Veggie versus meat eating-go on-debate

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  • i thought this thred might keep you all ummm busy :)


    its actually really quite interesting to read.
    and to see all the various differing opinions
    :thumbup:

  • Quote from campertess

    i thought this thred might keep you all ummm busy :)

    its actually really quite interesting to read.
    and to see all the various differing opinions
    :thumbup:


    Yep thanks for the thread:thumbup:

  • Quote from Greenthing

    Can i throw another another stick in the fire.
    Lets say that everyone on this planet did not eat meat what would happen to the cows, there would not be any farmers willing to keep them or any other cattle so in the future peeps will have to take their kids to a themepark to see them weird man.
    :eek:


    Less cattle would be bred for slaughter, but they wouldn't die out. What would die out would be the artificially "enhanced" breeds that are pumped full of growth hormones and bear little resemblance to natural breeds

  • Having a veggie live with me half the year makes me very relaxed about what people do and don't eat....I've no problem about cooking and eating vegetarian food but there's no way that I'll give up eating meat....I just eat organic and free range now and wild game that's had a free life.
    If I ever get told that everyone should be veggie I just ask why lions aren't....it's a silly answer but it stops them hassling me.

  • Quote from PlutoPete

    Less cattle would be bred for slaughter, but they wouldn't die out. What would die out would be the artificially "enhanced" breeds that are pumped full of growth hormones and bear little resemblance to natural breeds


    True but they could become rare in the distant future as all farmers would be growing vegetables for a living no need for grazing land and pastures and even more knock on effects, dont you agree.:D

  • Quote from Stardusts Dad

    wild game that's had a free life.


    And roadkill if your into that, then no having to kill.:)

  • Quote from tekno

    Which is just as crap as all omnivores being branded as cruel, and supporting an inhumane trade when they are also trying to support the ethical treatment of animals... ;) What you decide to have as a diet should not be open for ridicule... it is more than a bit childish...

    But surely, killing something for the sole purpose of satisfying your appetite when there are other choices is inhumane and unethical?

    I fully appreciate that you are making an effort and that your choices are better than many people's. There are degrees of suffering, but to say that it is ethical to kill anything at all seems a bit contradictory.

    If I wanted to eat people, would it be ok if I killed them "humanely" after they had had a bit of a life? Would it be my right to choose cannibalism as a diet? If not, then why shouldn't animals share the same right to a full life, what gives us human beings the right to dictate when other species live, when they die and what they get used for?

    Quote from Stardusts Dad

    If I ever get told that everyone should be veggie I just ask why lions aren't....it's a silly answer but it stops them hassling me.

    Well for a start Lions have no choice and no free will. They have to have meat in their diet in order to live. Certain indigenous races/tribes also need meat in order to survive, and I personally would eat meat if it was a matter of life or death. However, if I can choose an alternative, then it makes sense to do my bit to minimise suffering.

    Personally, before I was veggie it was a bit like having an elephant in the room; I always cared about animals, hated cruelty to living things, but it felt like a massive contradiction to be eating meat and still call myself an animal lover. I went on like this for years mainly because of social conditioning, and also because of some of the arguments put forward in here. However, since I stopped eating meat my health has improved and it gives me an enormous sense of self-worth to know that I am not contributing to animal suffering in the way that I used to.

    Nobody is perfect though; perfection is impossible in a less than ideal world. I'd rather see someone making a little effort rather than simply not thinking about the consequences.

  • *dittos Paul*


    I am on the fence generally........but veggie "just in case" :D (also i'm just really fussy and picky with meat so theres no point) but I find discussions like this make me more on my way to forming my own opinion.... if i go to pro meat websites they give me their propaganda and if i go to pro veg websites they give me theirs, so its nice to see the two ideas bouncing off each other.


    the whole "killing humanely" does confuse me too...............


    I must admit as someone asked earlier..... i do feel a huge hypocrite supporting the dairy industry............ my argument is that i am already a rubbish and gussy eater, and eliminating even more foods I would really struggle.

  • Quote from Greenthing

    True but they could become rare in the distant future as all farmers would be growing vegetables for a living no need for grazing land and pastures and even more knock on effects, dont you agree.:D


    What other knock on effects, animals no longer kept in permanent states of breeding, no more cows bred to produce so much milk that they cannot walk unless milked every day, calves that never see the light of day, chickens turned into egg machines. it is better that these animals are rare than turned into biological components of a food factory.

  • Yep but rare species can be in danger of extinction.
    Who knows where it would end if it happend but it is only if.
    :thumbup:

  • I do eat meat although I was vegatarian for about two years from the age of about 9 , what triggered this was a camping trip with school and the teachers were cooking some beef and there were cows in the next field and I could not eat it!

    I didi start eating meat again I dont know why, I still do now but I do always have a guilty feeling while eating but I do enjoy it.

    I dont like touching raw meat or looking at it but I do still eat it.

    I must say though for every person that critizizes a veggi lifestyle there will be a vegatarian critizizing a meat eater.

  • Quote from reggaegotsoul

    .
    I must say though for every person that critizizes a veggi lifestyle there will be a vegatarian critizizing a meat eater.


    You are so right

  • It so great that as humans we can say "it is my choice ".sadly the animals can't voice their opinions and say "well it is my choice if I get eaten no matter how I have been farmed "

  • Quote from Greenthing

    Yep but rare species can be in danger of extinction.
    Who knows where it would end if it happend but it is only if.
    :thumbup:


    Most species that are in danger of extinction are endangered because humans destroy their habitats in order to graze cattle and grow animal feed

  • Quote from PlutoPete

    Most species that are in danger of extinction are endangered because humans destroy their habitats in order to graze cattle and grow animal feed


    Ok so if no one eats meat the farmer will not grow fodder for the cattle anymore hence not as many cattle if any, now what will the farmer grow then, in my opinion he will use the land to grow fields of oil producing plants like rape seed to make bio fuel because of the oil shortage how else could he or she make a living. I cant visualize farmers growing fields of veg when there is more money in bio fuel.

  • Quote from Windfall

    You can hardly compare a plant to a living, breathing, warm blooded animal who has 2 eyes, 2 ears, a mouth, nose (need I go on) just like we do, who can sense danger and whose heart beats faster in fear.



    This is where I disagree with you, ALL living things with a heartbeat or without are special and I belive they have feelings. To me there is very little difference in killing and eating an animal or a plant, a living being is still dying.

    Nutrients in the soil which are from dead plants and animals enable the plants to grow, which then die or are killed and feed other plants and animals and the cycle continues.

    I am just part of that cycle of life and death. Eventually I will die, my body will decompose and turn into nutrients in the soil which will enable plants to grow.......

  • Quote from Greenthing

    Yep but rare species can be in danger of extinction.
    Who knows where it would end if it happend but it is only if.
    :thumbup:


    i'd rather be a dead cow than a cow in a factory farm.

  • I went on to visit some friends who are vegetarian and they had two other friends with their three very young children staying with them who were all vegan and they all looked very pale and under nourished dull eyes and not very healthy looking at all, the kids did not seem to have any energy like other kids.
    Anyhoo it seemed to me that the parents had made the decision because they were vegan that their children had to be vegan also.
    I felt so sorry for them they reminded me of little orphans in workhouse like Oliver Twist.
    So that put me off that kind of lifestlye.:(

  • Quote from Greenthing

    I went on to visit some friends who are vegetarian and they had two other friends with their three very young children staying with them who were all vegan and they all looked very pale and under nourished dull eyes and not very healthy looking at all, the kids did not seem to have any energy like other kids.
    Anyhoo it seemed to me that the parents had made the decision because they were vegan that their children had to be vegan also.
    I felt so sorry for them they reminded me of little orphans in workhouse like Oliver Twist.
    So that put me off that kind of lifestlye.:(


    but you also get young healthy vegan children and pale unernourished meat eaters. i think this whole health debate doesnt make much sense because you can be an unhealthy omni or an unhealthy vegan. I'm sick of people telling me I look so thin and wasting away from being a veggie, when in fact i'm larger than I was when I ate meat!

  • Quote from Naeni

    i'd rather be a dead cow than a cow in a factory farm.


    Me too i do not agree with factory farming, all animals should be free range.:)

  • Quote from Naeni

    but you also get young healthy vegan children and pale unernourished meat eaters. i think this whole health debate doesnt make much sense because you can be an unhealthy omni or an unhealthy vegan. I'm sick of people telling me I look so thin and wasting away from being a veggie, when in fact i'm larger than I was when I ate meat!


    I agree some people are born unhealthy anhoo no matter what they eat.
    The peeps i mention in my other post are the only vegans i have ever met so they were probably not a good example, I dont know to be truthfull.

  • Unfortunately free range doesn't always mean 'free range', plus it wouldn't solve the horror of the calves born as a result of the milk industry.
    To produce milk the cows must be pregnant, so if the calf that's born is male it's either killed or taken off to live it's short life out in a veal crate.
    If we move onto the egg industry..........millions of baby chicks are killed soon after birth by crushing or suffocation, as male chicks are not needed.
    So, free range is only part of the equation. :)

  • Quote from Greenthing

    I agree some people are born unhealthy anhoo no matter what they eat.
    The peeps i mention in my other post are the only vegans i have ever met so they were probably not a good example, I dont know to be truthfull.


    not neccicalry born with, I was meaning diet.


    for example you can get a vegetarian who eats tonnes of lovely veg yum yum or a veggie who eats a load of crap such as chips and fried things.


    you can also get an omni who lives off mcdonalds and other such bollocks but also an omni whos diet is rich in veggies and a small amount of good quality meat.

  • Quote from Naeni

    not neccicalry born with, I was meaning diet.

    for example you can get a vegetarian who eats tonnes of lovely veg yum yum or a veggie who eats a load of crap such as chips and fried things.

    you can also get an omni who lives off mcdonalds and other such bollocks but also an omni whos diet is rich in veggies and a small amount of good quality meat.


    Oh yes i see and i agree.
    I cant stand hotdonalds Its not meat anyhow it looks like chewed up cardboard YUK.

  • Quote from uma


    I never thought you were :) Just wanted to point out the misconception as its something that a lot of people think.:)


    Thanks for the links.. that is one assumption I won't be making again! :D :thumbup:


    Quote from paul

    But surely, killing something for the sole purpose of satisfying your appetite when there are other choices is inhumane and unethical?

    I fully appreciate that you are making an effort and that your choices are better than many people's. There are degrees of suffering, but to say that it is ethical to kill anything at all seems a bit contradictory.


    It depends, as Wiggy said earlier in the thread, on your perception of what cows/sheep/chickens/pigs that are farmed for meat are... By that I mean do you see them as animals that could live in the wild without human intervention... or if you see them as a product of thousands of years of evolution that has been shaped by humans... ;)


    I do not think it is unethical to kill an animal that has been raised for slaughter ethically... By that I mean the farmer following the very strict guidelines concerning the ethical treatment of livestock... It is just as ethical in my mind as being vegetarian and continuing to consume dairy products when there are plenty of non dairy alternatives...;)


    Thanks for seeing that I don't fall into the same category of meat eater that riles veggies/vegans so much... :D

  • Quote from Windfall

    ...or taken off to live it's short life out in a veal crate.



    they dont use veal crates in this country anymore :D

  • Quote from Greenthing

    Ok so if no one eats meat the farmer will not grow fodder for the cattle anymore hence not as many cattle if any, now what will the farmer grow then, in my opinion he will use the land to grow fields of oil producing plants like rape seed to make bio fuel because of the oil shortage how else could he or she make a living. I cant visualize farmers growing fields of veg when there is more money in bio fuel.


    The farmer will grow crops, whether for bio diesel or food. It takes 4 fields of crops to feed 1 field of cows so even if some went for biodiesel it would still be much more efficient than cows. Biodiesel could well become a big problem but it is still not a reason to farm cows.

  • Quote from PlutoPete

    Biodiesel could well become a big problem but it is still not a reason to farm cows.


    No its not a reason your right, but money is a good reason for the farmers if they cant sell cattle because no one is eating meat, how else will farming survive not by growing nothing but veg alone.

  • Quote from Naeni

    but you also get young healthy vegan children and pale unernourished meat eaters. i think this whole health debate doesnt make much sense because you can be an unhealthy omni or an unhealthy vegan.

    Exactly. I've seen far more pale, undernourished, sick looking children living of McDonald's meals. A balanced, healthy diet is a balanced, healthy diet - vegetarian, vegan or omni.

  • Quote from Greenthing

    Can i throw another another stick in the fire.
    Lets say that everyone on this planet did not eat meat what would happen to the cows, there would not be any farmers willing to keep them or any other cattle so in the future peeps will have to take their kids to a themepark to see them weird man.
    :eek:

    And also, what would happen if aliens turned up, stole all our plants, and we'd got rid of all the cows? :eek::eek:


    How about restricting the discussion to the rational rather than the ridiculous? What do you think the odds are of the entire planet - or even a large percentage of it - going veggie overnight?