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UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • the other day me and my friends were talking about cars and stuff and i said i would use buses and trains as much as poss even if i had a car and everyone else didnt really understand that, and it turns out like none of them cared about the environment and i thought that yeh a lot of people dont really know what to do to help and it often doesnt occur to people but these guys just didnt care at all and said they didnt need to worry cos nothings going to happen in their lifetime. is this just people my age or are there loads of people that always think like this? (i don't mean you lot lol, just other people)

  • I agree with you 110% I dont prefer to use buses or trains but everytime im in a car i just think well i could be on a train or bus going to same way and saving a little bit of this planet. People are silly for thinking like that, maybe you should say well it wont be you that its hurting but think of your grand children, great grandchildren etc. That might make them wake up. I hate it when i go out at rush hour and all i can smell is burning fuel, and see 1 person in a car, even people that live down the same road as me that work in the same place drive on their own!!!! It drives me mad - but there isnt much that can be done.

  • I think part of the problem is that people feel powerless. Caring is all very well, but what can we actually do? Personally, I honestly believe we're stuffed. I still recycle, car share etc etc though. But I can understand where the apathy comes from. However, I think anyone who believes they'll not live to see the consequences is in for a seriously nasty surprise.

  • Cars are difficult to dissuade people from using Hannah...all to often it isnt that we dont care about the environment...its just theres not an alternative for a lot of us... i couldnt use public transport for my work..although if i'm heading into the city i tend to ditch the car and tube it...i also live in the middle of nowhere...so even for personal use i'm not walking 4 miles to a bus stop only to find there isnt one for another hour...

    I think the best we can do is go for a car thats economical...and be sensible and avoid uneccesary trips... others may view cars differently...but public transport just doesnt fit in with how i run my day...

    i think other things could be done like journey sharing....all too often i'm stuck in miles of traffic and theres only ever the driver in a car that could seat 3+ passengers... school trips etc could be far better managed certainly...and firms should also encourage it where possible...

  • well yeah it wasnt just cars though it was everything. some people also said well its too late now so theres no point in trying. which is so stupid cos i feel like yes we have gone too far but we can at leats try and stop it from going too much further. and yeah i know what its like living in the middle of know where, im half a mile from a bus stop but it stops at 6 so after that its impossible to get anywhere without a car.

  • I have to agree with the other comments here. People I've spoken to say it's pretty much out of their hands, and anyway they might get hit by a bus/tractor tomorrow so what do they care! Unfortunatly what it seems to descend into is that everybody is more than happy to rape the environment if it can benefit them... e.g. big housing estates, huge 4x4's that rarely go beyond the school run, etc.

    People and even governments are slowly becoming aware - indeed, not a day (or two!) goes by without me reading a story about the latest eco-good thing. If this trend continues, then maybe, just maybe - we may get away with a slap on the wrists rather than total destruction. Forgive me for not being hugely optimistic on this occasion though!

    Another issue is that being green may prove to be just a fashionable thing. It may be that the drive towards eco-friendliness may actually decline in the future rather than gain momentum!

  • Actually, on thinking about it again I do share the same viewpoint of the non-green types, in that "what can we do about it?". Because essentially, whatever I do is immaterial if the other 6bn people on the world are destroying the planet. A generation has been trying to educate our brethen and clearly with limited success.

    And yet, the reason I try to lead a green lifestyle myself is that I hate the way we live as a society so much that I simply cannot be doing with the mainstream. For this reason, if an eco-apocalypse does come I wouldn't feel somewhat sacrificially delighted that the world has finally got what's coming to them... I mean, who else here would love to see the likes of GWB all limp and powerless in the face of natures wrath!

    This post comes courtesy of a bit of a rant rather than any structured thoughts - glad to get that off my chest. ;)

  • And another thing!!!

    Government and society really needs to stop thinking "expansion" and "growth" and instead more "consolidation". Why do we need more and more people and houses and factory in this country? Just so we can make more money than other countries in Europe?

    This cannot continue indefinetly... and the word "sustainability" used by the authorities has become a joke pretty much handed out for any development or technology. Like when they were harping on about burning rubbish. Or when they built a new green development... FFS, it used to be fields and trees - building "green" developments this way could not be sustained forever could it! Where would you put all the wildlife???

    * deep breaths *

  • Quote from cymru_jules

    And another thing!!!

    Government and society really needs to stop thinking "expansion" and "growth" and instead more "consolidation".

    This is the heart of the problem. The entire capitalist model is predicated upon the concept of infinite growth - which is, by definition, unsustainable. The capitalist model simply doesn't account for a world where resources are finite. The trouble is, the world has been following this model for thousands of years. It's never been much of an issue (at least globally) until fairly recently. And of course, in the modern age, no single government is going to want to break the news to its citizens that the party can't go on forever. Especially in a global culture, where nations judge themselves by comapring their wealth to other nations. Which is why I think we're fucked. I can't imagine change taking place until its forced upon us. I mean replacing capitalism? Nobody's even seriously engaging in this conversation.

  • Yup... to the average numpty like me it seems obvious a little country like the UK can't compete with China, though I guess this is what having a united Europe is all about. But why bother - as a human race, the bigger we get the harder we fall!

  • I really don't think there's anything to worry about. Cars haven't had any major impact on the enviroment yet, and by the time that would happen there will be many more electric and corn powered cars. The enviroment has actually improved since the 70s, and with the recent advances of solar power, windmills, and fuel cells, I think it will continue to improve. If you still want to help the enviroment, you could get a motor scooter that gets 100mpg.

  • I dont drive but i do belive that people would be more inclined to use public transport if they didn't keep putting the prices up. In London they've hiked the fares up 3 times in as many years

  • Quote from Beyond-the-Clouds

    I really don't think there's anything to worry about. Cars haven't had any major impact on the enviroment yet

    Ummm, unless you count the massive destruction of the countryside undertaken to construct the road network!

  • Quote from Zim

    I dont drive but i do belive that people would be more inclined to use public transport if they didn't keep putting the prices up. In London they've hiked the fares up 3 times in as many years

    Yeah. Until we have cheap, reliable, widespread public transport, people will carry on using cars.

  • Quote from Hannah

    is this just people my age or are there loads of people that always think like this? (i don't mean you lot lol, just other people)



    More typical for your age group I would imagine. As offspring becomes more apparent attitudes tend to be less selfish.

  • Quote from Atomik

    Yeah. Until we have cheap, reliable, widespread public transport, people will carry on using cars.


    *shudder* cattle trucks :( no ta


    Give me walking or biking rather than that "you can go where we say and where we bribe the bus companies to go" route :(

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Atomik

    I think part of the problem is that people feel powerless. Caring is all very well, but what can we actually do? Personally, I honestly believe we're stuffed. I still recycle, car share etc etc though. But I can understand where the apathy comes from. However, I think anyone who believes they'll not live to see the consequences is in for a seriously nasty surprise.



    I think you give people too much credit.
    The truth might be that nothing will occur in Hannahs peers lifetime. I do think most are aware of something they can do, even if it is just switching there TV or computer off, rather than leaving it on stand by. I think older people will be aware that turning down there central heating by a few degrees will help. The simple truth imho is like Hannah fears : Not many people care. I'd say people do know but just can't be arsed.

    Ok Ok Ok if people do do [no jokes please] certain things, small things. They then do something else that completly makes there first action futile.

    I work in a big office [friendly large group http://www.astron.co.uk/index.asp?nav=Environment http://www.iso14000.com/ ] , and they have recycleing bins for cups and cans and paper. Guess how many times they get emptied ?: once every two weeks. Their is over 300 people working in this space i'll say that again.... 300.
    They [most] would rather just throw it all in the bin. They just can't be arsed to get up and do it. I end up rounding up all the cups on my teams tables. They think i'm nuts [again no jokes please :whistle: ].




    Quote

    Government and society really needs to stop thinking "expansion" and "growth" and instead more "consolidation". Why do we need more and more people and houses and factory in this country? Just so we can make more money than other countries in Europe?



    Why ? . If something is cheaper abroad we will buy that. Jobs go here and they need replaceing . I don't know if we are expanding , we might be just maintaining. The healthier we all are the more children we will have.
    Then we have unchecked legal immigration and asylum. Do you want too shut our borders ?...how about ''controlled immigration/asylum''.
    These 'new' people need housing and jobs. Hence [inpart] more houses and more factorys/offices.

    Quote

    This cannot continue indefinetly... and the word "sustainability" used by the authorities has become a joke pretty much handed out for any development or technology. Like when they were harping on about burning rubbish. Or when they built a new green development... FFS, it used to be fields and trees - building "green" developments this way could not be sustained forever could it! Where would you put all the wildlife???



    So you care more about animals than people ?.






    I don't even think i will even bother metioning Nuclear power as a part of our energy mix :whistle:

  • Quote from Atomik

    Yeah. Until we have cheap, reliable, widespread public transport, people will carry on using cars.



    We do. Well maybe not in the sticks. In the citys we do. I might be living in paradise though ?... i never nave a problem with public transport. their is always a bus i can catch to get me about. As long as i know the times ofcourse.

  • Quote from Atomik

    That's not gonna get me the 30 miles to Bristol from Glastonbury in 45 mins, is it?


    One of the biggest challenges on the sustainability agenda is sorting the "live one place, work 20/30/40 miles away" issue. If they go with what is now its unsust. If they go with public transport its yet more bloody centralisation (so you can guarantee "milton keynes" planning to go with it - that is, cities designed around road users not pedestrians) and even LESS personal input into our day to day lives. Also its bloody difficult doing a family shop on the bus (especially when fitting around work hours and school attendence).


    The only sustainable option is small multi use population centres that are largely autonomous and where everything is reachable on a day to day basis by walking. Or in another word, villages. That ain gonna happen though as the economy needs to be centralised to be competitive.....soooo what we end up with is greenwash public transport shipping workers from dormitory zones to industry zones to leisure zones etc etc and we all become even more machinelike in our living.


    :(

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    One of the biggest challenges on the sustainability agenda is sorting the "live one place, work 20/30/40 miles away" issue. If they go with what is now its unsust. If they go with public transport its yet more bloody centralisation (so you can guarantee "milton keynes" planning to go with it - that is, cities designed around road users not pedestrians) and even LESS personal input into our day to day lives. Also its bloody difficult doing a family shop on the bus (especially when fitting around work hours and school attendence).

    The only sustainable option is small multi use population centres that are largely autonomous and where everything is reachable on a day to day basis by walking. Or in another word, villages. That ain gonna happen though as the economy needs to be centralised to be competitive.....soooo what we end up with is greenwash public transport shipping workers from dormitory zones to industry zones to leisure zones etc etc and we all become even more machinelike in our living.

    :(



    I read about this i think. Build UP not OUT.

    I don't really want to live in a high rise :o

  • Quote from Hannah

    and said they didnt need to worry cos nothings going to happen in their lifetime. is this just people my age or are there loads of people that always think like this? (i don't mean you lot lol, just other people)



    My dad said exactly the same thing to me. He thinks there's nothing he can do because the US won't help, so he may as well do what he wants.

    Personally, i think we're doomed. Did anyone watch 'Can we save planet earth?' last night?? We need to level out our carbon emissions as they are now, if we want to reduce the effects of global warming. But that seems impossible, since despite everything else, since China have proposed to building a new power plant every week for the next 7 years! This will make them the biggest polluters in the world. Also emissions from aircrafts are going to double. There are so many things we need to do to level it out, i just can't see it happening at all. Norway have this offshore station where they're pumping carbon dioxide deep underground and storing it there. Apparantly there's enough space to store up to 100 years worth of emissions, but we need to build thousands of them to do that.. and still, it's only a short term solution really.

    In 2050, every other summer will be as hot as the one we had in 2003, that killed thousands of people. By 2100, the summers we're having now will seem cold in comparison to the ones they'll be having. The ice caps are melting and the rainforest is dying. The earth is screwed, and so many people don't give a shit. :(

  • When we talk about the earth being destroyed arn't we really talking about the environment we live in being destroyed? The earth will always be there, maybe not in the form we know but despite what we can throw at it, it will keep on going ( and when it does fail it won't be because of us). I don't believe we have the power to completly eradicate life on earth.
    So when people say they don't care about sustaining their planet they're really saying they don't care about people or the future of the human race (all obvious i know).
    So that granted, I think the only way to go is to allow the system to crash and be ready to look after ourselves ('cos most people won't have a clue how to live in the "real" world).
    Just allow for evolution then.

    The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so full of doubts

  • Quote from Elfriend

    So when people say they don't care about sustaining their planet they're really saying they don't care about people or the future of the human race (all obvious i know).



    It's not just humans that will suffer the consequences though, other species are already being affected by it. And i think when people talk about the earth, they mean the world as we know it. Therefore if everything was destroyed (but the earth was still there), then the world has still been destroyed. Personally, the thought that life will go on even after everything that's hear now is destroyed, doesn't give me relief in any way. Then again, the thought of it rejuvenating itself with no humans there to spoil it seems like a good thing. Lets hope the next evolving species end up nothing like us.

    I don't think anyone that survived would be able to look after themselves. It's all happening too quickly.... no time to evolve to adapt to high temperatures. Also, our food sources probably wouldn't survive, so how could we? So we'd either fry or drown, and if we survived that we'd starve.

  • ok I don't use busses or trainr that much but then i live out in the fens of Lincolnshire and the bus and train service is crap round here
    But I use my mountain bike to do village work and one of my motorbikes to do local work
    Now i have a friend who works for a petrol company and he tells me if we don't find more oil fields soon we only have 46 years left before we run out of oil but he belives in oil from plants (sugar beet and rape seed ) Hes quit a eco friendly sort of guy realy and tells me alot about petrol companys and how one at the moment is trying out plant oil for production he also rides Motorbikes and like me belives there more green than cars they use less petrol and less tyres take up less road and don't get stuck in traffic jams so don't sit there burning petrol but non of the goverment have backed Motorbikes as green transport that can be used now ,If ever one on here how has a car got a scooter and used it for trips up to say 20 miles a day it would cut down on petrol use as most 50 cc scooters will do 100mpg Makes you think don't it ?
    If You don't fancy a scooter a vintage 350cc bike will set you back about £1000 and do 75 mpg use a set of tyres every 4 to five years and god Knows how long chaind last as I've never changed mine in 6 years so there you go go get a bike and have fun

  • Quote from Elfriend

    When we talk about the earth being destroyed arn't we really talking about the environment we live in being destroyed? The earth will always be there, maybe not in the form we know but despite what we can throw at it, it will keep on going ( and when it does fail it won't be because of us). I don't believe we have the power to completly eradicate life on earth.
    So when people say they don't care about sustaining their planet they're really saying they don't care about people or the future of the human race (all obvious i know).
    So that granted, I think the only way to go is to allow the system to crash and be ready to look after ourselves ('cos most people won't have a clue how to live in the "real" world).
    Just allow for evolution then.



    I couldn't agree more. Humanity can't destroy the earth, it's only through the self importance it puts in itself that such a notion arises.

    Not that we shouldn't make an effort to minimise environmental damage, for the sake of those who'll suffer as a result of our blunders and self-righteousness, but essentially - humanity is not the master of the planet, and it does not have the capacity to overcome it (nor will it ever).

    You really should read 'Straw Dogs' by John Gray. He sets out roughly your thinking in a very frank manner, with reference to many mistakes of philosophers and other groups.

  • Quote from Beyond-the-Clouds

    I really don't think there's anything to worry about. Cars haven't had any major impact on the enviroment yet, and by the time that would happen there will be many more electric and corn powered cars. The enviroment has actually improved since the 70s, and with the recent advances of solar power, windmills, and fuel cells, I think it will continue to improve. If you still want to help the enviroment, you could get a motor scooter that gets 100mpg.



    Interesting point about thinghs being worse in the 70s. Certainly then you had rivers disappearing under mountains of foam or catching fire due to the pollution. That said, mostly the polution has just headed south to the developing world.

  • Quote from TheSoupdragon

    Interesting point about thinghs being worse in the 70s. Certainly then you had rivers disappearing under mountains of foam or catching fire due to the pollution. That said, mostly the polution has just headed south to the developing world.

    Precisely. The environment is better in this country because we'd dumped our shit in somebody else's back yard. How many of your nice, shiny consumer goods were manufactured in Europe?

  • Quote from Elfriend

    So that granted, I think the only way to go is to allow the system to crash and be ready to look after ourselves ('cos most people won't have a clue how to live in the "real" world).
    Just allow for evolution then.



    Quite possibly the natural order of things. I think most people considering trying to preserve if not improve the current structures are of the opinion that living in an environment where might prevails may quite possibly leave them at a disadvantage. :)