe in Autonomous Education and apart from Maths and English let the Kids choose what they want to do , and oddly enough reckon that after a few idle weeks will start asking about subjects that interest them .
    We drifted a middle route and after 18 months of reading Romeo and Juliet , seeing the play 3 times as it was a GCSE choice ....when my Kid got fed up with ' learning the book like a memory test ' i felt happy if he read books of his choice ( and have a shelf full of Andy McNab :o)
    We never got ' tutors in ' or sat down at a table at 9 am ...but would ask pals who worked in the field questions , get cheap off peak travel / flights and go and experience places and cultures .


    So there are no set rules to Home Education - Mike

  • so you honestly think the current curriculum, teaching methods and situation is suitable to all children? coz i really dont sarah

    i really hoped this conversation would be more about different teaching methods and options avaliable, it seems to just be a 'burn the witch she doesnt want to send her kids to school' occassion for a lot of people which is sad

    i know schools arent run by bullies (when do i ever actually say any of this???) and i know some teachers are fanastic, but some arent, and some are bloody massive let downs. finding out other experiences is important to me, but not from people who fail to see why i would want to hear about those experiences

    if you think i am going to send my five year old to get 'toughened up' by the school system, then you really have another thing coming!!!

  • @ Mike - thanks very much, i will certainly be logging those sites and checking them out in the future, i also want to look at the difference between stiener schools and waldorf, boarding and none boarding, academic studies and vocational.

    will just have to see how it all goes!!

  • Quote

    i really hoped this conversation would be more about different teaching methods and options avaliable, it seems to just be a 'burn the witch she doesnt want to send her kids to school' occassion for a lot of people which is sad


    Jeez Fibi,you really do read posts in a peculiar way sometimes.Theres really no need to be so defensive-you've said yourself that you get like that so its not a critisism,just an observation.Sarahs advice was spot on-go spend some time in different schools as well as looking into other options.Nothing witch huntery about that,just sound suggestion.


    I was expelled at 14 and was dead against the school system when my son was born.But I found a fantastic primary school that suited him and then the alt secondary and now he's doing A levels at college.He's not 'toughened' or violent and he def hasnt lost his individuality.But he does feel he 'missed out' at secondary because they didnt wear a uniform.Go figure:rolleyes:


    There are always choices and options-inside and out of the state system.
    But do remember you dont have a kid yet and things are changing all the time so who knows what options'l be available in 5/6/7yrs time.And which of them will suit your particular child.


    Can I suggest though that working on why you think people are attacking you when theyre really not,and why you respond to those percieved attacks the way you do is gonna make you a much better parent than collecting info about educational choices before the child exists is ever going to:)

  • We did look at a Stiener School as an option , though it did have a nice relaxed feel .. i was a bit uneasy at the Religious Overtones , Kids are not allowed to watch TV , listen to Radio at all . German must be learnt , no man made fabrics .
    IF that way of life is yours ..then fair enough ....i see the future of the World needing to keep up to speed with World Affairs , News , Internet etc


    Anyone here been to a Stiener ?

  • maybe i just wont bother Medusa, i am clearly going to be an awful parent, i have already planned out the whole life of my unborn child and done an awful job of it

    thanks for the advice but i am sick and tired of people telling me the way i think about this is 'wrong'

    People have a right to an opinion, regardless of wether you guys think it is valid or not, i did go to school once, infact i only left there seven years ago (shit it might be eight now) and i do remember sitting there for years learning complete bollocks and being punished for taking a less than mainstream view point on alot of things like religion.

    i am glad you are all throughly enjoying sending your kiddies off to school, letting them learn whatever the government thinks they need, but i would like to find a method of teaching that is a little more suited to what I think they need.

    I dont mind people having a different view point to me, but i dont like this opinion that my word is not valid because i havent 'had a few' yet.

    i'm sorry that my obviously far out mental health problems make me unfit to be a mother, thanks SO MUCH for point out what has terrified me all along

    i might as well rip my fucking womb out now and save alot of bother hey

    hell with any luck i'll be infertile anyway, save a few stiches wont it

    seeya i wont be returning

    Fi