the right to worship without protest

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  • At the weekend i went to an anual event in a beautiful part of Wales know and the pagan camp out. I had a wonderful time but sadly it almost got called off.



    Seems the local christian community were threatening turning up and protesting to stop us enjoying our time there.


    This makes me so angry. Why do they feel they have the right to do this? We would never dream of standing outside their churches making them uncomfortable about going in. Why do they do this? Iv seen it happen twice now, once at witchfest where they stood outside singing and praying during an anual event where we have workshops, lectures, music, stalls that dosnt affect anyone else, its all indoors and tickets rather pricy so its not something people just walking by would pop in and be converted if thats what there worried about. Another time a group of christians turned up to our Lammas ceramony. This involves a bbq, musicians gathering in a field (always pre-arranged by the owners first) a fire to sit round and chat with friends, some ritual work, guided meditation, nothing threatening to any passers by at all yet they had to turn up and make us feel uncomfortable (or at least try to). One of our members went over to the group standing singing hymns and invited them to come over and join us for some food, they refused and continued singing loudly and praying.


    I find it very rude, let people worship and practise their faith. No one has the right to take that away from anyone.


    Blessed be


    Tina

  • I wish these people who protest and behave so badly would stop calling themselves Christians because that is not a very Christian way to behave. These small-minded, self-righteous types drive me nuts. I am a Christian but would never dream of doing such a horrid thing; in fact, would probably wish to join in and discover more about a different kind of spirituality.

  • Quote from muffy1956

    I wish these people who protest and behave so badly would stop calling themselves Christians because that is not a very Christian way to behave. These small-minded, self-righteous types drive me nuts. I am a Christian but would never dream of doing such a horrid thing; in fact, would probably wish to join in and discover more about a different kind of spirituality.



    And you would be most welcome:hug:

  • Quote from muffy1956

    I wish these people who protest and behave so badly would stop calling themselves Christians because that is not a very Christian way to behave. These small-minded, self-righteous types drive me nuts. I am a Christian but would never dream of doing such a horrid thing; in fact, would probably wish to join in and discover more about a different kind of spirituality.


    ditto. I think there's a lot we (ie people in the church) could learn from the way members of other religions conduct themselves. Things like the way people treat each other and respect for the environment which are so present in paganism and buddhism etc but sadly lacking in today's church. :(


    I can't believe they ignored your invitation to go and eat with you, that's so rude.

  • Quote from Ses

    I think there's a lot we (ie people in the church) could learn from the way members of other religions conduct themselves.

    One Christian rule of thumb I always liked was the old "what would Jesus do?" question. Seems to me that if Christians stopped to ask themselves this question, it would seriously reduce acts of intolerance and prejudice. Sometimes - even as a non-christian - I ask myself this question about my own actions. ;)

  • Quote from Ses

    ditto. I think there's a lot we (ie people in the church) could learn from the way members of other religions conduct themselves. Things like the way people treat each other and respect for the environment which are so present in paganism and buddhism etc but sadly lacking in today's church. :(


    "Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." James 4:4.


    Well it says this in the Bible... So it's hardly surprising that some christians do not have the foresight to look after the planet... Could this be because they think that they will be saved and it is all part of gods plan? ;)

    Quote from ses

    I can't believe they ignored your invitation to go and eat with you, that's so rude.


    Very rude and very unchristian.. But from my experience not that unusual!

  • Quote from tekno

    "Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." James 4:4.


    Well it says this in the Bible... So it's hardly surprising that some christians do not have the foresight to look after the planet... Could this be because they think that they will be saved and it is all part of gods plan? ;)


    That James guy sounds a bit of a moron to me :screwy:


    Although someone once said to me "You should never be afraid of Hell, because you're already living in it!".
    I think that was more a reference to human society than the world itself though. If so, I agree with that.

  • Quote from DarK_RoniN

    That James guy sounds a bit of a moron to me :screwy:


    I concur... :D But you will find all manner of odd things written in the bible...:insane:

  • Quote from NiceDream

    Seems the local christian community were threatening turning up and protesting to stop us enjoying our time there.


    I find that attitude totally appalling - people were worshiping the earth way before the advent of Christianity so why do these people have the right to assume that they are the only religion allowed.
    If they even refuse to come and have a cuppa and a chat to see how you operate they are not only bad mannered but displaying a total lack of tolerance toward others.
    I've never been to a pagan gathering - I think it's time to do so to find out their views...if you don't try to find out you have no right to criticise.

  • Never forget that the tolerance of Christianity AS A WHOLE only extends to its brother religions and the ancient ones


    Whenever I see some drunk damn-fool Irishman in a green hat blathering on about dear St Patrick I want to take their glass and mash it into their face - St.Pat, the man who cleared the snakes from Ireland


    How many people ever realise that the Snake was the symbol of the Pagan faiths? Patrick.. hell, thats not even right, he was a Romano-Briton from Bristol who called himself The Patricius - The Boss - and his followers were genocides, they started a long European tradition of ethnic cleansing, conversion by the sword and expulsion as they chased the pagan communities out of ireland to make way for their own faith


    Probably in vengeance for his kidnapping by the same Pagan peoples and subsequent sale into slavery....



    Christianity sees Paganism as a threat, and rightly. A threat to their 'rightful authority'. Britain is a Pagan isle. Jesus was born thousands of miles away into a land and culture that have absolutely nothing British about them, and little relevance to our lives.



    OK - obviously today's pagans don't practice a faith that's really based on the ancient pagan faiths but it probably has enough in common to alarm the Christians, or at least their more fervent members.... but not enough in common to justify recognition as another valid faith

  • Quote from Stardusts Dad

    I find that attitude totally appalling - people were worshiping the earth way before the advent of Christianity so why do these people have the right to assume that they are the only religion allowed.
    If they even refuse to come and have a cuppa and a chat to see how you operate they are not only bad mannered but displaying a total lack of tolerance toward others.
    I've never been to a pagan gathering - I think it's time to do so to find out their views...if you don't try to find out you have no right to criticise.



    If you look at the pagan federation website for your area you should find your local moot, this is just a social evening in a pub usualy where people meet up, drink, chat, sometimes there is a bit of a talk by someone who comes along to share knowledge, start a discussion group etc. But yeah do go along and find out more. Local moots always a good place to start.

  • Quote from Digitalpiracy




    OK - obviously today's pagans don't practice a faith that's really based on the ancient pagan faiths



    so what do you feel it is based on if not the ancient pagan faiths?

  • Quote from NiceDream

    so what do you feel it is based on if not the ancient pagan faiths?


    I have nothing against Wicca or modern paganism or indeed modern druidism but they represent a mash-up of various elements of the religions of antiquity - a lot of the original pagans were worshippers exclusively of the Norse gods, who had followers in these isles long before the Danelaw and the establishment of viking rule in the North, but modern pagans are as likely to pray to various spirits, guardians and even to concepts as to Thor, Loki and their ilk - despite the fact that the Danes were the last Pagans to fall beneath the swords of Christianity. I don't resent what Aelfred and his sons did to reunite England under Saxon rule in the 9th century but they certainly destroyed an entire way of life


    elements of the ancient Celtic faiths are, I understand, found in modern paganism but so little survives to be known of those days that its essentially orphaned rituals that have lost their context (Our main knowledge of the Celts comes through Roman accounts translated and transcribed by Bede and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, and prior to the 4th century BC we have absolutely nothing.. but many of the Roman accounts of British ritual passed to them through trade with their colonies in Armorica/Brittany in modernday France tell frankly hair-raising tales)


    I guess the best way I can illustrate my point is to note the examples of Stonehenge, Avebury and a myriad of other sites adopted by modern-day Pagans for their rituals: We have no absolute knowledge of the original purposes of those monuments and no certainty that the rites practiced there today have any resemblance of those practiced in the time before Christ

  • Wicca is something different, a modern organised practice based on traditional paganism and magic ritual. Paganism is all about worshiping nature, celebrating the sabats, working with the elements. Some individuals choose to worship particular gods and godesses, and many i know still choose to worship the Norse gods. At the end of the day though its all down to being an earth based pathway. I personaly dislike labels but i guess if labels have to be used then i would choose pagan to describe my pathway.

  • before I continue I should point out that I mean no criticism nor denigration of any form of Paganism


    ....well that kinda defines my point - Norse Paganism has become conflated with earth-cults and occult practices. The Norsemen didn't worship the Earth, they worshipped their Gods and constructed places of worship to them, such as the standing stone at Thundersley (the name of which is a corruption of the Old English for Thor's Grove)


    They would not have considered the celebrants of the Solstices to share a faith with them, in fact they'd alost certainly consider them a useful source of slave labour


    Lkewise the mixing-in of 'magic' - that's entirely 17th-century Occultism in origin and largely irrelevant to any of the religious practices that genuinely have survived (Christmas for instance. It was moved from october to a few days after the Solstice, probably to capitalise on an existing feast. This was pretty controversial at the time .. which is why not all nations celebrate it at the same time even now)




    Sorry, this probably sounds like I'm totally dissing people's sincerely held views. Wish I hadn't got into this now.....

  • Quote from Digitalpiracy


    Sorry, this probably sounds like I'm totally dissing people's sincerely held views. Wish I hadn't got into this now.....


    However - for people like myself who really don't know much about these things it's useful to have as many views as possible...otherwise we become too narrow in our views and guess who we end up like........



  • hummm id have to disagree on that im afraid.

  • Yeah. I know


    The whole point of religion is not to question. Those chanting Christians saw it pretty much the same way, although obviously in a much more offensive manner.


    I didn't come into this thread to undermine a faith, just to comment on it. I think this'll be my first and last contribution to this particular board

  • Quote from Digitalpiracy

    Yeah. I know

    The whole point of religion is not to question. Those chanting Christians saw it pretty much the same way, although obviously in a much more offensive manner.

    I didn't come into this thread to undermine a faith, just to comment on it. I think this'll be my first and last contribution to this particular board



    Your entitled to have your say, no offence taken. Each to their own. I feel religion needs to be questioned, you cant just practise a faith because it is written or because they just do, there has to be meaning behind it.

  • You might like to seek out the leaders of these religious bigots and point out that such behaviour is in definace of their own scripture.Look up
    Romans 12:18.


    My enthusiasm for reading the Bible dried up after reading Exodus 25:5.

  • Quote

    ....well that kinda defines my point - Norse Paganism has become conflated with earth-cults and occult practices. The Norsemen didn't worship the Earth, they worshipped their Gods and constructed places of worship to them, such as the standing stone at Thundersley (the name of which is a corruption of the Old English for Thor's Grove)

    They would not have considered the celebrants of the Solstices to share a faith with them, in fact they'd alost certainly consider them a useful source of slave labour


    You're right.


    One of the things about pagans (and why I hate the blanket term) is the the divisivness of the sects. There are pagan types that follow things who would scoff at how others fluff up or dilulte a pantheon. Others who are more psychological about their paganism scoff at hard core polytheists or recreationists. So your argument isn't really offensive - it's the kind of things pagans argue about all the time!

  • Quote from SithInKnots

    You're right.

    One of the things about pagans (and why I hate the blanket term) is the the divisivness of the sects. There are pagan types that follow things who would scoff at how others fluff up or dilulte a pantheon. Others who are more psychological about their paganism scoff at hard core polytheists or recreationists. So your argument isn't really offensive - it's the kind of things pagans argue about all the time!



    Not the circle of pagan friends i hang round with, no arguments there although now and then someone will try and kick one off, we just blank it and get on with the friendship we have. Were from all corners of the pagan pathway as well, theres wiccans, druids, chaos practisioners, solitaries, covern members etc. No arguments about our faith at all.