Veggie versus meat eating-go on-debate

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  • There ya are ,
    I've started a thred specially for you to have a debate/discussion on the pro's n cons of meat eating or not as the case maybe..


    I'm peeved that some ppl seem to think i've got a major issue with this:rolleyes:


    I dont.


    I really dont care what ppl eat.
    Its personal choice.


    But it does irritate me greatly when ppl think their opinion is the RIGHT one n therefore try n force it upon you.



    You guys crack on..
    I've got preps to do..


    No sarcy comments on this thred please or personal attacks.. That really aint nessacery.


    But now you have a place to post ya veiws on this topic , please keep them off the Trevstock threds .
    Cos its winding ppl up n causing muchly un needed aggrivation .


    So...


    I eat meat...thas my choice.
    alot of you dont n thas your choice


    Go for it guys,discuss :thumbup:

  • I too think that everyone is entitled to their choice of what to eat - just dont try to force your opinion on me.

    I eat meat, I enjoy it. I try not to eat intensivly farmed meat, I prefere wild or free range.

    I believe that all living things have feelings and a right to life. However for life to exist there must be death. I think that just because a vegetable cant move, or comunicate doesnt mean that it feels less and therefore it is no worse to kill and animal and eat it than to kill a vegetable and eat it.

    I try to eat local seasonal produce because I think that food that travels half way round the world for us to get strawberries in january etc causes unessisary polution and deprives people where the food is grown of the food. If I where a veggie I think it would be a struggle (not impossible) to eat a well balanced diet of local seasonal produce.

  • Quote from Ses

    I'm not a vegetarian but I don't particularly like meat... so I don't really cook it for myself. But if someone cooked a roast chicken or a steak for me, I'd happily partake.


    If i'm hungry enough,I'll eat anything.
    apart from prawns cos they make me feel :vomit:


    I dont like animal cruelty but i also agree with Dragonz there ....
    How do we know plants dont feel pain when picked/cut/cropped prior to being eaten ?

  • Quote from campertess

    I dont like animal cruelty but i also agree with Dragonz there ....
    How do we know plants dont feel pain when picked/cut/cropped prior to being eaten ?



    yay someone who doesnt think i am mad for talking to plants

  • Quote from dragonz

    yay someone who doesnt think i am mad for talking to plants



    No no , i often talk to tree's n things

  • im an omniviore[sp] its in my profile,i try to eat organic/freerange/seasonally foods,but its hard when everything goes up in price.and im damn sure at 34 yrs old ,NO-ONES going to force their beliefs or tell me what im going to eat from now on.:reddevil:everyones got their own beliefs an views and thats what makes life different,but i wouldnt dream of forcing my ways on others.

  • Quote from Paul

    So what about the rights of the animal to live freely, not be killed and not be eaten?

    if carvivores insist on a lifestyle that condones unecessary suffering and death, then it is it not our right to challenge and condemn that killing?


    I'm sorry Paul but I am an omni' and I try my damnedest to ensure what little meat I eat is produced ethically.. I also disagree with animals being made to suffer just so they can be turned into a meal...


    Not every omnivore condones the way most meat is produced... And surprisingly some us give a damn enough to challenge the way meat is produced... Please don't tar all of us with the same brush... It costs me a fooking fortune to buy organic/free range meat... And it's insulting to me to keep reading things like you have posted... We are designed to be omniverous... This is why we have canine teeth is it not... I do know that the amount of meat some people eat is unhealthy for them... and also the animals that are massed produced in order to meet the high demand for meat...


    I do not have a go at vegans for helping cause more damage to our world by the mass production of soya... Maybe if veggies and vegans were less condensending when explaining their (correct) views more meat eaters would be prepared to listen to them... ;)

  • Quote from Paul

    So what about the rights of the animal to live freely, not be killed and not be eaten?

    if carnivores insist on a lifestyle that condones unnecessary suffering and death, then it is it not our right to challenge and condemn that killing?


    You have the right to freedom of speech and I will defend any ones right to that, but I would say that I see most of the ways people try to convert meat eaters to becoming vegetarians do nothing more than to make them more staunch about their right to eat meat.


    I don't eat meat, that's my choice. If anyone asks me why, I tell them I don't like the meat industry, backing it up with facts and figures. Add to that the fact that from a young age I have disliked the taste and texture of meat in my mouth and that is why I made the choice to not consume meat. I do not ever put forward these opinions unless asked by someone. This is my personal choice based on the information I have.


    I don't feel that offering my opinion when unsolicited to do so ever works to change some ones mind. They have to come to that decision themselves.

  • I cant handle the idea of killing another being. I especially cant handle the idea of vast quantities of animals being selectivly bred to make them perfect for exploitation, torture and murder. If I was comfortable with the idea of going out and shooting a rabbit or bird then I would probably eat meat. I dont like the idea that I've taken a life for no reason. If I was unhealthy or very hungry without meat then I would also probably eat meat.

    I ate and enjoyed meat until I was 16. Since being vegetarian I have learnt to really LOVE good veggy food, I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything by not eating meat. I do occasionally get meat cravings, usually when I've been a bit slack with cooking. The cravings fade when I work hard to perpare myself a nutritious well balanced meal.

    I do not want to force my oppinion on anyone because I would hate someone to force their oppinion on me. People have to work out the lifestyle they feel most comfortable with for themselves in their own way. I do try to respect this but I find it hard sometimes because thinking about the meat industry is very painful and emotional for me.

  • Quote from Paul

    So what about the rights of the animal to live freely, not be killed and not be eaten?

    if carvivores insist on a lifestyle that condones unecessary suffering and death, then is it not our right to challenge and condemn that killing?


    Right. I'll go and give the lions a good talking to. Them sharks are bastards too..:pp

  • Quote from Dibdabs


    I do not want to force my oppinion on anyone because I would hate someone to force their oppinion on me. People have to work out the lifestyle they feel most comfortable with for themselves in their own way. I do try to respect this but I find it hard sometimes because thinking about the meat industry is very painful and emotional for me.


    Which is really understandable... I eat meat and I still feel sick when I look at a dead battery chicken... or any meat that I know has been mass produced... :vomit:


    I think that if more veggies/vegans realised that there are many ethical omnivores out there then debates such as this would cease to happen... and we could all focus our attention to challenging the way meat is produced....

  • Quote from Skully

    You have the right to freedom of speech and I will defend any ones right to that, but I would say that I see most of the ways people try to convert meat eaters to becoming vegetarians do nothing more than to make them more staunch about their right to eat meat.


    I don't eat meat, that's my choice.



    Indeed!

  • I haven't got time to answer everything there but ...

    Quote from tekno

    We are designed to be omniverous... This is why we have canine teeth is it not... I do know that the amount of meat some people eat is unhealthy for them...

    Firstly, we are also designed to be insectivores - However I don't see anyone in the west scoffing on bugs to provide extra protein.

    Our canine teeth are nothing like that of other predators, they can't rip through flesh in the same way that a wild animal can and probably evolved to cope with tough vegetation (Just take a look at gorilla's teeth, a vegan creature with enormous fangs).

    Prehistoric man ate very little meat, mainly foraging for bugs and eggs. Different circumstances saw meat consumption increase, but this was more out of necessity and survival during times such as the ice age. However, nature is full of cruelty, so using "natural" as a justification seems like a pretty weak argument in my opinion.

    The thing is, we (in the modern west) do not need meat to live, all arguments to the contrary regarding various deficiencies have been thrashed out time and time again. Therefore the only reason that most people eat meat is to satisfy their taste buds - and eating animals just because they taste nice seems pretty selfish to me.

  • Quote from Skully

    ....but I would say that I see most of the ways people try to convert meat eaters to becoming vegetarians do nothing more than to make them more staunch about their right to eat meat.

    Actually, I don't think it's necessarily so simple. Sure, it often seems that way judging by people's reactions, but people often seem at their most staunch right before they break and go veggie. I was rabid in my meat-eating, right up until the last minute.


    Personally, I don't think there's any simple "correct" approach to this debate. I don't think it's always helpful or productive to shove your opinions in people's faces (and I tend to rarely even mention that I'm veggie unless people ask), but then it's also reasonable to stand up and make your view heard if you see people supporting something that's inherently cruel. If you saw someone torturing a cat, would it be "their choice", and would it be unreasonable of you to "shove your opinions in their face"?


    Quote

    I don't feel that offering my opinion when unsolicited to do so ever works to change some ones mind. They have to come to that decision themselves.

    I can say from personal experience that this is incorrect. If someone hadn't offered me their unsolicited opinion, I'd have been eating meat for the last 20 years instead of being veggie. It's not always the best approach, but you can't simply say "it never works".


    I think ultimately veggies/vegans have to accept that people will form their own moral judgements. But meat-eaters also have to accept that veggies/vegans have a right to express how they feel.

  • I also find that as soon as I tell people that I'm a veggie I often get a load of piss taking, people tempting me with burgers, asking me why, arguing about how natural meat is, and generally making a fuss when there previously wasn't any. Sometimes to the point where I don't want people to find out because it creates too much fuss.

    However, omnivores in this thread seem to say that we are ramming our opinions down people's throats - but surely a debate about "veggie versus omni" should have both sides of the argument in it, and not just defensive omnivores slating veggies for attacking their "lifestyle"?

  • Hi all & welcome to the "yearly" debate :waves:


    It's interesting that people feel the need to justify their eating habits almost as a "religious" justification of their way of life. The humanisation of animal rights always comes up & it just makes me laugh. Yes most animals will take care of themselves when given the opportunities for a clean living environment etc. But the reality is that they need to be managed, both for thier own well being & the populations. I can not escape the picture of letting all the livestock in the UK being made free range. (pictures of cows, horses & pigs etc outside the front door or in the local school yard)


    Anyways I will add my "belief" to the count. I eat what I eat because I like to have a varied diet. I chose, when poss & affordable, to eat ethicaly raised animals. (I'm voteing by market pressures) I feel that my MY BODY wishes a mixed diet to be operating normaly for me.


    I will never force my beliefs down anyones throat the same way I'd never accept another opinion without questioning it first.


    I hope that people will allow others the freedom of choice over many things not just what food to eat. Live & let live is what I am saying.


    Peace every one

  • Quote from Paul

    I also find that as soon as I tell people that I'm a veggie I often get a load of piss taking, people tempting me with burgers, asking me why, arguing about how natural meat is, and generally making a fuss when there previously wasn't any. Sometimes to the point where I don't want people to find out because it creates too much fuss.

    However, omnivores in this thread seem to say that we are ramming our opinions down people's throats - but surely a debate about "veggie versus omni" should have both sides of the argument in it, and not just defensive omnivores slating veggies for attacking their "lifestyle"?



    Nooooo, well not me anyhows..
    I wouldnt give you a burger..well, unless it were a veggie one.


    Becs was veggie for years n i had to respect that n shop n cook appropriatly.


    but often i find the same as you but opposite..


    veggies n vegans trying to tell me i need to change..
    maybe i do .
    but thas my choice n my perogative ..surely


    just as its yours to not eat meat.

  • Eventually we want to have an acre or so and raise our own poutry and pigs - thats the main meat we eat anyway - and so know that our meat is happy meat. There's a food chain, and we're above other things in it... but I don't believe for a second that it's right to treat animals badly - things like intensivly farmed fish and battery chickens just make me sick - I'd rather spend a small fortune on a free range, woodland chicken (knowing that I'd get at least 3 meals out of it) than £2 on some nasty stuff than lived its life in pain.

  • When on my own I tend to eat anything, However I always respect other people's choices when in their company. That's just good manners. I smoke.. but I wouldn't smoke in a non smokers house.

    The ethics of killing animals for food is an interesting one. It has been suggested in this thread that it is unacceptable but then suggested that kiling bugs and eating eggs is ok. So is it just big animals that count?

    In some parts of the world growing veg is not very practical..and on some islands fish is the only sustainable food source.

    yes we have choice here. choice is important. Now of course if everyone made the same choices in life..how boring that would be.

  • Its always going to be a sour topic between people and their diets.
    I eat meat, but dont eat anything thats be treated like shit. I avoid things that have animal products in e.g gelatine etc.
    I used to be vegetarian a few years ago but stopped it, its fair enough people wanting to be vegetarian but you need to make sure you have your diet 100% right or you could fuck your body up.

    Maybe alot of peoples diets is the way they see animals, i see animals as food. Im sure alot of vegetarians/vegans etc would see animals as a fellow being.

    Just out of interest do the vegetarians on here drink cows milk? Surely if you think of the animals you wouldnt drink cows milk because of the way cows are generally treated.
    Same as eggs, is it wrong to eat free range eggs as you can never be quite sure that the egg wasnt fertilised

  • I stopped eating meat when I was 15, but I still eat fish so I guess I'm an inbetweenie. I can't remember why I stopped eating meat but my main objection now is the amount of land and feed it takes to produce meat nowadays, it just isn't efficient or sustainable any more.

  • Quote from Paul

    I also find that as soon as I tell people that I'm a veggie I often get a load of piss taking, people tempting me with burgers, asking me why, arguing about how natural meat is, and generally making a fuss when there previously wasn't any. Sometimes to the point where I don't want people to find out because it creates too much fuss.


    Absolutely. I never walk up to someone and say "Hi, I'm a vegetarian" but the number of people who, when they find out (usually at an event involving food when I have to say "actually, I don't eat meat") become really quite aggressive in their justification for eating meat... it's natural, human beings can't survive without meat, if everyone in the world was a vegetarian... etc.


    I never criticise other people's dietary choices but I am rarely given that same level of respect by meat-eaters, I'm afraid.

  • Quote from Paul

    I also find that as soon as I tell people that I'm a veggie I often get a load of piss taking, people tempting me with burgers, asking me why, arguing about how natural meat is, and generally making a fuss when there previously wasn't any. Sometimes to the point where I don't want people to find out because it creates too much fuss.


    Which is just as crap as all omnivores being branded as cruel, and supporting an inhumane trade when they are also trying to support the ethical treatment of animals... ;) What you decide to have as a diet should not be open for ridicule... it is more than a bit childish...

    Quote from Paul

    However, omnivores in this thread seem to say that we are ramming our opinions down people's throats - but surely a debate about "veggie versus omni" should have both sides of the argument in it, and not just defensive omnivores slating veggies for attacking their "lifestyle"?


    No what I was saying (I can't speak for others) is that it is really insulting when I am branded as being inhumane... and supporting the mass production of meat... when I have stated that I ONLY buy free range/organic meat.. and also have MASSIVE issues with the mass production of meat.. I also said that it is the attitude that most vegans/veggies display when discussing their opinions with meat eaters is really insulting and not helping to change the way we produce meat... A lot of meat eater know that intensive farming is cruel and are doing what they can to speak out against these methods... I care about the meat I decide to eat.. and refuse to eat any animal that has suffered as a result of my choice to eat meat... I have no problem with discussing these opinions... I just don't like being lumped in with meat eaters who don't give a shit about animal rights...;)

  • Quote from campertess

    I dont like animal cruelty but i also agree with Dragonz there ....
    How do we know plants dont feel pain when picked/cut/cropped prior to being eaten ?


    Some scientists did a study on that a few years back and found that plants react not only to being eaten/chopped but to someone entering the room with the intention of doing so ... so, I'm very much of the opinion that they do feel just as deeply as animals and that we're just not aware of it because they don't communicate on a level we can understand.

    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.


    Jiddu Krishnamurti

  • Quote from Firinne

    Some scientists did a study on that a few years back and found that plants react not only to being eaten/chopped but to someone entering the room with the intention of doing so ... so, I'm very much of the opinion that they do feel just as deeply as animals and that we're just not aware of it because they don't communicate on a level we can understand.



    can you remember where you read about that, sounds like an interesting study

  • Atomik those were my personal views and experiences. You might have found someone brow beating you about your choice to eat meat did change your mind but I have never found it to work. I feel a person will only change if they want to change.


    As to whether me stopping someone from torturing a cat could be claimed to be me "shove your opinions in their face".. well if thats how you want to see it thats up to you. Yes I would step in and stop them. If by doing that and not trying to sway peoples opinion off eating meat by telling them over and over that by eating meat they are cruel and heartless, you think I'm a hypocrite... well you are entitled to your opinion. I just prefer a different way to get my message across and find it far more successful.


    Each to their own path.