Work for Benefits

Welcome to UKHIppy2764@2x.png

UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • I'd be interested to see the amount of money that the government reckons is being defrauded each year, I'd bet it's a lot less than people are led to believe and it would be a drop in the ocean compared to wealthy people fiddling their tax returns

  • Quote from PlutoPete

    I'd be interested to see the amount of money that the government reckons is being defrauded each year, I'd bet it's a lot less than people are led to believe and it would be a drop in the ocean compared to wealthy people fiddling their tax returns


    :clap::clap::clap:

  • Quote from tekno

    Really how so? As far as I am aware there is a set amount that is 'put aside' for benefits each year in the budget... I don't think that benefit fraud would affect that too much... Well it wouldn't cause that much of a tax increase when compared with a war would it? ;)

    Also, more money is saved in unclaimed entitlements than is lost through fraud.

  • Quote from tekno


    The benefits system in this country is farcical... and does not relate to the cost of living at all... I see no problem with people deciding to get extra income while claiming benefits... Most of the couples I know that are working still receive benefits... So it is obvious that the cost of living is exceeding both wages and benefits for couples/single people with kid/s...

    :clap::clap::clap:


    Case in point...
    Two very good friends of mine recently married.. childless... one works part-time for tax credits the other works full time for customs and excise - so they are both working for the government...
    They HAVE to claim benefits cos they're income is so low and their council tax so high that they have no choice... They are now at point of actually considering whether its worth their while working at all for the pittance salary they receive...


    Unison and Unite were out on strike last week precisely because of this fact...


    The government DOES NOT pay enough money to its workers FULL STOP! And if it doesn't pay its own staff enough then the rest of the population who do fall under that threshold really do suffer like fuck.. not just single parents ;)


    Where you wanna be gettin pissy Winter IMHO is not with people who are struggling like fuck to make ends meet by any means necessary.. nah you wanna be gettin pissy with the politicians who allow this to happen over very many years and do not realistically appraise our welfare state but shimmy it round trying to make it fit and coming up with bullshit systems of award that even then they can't get right (I have a current bug bear with the housing benefit system useless cunts (see hippy 101)

  • Can't say I know much about single-parent (whoops... newspeak slippage.... I mean lone parent!) benefits, but as far as basic JSA goes... it's a fucking pittance. It's almost impossible to survive on JSA as a single person, and then they're surprised when people fiddle the system. Wankers.


    Just before I came off the dole and got a job, I moved into a new house (nothing lush... one room in a two-room terrace). The council wouldn't pay the whole of my (cheap) rent. After making up the shortfall, I'd have had £10 a fortnight to live off after paying bills (not including food). I couldn't have done it. If I hadn't got a job just at the right moment, I'd have had to work on the side just to feed myself.

  • KK has been struggling to get a job for ages...and the one he did get lasted him 3 weeks. It is not his fault he doesn't have a job, he is genuinelly looking.


    As a result of being on JSA for over a year he was made to do a 4 week course and a 10 week course, where he had to turn up 9 to 5 monday to friday or he lost his dole. This course was useless...for 2 days they were told how to write a good cv which was handy after that for the rest of the intire 10 weeks they had to turn up and sit in a room all day. Nothing to do. Noway of looking for a job...just turn up and sit in a room. The once a week the dole paid for them to go to the pub/ to go play pool/ go to the themepark as a way of "social bonding". The amount of times kk asked if he could leave to use a phone to call up a job they told him no. That course practically stopped him from being able to get a job. Eventually they found him a job which he couldn't do thanks to his dyslexia.. then they got annoyed he couldn't stick at it and put him back on a course that involved sitting in a room doing nothing all day.


    This scheme is ridiculous, people can't be actively looking for work if they are stuck in a room all day or stuck picking up litter all day. Not everyone on the dole is scamming the system...it is punishing people for not having a job.

  • Quote from Atomik

    Can't say I know much about single-parent (whoops... newspeak slippage.... I mean lone parent!) benefits, but as far as basic JSA goes... it's a fucking pittance. It's almost impossible to survive on JSA as a single person, and then they're surprised when people fiddle the system. Wankers.


    A lone parent receives around £127 p.w.... Which is just enough to pay the bills... feed your child... clothe them... pay for school trips... But not a lot else!




    *Edit*
    Lone Parent - (aged 18 or over) £60.50


    Family Premium £16.75




    Dependent Children - (from birth to day before 20th birthday) £40.75



    Wow it works out at about £118 p.w... :rolleyes:





  • When I was claiming as a single person I recieved the grand sum of £57 a week, I still had to provide for my son 3 days a week but got nothing to help with that, when I asked about a share of the child benefit I was laughed at

  • For many years, many who have claimed benefits have been left to themselves. They coast through life without any self esteem or confidence, they jobsearch occasionally, then sign on each fortnight and suggest to the apathetic job advisor that they have broken bone and blood vessel for work. And nowadays, there is high employment. There are organisations...apparently. I can relate to this myself as I too make up a story. Under current rules, a claimant must be available for work. The current attitude is you either look for work and are available for work, and if you are not, terminated. Even if you are doing some volunteer work or are studying at college, the rules are black and white, severe and non flexible.

    Under new proposals, getting us unemployed into some kind of work, will be a much needed breath of fresh air. And when you get your benefits, you will feel worthy of it, because you have worked for it.

    But this could cause problems. Many would prefer this way of earning a living rather than getting pay from an employer. Also those who are incapacity, will find it hard to lift things with a broken back. And it may contravene Doctors advise. It would be tough being genuinely incapacitated. You would have to do something and if you can't, you could literally starve to death and stack up debt and then find yourself homeless.

    It is early days, and I see many problems with the proposals, but if properly thought out and is fair, it could be successful.

  • It gets better:


    Quote

    Unemployed drug addicts who do not own up to their addiction when they seek benefits will be forced to repay the money and could face jail, while jobless people who take drugs will be banned from receiving dole money unless they accept treatment.

    Forcing drug users into jail and/or debt is really gonna help the problem, innit? :rolleyes:

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    Even if you are doing some volunteer work or are studying at college, the rules are black and white, severe and non flexible.

    So the sensible thing would be instead of a government scheme where people are expected to undertake menial work for their giro, how abouts expecting people to undertake voluntary work with a registered charity of their choice? Or to enrol in college? That would be far more productive and fair.

    Quote

    Under new proposals, getting us unemployed into some kind of work, will be a much needed breath of fresh air. And when you get your benefits, you will feel worthy of it, because you have worked for it.

    Bollocks. You'll be doing some shitty-ass work that the government has forced you into. You'll feel more socially alienated than ever.

  • Quote from Atomik

    It gets better:


    Forcing drug users into jail and/or debt is really gonna help the problem, innit? :rolleyes:


    So people will stop seeking help with their drug problems in order to keep getting benefits. This government really should spend some time in the real world instead of cloud cuckoo land

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    For many years, many who have claimed benefits have been left to themselves. They coast through life without any self esteem or confidence, they jobsearch occasionally, then sign on each fortnight and suggest to the apathetic job advisor that they have broken bone and blood vessel for work. And nowadays, there is high employment. There are organisations...apparently. I can relate to this myself as I too make up a story. Under current rules, a claimant must be available for work. The current attitude is you either look for work and are available for work, and if you are not, terminated. Even if you are doing some volunteer work or are studying at college, the rules are black and white, severe and non flexible.


    That may describe you... but you can't apply that to everyone who is unemployed... Like myself I am a full time student atm.. And have been 'unemployed' for the last six years.. I have not gone out and got a job because it has not been financially viable.. In other words i have been better off on benefits... Childcare costs a bomb... so I thought I would get a degree before looking for work... I now have a much improved chance (with help from volunteering as well) of getting a well paid job... I have been given stick by the DWP about my choices... and they have hinted during 'back to work' interviews that I may have to take any old job... How can that really help me and my child... I also know of many people who decide to re educate themselves without getting involved in the DWP back to work shite.. and they are generally the people who end up working in jobs they are happy in.. and usually do not claim benefits again.. If the government force people to work in areas that they do not enjoy they are not going to motivate more people to work.... Maybe if the DWP (and other benefits agencies), saw people as individuals instead of just their NI number then more people could get the support they need to get back into work..

    Quote from flamboyant queen

    Under new proposals, getting us unemployed into some kind of work, will be a much needed breath of fresh air. And when you get your benefits, you will feel worthy of it, because you have worked for it.


    Why should you be worthy to get benefits.. if you think like that no wonder your self esteem is low... And why should ANYONE on benefits feel like the pittance they receive is worthy of such feeling... I know I have paid more than enough NI to be deemed 'worthy' of the benefits I receive as a lone parent! :D

  • Quote

    Atomik]So the sensible thing would be instead of a government scheme where people are expected to undertake menial work for their giro, how abouts expecting people to undertake voluntary work with a registered charity of their choice? Or to enrol in college? That would be far more productive and fair.



    If the rules were more relaxed or if claimants were encouraged to do voluntary work or enrol at college. Could be more productive and fair.


    Quote

    Quote


    [B]Bollocks.

    Quote

    You'll be doing some shitty-ass work that the government has forced you into. You'll feel more socially alienated than ever.



    Well of course you won't be working for the Hilton or getting job in Buckingham palace as a Crown Polisher. But any work is good, even if it is shitty-assed. It is character building and keeps your mind occupied. Instead of this government giving tough labouring jobs to immigrants, perhaps it is time the indiginous people got their hands dirty. Bucking barley or harvesting cabbage is something I would like to do. And you get paid above ;)And if a society is a working Nation, who needs the EU when we can be a self sufficient Country! [/B]

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen


    Well of course you won't be working for the Hilton or getting job in Buckingham palace as a Crown Polisher. But any work is good, even if it is shitty-assed. It is character building and keeps your mind occupied. Instead of this government giving tough labouring jobs to immigrants, perhaps it is time the indiginous people got their hands dirty. Bucking barley or harvesting cabbage is something I would like to do. And you get paid above ;)And if a society is a working Nation, who needs the EU when we can be a self sufficient Country!


    Well if these shitty jobs are so character building why have you not got a job then..? And then you may be in a position to whine about immigrants getting all of the jobs... :rolleyes:


    So far I have seen you post quite anti gay... Nationalistic Pro Conservative views... on this site... You do know this is a hippy site don't you? :insane:

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    Well of course you won't be working for the Hilton or getting job in Buckingham palace as a Crown Polisher. But any work is good, even if it is shitty-assed. It is character building and keeps your mind occupied.

    That's utterly ridiculous. You may find cleaning dog shit out of gutters in exchange for a pittance of government benefit "character building", but I expect most people would find it soul-destroying, demeaning and degrading.

  • Quote from Atomik

    I was wondering that myself. :rolleyes:


    I suppose he's good to have around.. keeps us up to date with what the Daily Mail is publishing! ;)

  • Quote from tekno

    Well if these shitty jobs are so character building why have you not got a job then..? And then you may be in a position to whine about immigrants getting all of the jobs... :rolleyes:

    So far I have seen you post quite anti gay... Nationalistic Pro Conservative views... on this site... You do know this is a hippy site don't you? :insane:



    Immigrants are quite often exploited. The Government have only just got these proposals together. And yes, secretly (Not revealing to Jobcentre), I worked a year with a volunteering organisation in landscape design, gardening. Tackling knotweed is labour intensive, but I also did other tough duties, and I didn't get paid! And I am now bettering my chances of getting a job, with a carpentry course. I am not anti-gay, that is just a load of baloney. Whining? No! Many immigrants are underpaid, we have had uncontrolled immigration for years, and getting a job, even in these times isn't easy. As for your smilies....:rolleyes:

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    I worked a year with a volunteering organisation in landscape design, gardening. Tackling knotweed is labour intensive, but I also did other tough duties, and I didn't get paid!

    The key element here being that your work was voluntary and not compulsory, and you chose to do something that you presumably wanted to do. Hence if the government encouraged people to do voluntary work of their choice, the scheme would be far more productive. The carrot always works better than the stick.

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    Immigrants are quite often exploited. The Government have only just got these proposals together. And yes, secretly (Not revealing to Jobcentre), I worked a year with a volunteering organisation in landscape design, gardening. Tackling knotweed is labour intensive, but I also did other tough duties, and I didn't get paid! And I am now bettering my chances of getting a job, with a carpentry course. I am not anti-gay, that is just a load of baloney. Whining? No! Many immigrants are underpaid, we have had uncontrolled immigration for years, and getting a job, even in these times isn't easy. As for your smilies....:rolleyes:


    Get over yourself! So because you have done a little bit of gardening you think that it is ok for this government to force people into jobs they may not want to do... Do you also agree that drug addicts should get their benefits stopped... As I said in an earlier post if people were given more opportunity to re educate (skills as well as academically) themselves in a way that interests them... like you and I have done... and stopped forcing people into justifying themselves while they are claiming benefits then more people would want to find work...


    BTW I don't need to to tell me that immigrants are often under paid... I am well aware of how much they get fooked over when they move to this country... Are you aware that because of the immigrant work force our economy benefited?


    Also using language as you have like "indigenous people" etc does make you come across as a bit of a bigot! :rolleyes: And do you really think that mass immigration had anything to do with people finding it hard to find jobs... you need to look at the government as the scapegoat for that... Jobs are usually quite hard to find when the economy is a bit dodgy... Or if your level of education is not too good... or if you are addicted to drugs booze...


    Also you don't like my use of smileys.. well all I can say is...:gives:

  • Quote from Atomik

    The key element here being that your work was voluntary and not compulsory, and you chose to do something that you presumably wanted to do. Hence if the government encouraged people to do voluntary work of their choice, the scheme would be far more productive. The carrot always works better than the stick.



    Well, not allways. There were many tasks which I just didn't want to do. Like clearing out house gardens of rubbish, so that the council wouldn't fine them or send them to prison. Getting rid of weeds like nettles, hogweed and Japanese knotweed. But I still did it. I think if the Government imposed mandatory condition that you did voluntary work in order to get your JSA, there would be a stark choice, hense, people would do the jobs, even if they didn't put that much into it. A working nation is a prosperous nation. For too long, many who claim benefits are often neglected, even criticised for not getting a job. It isn't just about looking for work, it is also about training young people and getting them job ready. Many New Deal courses I went to, were appauling. The staff that ran the places had terrible attitudes and they just expected you to sit at a computer for six hours in silence. And with out of date newspapers and limited phone access, no wonder we are relying on immigrants to keep the wheels of Britain turning. A credit to Immigrants, but however, maybe now is the time to send many back, to close the doors and to get the British layabouts into production mode. I admit I am lazy at times, I mean it is so tempting to have a lie in. So tempting not to go to the jobcentre every day.
    But if the jobcentre had these new plans in force, there will be many more back into work. But as they say, proof is in the puddin' :)

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    Well, not allways. There were many tasks which I just didn't want to do. Like clearing out house gardens of rubbish, so that the council wouldn't fine them or send them to prison. Getting rid of weeds like nettles, hogweed and Japanese knotweed. But I still did it.

    All jobs involve some tasks you'd rather not do. Again, the key element is that you had a choice.


    Quote

    think if the Government imposed mandatory condition that you did voluntary work in order to get your JSA, there would be a stark choice, hense, people would do the jobs, even if they didn't put that much into it.

    Yes, they'd do them... and feel degraded and disenfranchised, resulting in more social problems and increased social alienation.


    Quote

    A working nation is a prosperous nation.

    That sounds like a nazi propaganda pamphlet!


    Quote

    For too long, many who claim benefits are often neglected, even criticised for not getting a job. It isn't just about looking for work, it is also about training young people and getting them job ready. Many New Deal courses I went to, were appauling. The staff that ran the places had terrible attitudes and they just expected you to sit at a computer for six hours in silence.

    Exactly. And yet you trust the same government agencies to run a work-for-benefits scheme? :rolleyes:


    Quote

    And with out of date newspapers and limited phone access, no wonder we are relying on immigrants

    This isn't a thread about immigration, so save those views for another time please.


    Quote

    But if the jobcentre had these new plans in force, there will be many more back into work. But as they say, proof is in the puddin' :)

    Erm... bollocks. To get people back to work, you need jobs. There are more unemployed people than there are jobs. Do the math.

  • Quote

    Get over yourself! So because you have done a little bit of gardening you think that it is ok for this government to force people into jobs they may not want to do... Do you also agree that drug addicts should get their benefits stopped... As I said in an earlier post if people were given more opportunity to re educate (skills as well as academically) themselves in a way that interests them... like you and I have done... and stopped forcing people into justifying themselves while they are claiming benefits then more people would want to find work...


    It is only right that those able to work should work. Why should layabouts get money for nothing? I too feel guilty for doing nothing, but yet getting money for nothing. Drug addicts need help and there are places they can go. As I have never had a drugs problem, I don't know the extent of support agencies, but they are there. There is a good proverb, "Teach man and he will yet be wiser". Training and mandatory volunteer work will ensure people will be trained, job ready and able then to hold down a real paid job. when you are unemployed for a long time, it is very hard to adjust to a normal working day, ie getting up early, coming home late etc etc. As a result, many find benefits more alluring.

    [Removed - not an immigration thread. Last warning.]


    Quote


    Also using language as you have like "indigenous people" etc does make you come across as a bit of a bigot! :rolleyes: And do you really think that mass immigration had anything to do with people finding it hard to find jobs... you need to look at the government as the scapegoat for that... Jobs are usually quite hard to find when the economy is a bit dodgy... Or if your level of education is not too good... or if you are addicted to drugs booze...


    You don't know me so how dare you make the assumption that I am addicted to drugs, booze etc. And also I am not a bigot. Unless you really know what you are talking about, say nothing.

    Quote

    Also you don't like my use of smileys.. well all I can say is...:gives:


    Obviously not you. :hippy:

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    It is only right that those able to work should work. Why should layabouts get money for nothing?

    Characterising all those on benefits as "layabouts" suggests that your prejudice is leading your reasoning. :rolleyes:


    Quote

    mandatory volunteer work will ensure people will be trained, job ready and able then to hold down a real paid job

    Where is your evidence to support this?


    Quote

    when you are unemployed for a long time, it is very hard to adjust to a normal working day, ie getting up early, coming home late etc etc.

    Bollocks. I went straight from long-term unemployment to full-time shift work, starting as early as 7am. I was never late for work once and didn't have the slightest trouble adapting to the routine.

  • Quote


    Characterising all those on benefits as "layabouts" suggests that your prejudice is leading your reasoning. :rolleyes:


    There are more and more young people and people on benefits than ever before. One of the reasons is: You are now better off on benefits. ON JSA, you often get entitlement to council tax relief and rent rebate. In an ever expensive society, benefits is desirable. My prejudice can be justified as there are more claimants who simply want to live off benefits.

    Quote


    Where is your evidence to support this?



    I admit I have no evidence, but there is always a chance if there are key reforms made to the way benefits are distributed.

    Quote


    Bollocks. I went straight from long-term unemployment to full-time shift work, starting as early as 7am. I was never late for work once and didn't have the slightest trouble adapting to the routine.



    You may have found it easy, but there are many who find it a shock to go from doing little all week to suddenly working forty hours a week.Quite often from early morning and having to commute long distance in some cases. So no, not BOLLOCKS, as you starkly put it.

    As before, proof is in the puddin'. There are much needed reforms to the benefit system and a reform could benefit both parties. We have labour government. Although I don't back all their policies, there are going to be some that I agree with. Reforming benefits system could save tax payers millions. If you work, you pay tax. Surely you would want less tax to pay and with the ten pence tax rate abolished, surely you would hopefully back some critical reforms.