Carrying knives

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  • I don't see how jailing anyone caught carrying a knife is going to make any difference.


    To combat youth knife crime you need to look at why people are carrying knives in the first place...and aim to do something about that...

  • Quote from Kaiya

    I don't see how jailing anyone caught carrying a knife is going to make any difference.

    To combat youth knife crime you need to look at why people are carrying knives in the first place...and aim to do something about that...



    so true.. and as for making hospitals report all knife injuries.. kids not going to go to hospital now!

  • We should scrap our Young offenders institutions and sling them into adult prisons where the regimes are often harder, if not inhumane. If they slip up just once, they would find themselves being battered and restrained by the Riot Squad, and dragged to "The block", or segregation unit. And where everyone hates you on a daily basis and there is a tangible threat of violence.

    In YOIs, there are often facilities which include gymnasiams, saunas, massive football fields and mobility schemes, where an inmate has the chance to go into society toward the end of sentence. Also, prison officers who operate YOIs are more often than not, softer on their prisoners.

    Knife crime is out of control, but it isn't really all the kids fault. The buck lays with the parents, who are very often useless and on the dole.

  • can i be so bold as to say its society and the system rather than blaming the parents or kids??


    We live in a system that promotes fear and violence, knife crime is definitely a poor/working class/underclass thing. Havent seen a toff with a knife in my life, am thinking there may be some kind of crazy link here.


    As for locking them up, well, thats the answer for most problems isnt it.Through them in jail. Jail doesnt really work. I say we need to reconnect our communities, build social justice from the grass roots up, anything handed down from on high to fix things is always gonna come with a high price or just wont work.(but may well make money for buisness)

  • I used to carry a knife.The threat of jail meant nothing coz,ya know,I wasnt planning on getting caught.
    That seems to be something people struggle to get their heads round.'Law abiding' folk might think twice about doing something if theres a chance theyll end up in jail but for youngsters whose lives/communities are outside the law anyway the threat of legal sanctions doesnt have the same power.And if most of the people you know are in and out of jail it doesnt seem such a dire prospect anyway.


    I carried for the same reason a lot of my peers did,it made me feel *safer* .The reality of life in some areas,for some young people,is that the world is dangerous and violent and carrying a weapon is a way of 'evening the odds'.Setting up self defence classes in problem areas would help-if youngsters are more confident of their abilities to defend themselves theyre less likely to carry a weapon.Less weapons on the streets,and more youngsters with self belief,means less knife crime and so less fear.We cant do anything to change things until we reduce the fear.And that has to be a grass roots thing coz these polititians and middle englanders are from a different planet,they have no idea of the reality of life for these youngsters.

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    We should scrap our Young offenders institutions and sling them into adult prisons where the regimes are often harder, if not inhumane. If they slip up just once, they would find themselves being battered and restrained by the Riot Squad, and dragged to "The block", or segregation unit. And where everyone hates you on a daily basis and there is a tangible threat of violence.


    ...yeah, that's a brilliant idea. Nice one :rolleyes:

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    We should scrap our Young offenders institutions and sling them into adult prisons where the regimes are often harder, if not inhumane. If they slip up just once, they would find themselves being battered and restrained by the Riot Squad, and dragged to "The block", or segregation unit. And where everyone hates you on a daily basis and there is a tangible threat of violence.


    That is all very well and all...but they are just kids.
    Kids that feel like they have nowhere to go in life...


    Plus i think all that would do is make these kids harder...


    what they actually need is youth teams..youth schemes...productive things to do that give them oppertunitys in life...
    areas that have free youth groups that teach music software and promote graffiti art and things that street kids can relate to say that there is a reduced number of knife crime in these areas...
    its not a complete soloution to the problem..but its better then shoveing them in an adult prison.

  • I think that there should be a jail term for the unlawful holding of a knife, bladed or sharply pointed weapon of offence. It is not a singular system and the reason that it has public attention is for the other party to have a go at the party in office in a main stream public show of how bad 'our' streets have become blah blah.

    There needs to be other systems in place rather than just a penal threat of none conforming to a social standard of behaviour.

    Because there is no great system in place does not mean that there should be no fall out for having a knife. It will not stop all as was well presented by Medusa but it will stop some.

  • Jailing kids for carrying knives will only create an army of hardened thugs when they get out as they will have no job, no home, no future and no hope

  • There are quite a few youth clubs in Lewisham and surrounding areas like Camberwell, Brixton and Elephant and Castle. Also, we have a massive entertainment complex in North Greenwich. I don't believe kids kill because they are simply bored. Most of the reason is because they can get away with it and they are now intelligent enough to cotton on. But what the solution is, I think parents should be taking more responsibility. Many parents really are feckless. They let their kids stay out till eleven at night, they turn a blind eye to the odd spliff and they say: "Stay out as long as you like,do what you want, so long as I don't have to do parent stuff". Then their kids get stabbed to death. Then the parents get on BBC News and start angling for sympathy in the great swauve of modern society.

    But this is just my opinion.

  • I think this whole knife crime in the papers EVERYDAY saga is just a way to put more fear into the country to slowly push in a complete police state . kids growing up on viloent tv and movies really doesn't help at all, if anything it inducts them into very negative mindstates.

    I think it's everyones duty to help sort this problem out especially the extremely wealthy as they have the £ to build schemes to help these people in poor situations who end up involved in violent crime. So they can build futures where there can earn £ and not feel the need to escape there bleak reality by living life like it's a film to detatch themselves from their reality , where they see the wealthy on tv and films and know thats never gonna be them so its rubbed in there faces making them depressed and frustrated then selling drugs can become a good £ making option rather than being a bin man .

    also yes it is parents fault because there are alot of people out there who really shouldn't have kids as there have a serious lack of morals and very bad attitudes that get passed onto their kids wich i think inturn become worse that the parents and the cycle just keeps repeating its self like that.

    just my opinion.



  • I have to disagree somewhat. The papers are not making this up nor are they causing mass hysteria by constant news of the same thing. And I say this because what they are reporting is real and accurate. Yesterday another kid was murdered by the hands of feral youths. The parents are to blame because they are the parents and should take responsibility for their kids whereabouts etc. And not to try and demonise parents as it is clear the government could do more to help parents and lone parents. But the facts still stay the same. This country is turning into the killing fields. We are losing our kids to knife crime and it is now on epidemic proportions. And incidently, society has turned into a ruthless mob as two police officers were beaten up by a mob as a result of a police man asking a teenager to pick up her rubbish. This was in Croydon.

    And as the killings continue, I wouldn't be surprised if five more kids were killed by the end of next week.

  • Quote

    The parents are to blame because they are the parents and should take responsibility for their kids whereabouts


    I don't think it is allways the parents fault. In many cases parents have alot to answer for, but not every parent knows what their kid is doing all the time. Hell i know my parents didn't. I did loads of things i kept a secret from my parents.

  • I'm sure I've posted on this in another thread. Don't we already HAVE laws about this? It's called "carrying an offensive weapon". I'm sure there used to be laws about the size of a knife you could carry as well, I believe it was max 5" blade but could be wrong. If necessary they could easily add an extra category resulting in a stiffer sentence for an edged weapon as opposed to an iron bar but I can't see the sense. Firstly, the latest crime figures I've seen suggest that this crime is just more visible at the mo because the papers and therefore the politicians are all over it (probably easier than dealing with soaring fuel prices etc) and that it's not really increasing, secondly because we already lock up so many people that it's a joke, something else obviously needs to be done and as someone else said, said a twat to prison and he becomes a nasty hard twat, I saw when I was growing up, the stupidest idiot bully in school got sent to borstal, when he came out he wasn't just a stupid bully anymore he was a nasty bastard. Then we had willie whitelaw i believe with his "short sharp shock" treatment which acheived precisely nothing. I've just realised that I could have been sent down for five years last week cos I forgot to empty me pockets on a trip into tewkesbury and had me penknife on me. The knife I used for everything from hacking back brambles to slicing cheese and certainly don't need for self defence, even if I could find it and unfold it before I was attacked, which is unlikely.

  • Hi Julian.
    .... And how many times while crewing at Tewkesbury did I find myself saying to one of the teenagers on crew "Don't force that, cut the cable tie"!
    "You mean not one out of the five of you has got a penknife??!
    "How can you work without a penknife"?
    Well I haven't got one now either because I lent it to someone who needed it.
    A small knife is a tool that anyone not working in an office is likely to need several times a day.
    Are we being told that to carry a small knife for everyday needs is going to be illegal?
    I'm not sure that I can make sence of this.
    I could kill someone with almost anything in my toolbox. Are they going to ban screwdrivers, hammers, hacksaws (with blade or just the frame), not to mention chainsaws and brushcutters. The bolt cropers would make a right mess as would a large spanner. And before you rush to comment put down that tractor slowly, turn off the engine, step away from it, admit that it could be used in a life threatening manner. Do not go home and cut the front hedge with shears while standing on the pavement or you will be instantly re-arrested.
    Do I need to go on?

  • My friend was stabbed in Crystal Palace last week, because he could not remember his pin code when the four 16 - 17 year olds stole his cashcard... That was not self defence, that was not because society or commuity is up in the air... That was because they did not get thier own way, scared a poor bloke who could not remember his number in the panic..

    As far as I am concerned a stint in a nasty rough jail would serve them all right.. Not one with a Wii and cable telly.

    Ok I know I may be taking this personally.

  • Quote from moyne

    My friend was stabbed in Crystal Palace last week, because he could not remember his pin code when the four 16 - 17 year olds stole his cashcard... That was not self defence, that was not because society or commuity is up in the air... That was because they did not get thier own way, scared a poor bloke who could not remember his number in the panic..

    As far as I am concerned a stint in a nasty rough jail would serve them all right.. Not one with a Wii and cable telly.

    Ok I know I may be taking this personally.


    You might, and people who stab people are undoubtedly very nasty and need dealing with, but as feanor says, almost anything could be used for the purpose. I could in fact kill without any help from a knife, and if anyone attacked me with one, well, they'd regret it. The point is that I'm not likely to, for any reason, and rounding people up isn't going to solve anything. And I'm sorry for your loss. Genuinely.

  • He is actually ok and kicking, but he had just finished work was on his way home, and not only was he mugged but then he was stabbed... Why has that become the answer to every thing in the eyes of todays youths. Yes you can kill with out the aid of a blade or gun, but why would you want too..?

  • Ok, what happens if feanor is cutting his plants in the front garden, gets attacked, uses the shears in self defence... who gets in trouble then? and whats the justice in that? He is not "on purpose" carrying shears around?

  • Quote from moyne

    He is actually ok and kicking, but he had just finished work was on his way home, and not only was he mugged but then he was stabbed... Why has that become the answer to every thing in the eyes of todays youths. Yes you can kill with out the aid of a blade or gun, but why would you want too..?


    That's rather the point. I wouldn't want to. Ever. Being able to puts me in a better position to look at a teenage mugger and tell him not to be so silly. And there would be no need for anybody to get killed. These kids are showing off, being made to see how foolish it is must be a better alternative. If I was your friend, or anybody else really, and I was worried about it, I'd take some self defence courses, particularly edged weapon defence. And if someone attacked Feanor while he was trimming his hedge, then he would be likely to have an accident wouldn't he? You should never run with scissors you know...and if feanor put his arms up to protect himself, forgetting about the shears in his hand, as you would if someone was trying to stab you, well.....I'll leave it to you. The best plan is generally still to distract the fucker then run like hell yelling though

  • I agree, but I just think it has become a sad sad state of affairs when it has come to this situation. and you need to be 100% on the ball and looking over your shoulder 24 hours aday. I may be old fashioned... but still.

  • Quote from moyne

    I agree, but I just think it has become a sad sad state of affairs when it has come to this situation. and you need to be 100% on the ball and looking over your shoulder 24 hours aday. I may be old fashioned... but still.


    Agreed, but I don't think that it really has come to that state of affairs, the latest stats say that it's safer now than at any time since 1981. There have always been places it was well to avoid. The biggest problem is fear, which the media, cameron etcetera all feed off and it only gives kids an inflated ego and encourages them. Sounds like these kids are fed up and feel isolated and ignored. I wonder why?

  • I can think of a situation where I would like to have a knife that is within easy reach and ready to use at a moments notice. When I was sailing I would always carry a diving knife with me so that I could at a moments notice pull it out and cut any rigging that may hold me under. A bit of rope can be replaced, but a life can't. It is my opinion that anybody who does outdoor persuits or any activity involving ropes should have a knife on them at all times.


    Matt

  • Quote from moyne

    He is actually ok and kicking, but he had just finished work was on his way home, and not only was he mugged but then he was stabbed... Why has that become the answer to every thing in the eyes of todays youths. Yes you can kill with out the aid of a blade or gun, but why would you want too..?



    Your friend was lucky. Crystal Palace for me is one place I have barely explored. Apart from the main park where you can see a clear view of suburbia.

    I have a personal rule, don't go out at night unless you really have to. I was one who would wander about the streets of Lewisham just wandering. I got into a few scraps, got mugged, got hustled and had been threatened with shocking violence. It is tempting at times to go wandering around, sometimes it is just too hot to stay indoors, especially in the summer. In 2002 and 2003, I would wander around the streets after dark. Nowadays I would be too scared. Sadly the state we are living in. A kid just got stabbed yards from his home. It just shows that there seems to be no end in sight for these spate of stabbings. What is worse, we have Labour government in charge of making our streets safer.

  • Quote from Flamboyant Queen

    Your friend was lucky. Crystal Palace for me is one place I have barely explored. Apart from the main park where you can see a clear view of suburbia.

    I have a personal rule, don't go out at night unless you really have to. I was one who would wander about the streets of Lewisham just wandering. I got into a few scraps, got mugged, got hustled and had been threatened with shocking violence. It is tempting at times to go wandering around, sometimes it is just too hot to stay indoors, especially in the summer. In 2002 and 2003, I would wander around the streets after dark. Nowadays I would be too scared. Sadly the state we are living in. A kid just got stabbed yards from his home. It just shows that there seems to be no end in sight for these spate of stabbings. What is worse, we have Labour government in charge of making our streets safer.


    Don't be stupid, you weren't around in the tory years, they were utter shite in every way- oh and the cops used to make it up as they went along too. Ever heard of the inter city firm? Football hooligans who beat people up at random and left them on the floor with knife wounds and god knows what else and a calling card. Tories bleat about crime cos it makes them sound like the party of law and order. It's utter bullshit.

  • Quote from julianthegypsy

    Don't be stupid, you weren't around in the tory years, they were utter shite in every way- oh and the cops used to make it up as they went along too. Ever heard of the inter city firm? Football hooligans who beat people up at random and left them on the floor with knife wounds and god knows what else and a calling card. Tories bleat about crime cos it makes them sound like the party of law and order. It's utter bullshit.



    No, I am not being stupid. Labour government suck. And they seem to be worse than Tory. I may not have been old enough to experience tory, but my mother did and that has greatly influenced me. Tories don't bleat about crime to make themselves look good. They do it because Labour won't and they won't accept the sheer scale of the current knife epidemic, unless we have mass demos and marches. Even then, I doubt Gordon Brown really understands what it is like living on a rundown state. I
    would just love it if Gordon brown spent one week on an estate. He is good at talking, but when it comes to action, Labour fail to deliver.Soundbytes and dialogue is what many can expect from this Government.

    However, there are areas in which Labour are good and I think there are good reasons why we should be in the EU. One being, we get the money to fund training projects and clubs for young people, to improve their chances of employment and to give them a place to hang out and a purpose in life.

    Tory and Labour are as bad as each other. But for once, maybe the shift in political preference may be swaying more to the Tories. And don't forget London has a Tory Mayor. The people has spoken.

    Additional: Living near Crystal Palace and in the general area around Southeast London, I do know what I am saying when I state that I am now more afraid of walking the streets at night. Wasn't always the case, as I used to do so in 2002-03. But in the last few years, knife crime is beyond what we as a society are used to. In the words of parents of victims- enough is enough.

  • Quote from Fëanor

    Hi Julian.
    .... And how many times while crewing at Tewkesbury.......



    You could buy all kinds of weaponry at Tewkesbury, for re-enactment purposes. I overheard 2 German 'Yorkists' debating the legality of the knives on sale at the festival. Obviously the 'intent' is that people only interested in war re-enactments were going to buy and use them, but who's to say what they areplanning on using them for. Where does the law stand on selling things like this?

  • Quote from Nutty Jo

    You could buy all kinds of weaponry at Tewkesbury, for re-enactment purposes. I overheard 2 German 'Yorkists' debating the legality of the knives on sale at the festival. Obviously the 'intent' is that people only interested in war re-enactments were going to buy and use them, but who's to say what they areplanning on using them for. Where does the law stand on selling things like this?



    Reminds me of a few years ago(well 15) when a guy called King Arthur was in court in Salisbury defending his carrying of the good sword Excalibor in public places:clap: