Women raping men [split thread]

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  • Quote from Atomik

    But men and women have different psychology - especially sexual psychology. The pyschological impact of invasive penetration also can't be underestimated. Having someone force themselves inside you is simply not the same pyschologically as a woman raping a man. If a man was raped anally, the similarity would be a lot greater.



    I know what your saying but I dont think with something like rape you can put people , men and women in to boxes , everybody is different and copes differently.

  • Quote from Atomik

    You're wrong. I have know a very large number of female rape victims, and I have seen first hand just what a traumatic effect it has. If I was raped via vaginal intercourse, it would be unpleasant, demeaning and a whole host of other nasty stuff, but I can tell you now... it would in no way be as bad as the experiences I've seen women go through. The sexual psychology of men and women is extremely different, and this isn't simply a matter of comparing like for like.


    You don't really know how you would react really until it is happened..but putting that aside, every bodies experiences with what happened to them are different...most of my problems with I encountered after what happened to me existed because of the after effects of what happened to me and not the actual event. I had trouble dealing with how out of control I felt, how dirty i felt amongst other things but mostly because i had trouble labeling what had happened to me and other people were more then quick to judge me about it. I wasn't grabbed off the street at knife point or beaten, i didn't scream out...I as in a situation i shouldn't have been in, I was unbelievably drunk and loosing consciousness (although i hadn't knowingly gotten myself that drunk) and because of those things when people accidentally found out the amount of abuse i got for it, the amount of victim blaming i got was intense. I can imagine the same to be the same with a guy who feels he has been raped by a girl. I can't see many people believing him, or taking him seriously, or validating his experiences...i can see a lot of people being very abusive towards him about it... So if the physical trauma at the time would not be as bad for a guy being raped by a girl.. and even if the mental trauma at the time isn't as bad (which really would depend on the circumstances and the guy involved really) .i can imagine the effects of processing and dealing with what happened could potentially be as bad. Also just because you don't think you would feel as traumatised from it as you female friends have talked to you about being dosn't mean another guy wouldn't be, everyone is different.

  • Quote from reggaegotsoul

    It is not the physical aspect that lasts for years , it is the mental scars ,loss of control, Im sure they would be equal really for men and women.


    And that's the heart of it all right there. Rape isn't just about the physical, it's mental. It's a power play.


    Now for some, it's a powerplay of brute force. The big man 'taking' the victim. Probably the most common image summoned up when rape is mentioned and why one has a hard time beleiving that someone who is physically stronger can be 'forced' upon by a weaker entity (a woman).


    Rape by the hands of a very calculating, dominant, manipulative woman doesn't have to be, pin 'em down by the shoulders to still be rape.


    So a man doesn't have a vagina...I could easily find other orafaces and million ways to humilate that could equal vaginal penetration. Maybe he's 240lbs - so you just gotta scale your ruffies accordingly for size. Then it's zip ties ftw and out come the toys. :ppirate:

  • Quote from Atomik

    But men and women have different psychology - especially sexual psychology. The pyschological impact of invasive penetration also can't be underestimated. Having someone force themselves inside you is simply not the same pyschologically as a woman raping a man. If a man was raped anally, the similarity would be a lot greater.


    I agree with that...


    but then there would be other things to deal with...like the fact you were sexual stimulated by something you didn't want...
    thats a huge thing to deal with too...

  • in all honesty i think women raping men is no were near as much as men raping women
    i have had this convo a couple of times ..............and im also of the thinking that how does a woman rape a man
    i mean i know big women and small men who could easily be over powered but surely he wouldent be sexually aroused in that situation

    a neighbouring town to me there have been two cases of male gang rape but it was committed by three men
    the same three men both times
    thankfully they have been caught

    abused husbands yes but raped by a woman extremley rare

  • Quote from reggaegotsoul

    I know what your saying but I dont think with something like rape you can put people , men and women in to boxes , everybody is different and copes differently.

    Absolutley. I'm generalising. There will always be extremes and exceptions.

  • rare yes... but it does happen and there are men out there who have been traumatised by it.


    Quote

    i mean i know big women and small men who could easily be over powered but surely he wouldent be sexually aroused in that situation


    If you body is being sexually stimulated it can react accordingly...its horrible...but it happens and its quite common for females to orgasm through being raped...its horrible...but it happens...

  • I am confused. I've read these posts and am still flummoxed.


    Women gang raping a man? With what? Their vaginas or a dildo or what?


    Are they raping him via his anus or are they jumping on his cock?


    Sorry I don't mean to seem rude, I just find all of this a bit odd and hard to believe.


    I can understand women abusing young men, or children, perhaps not in a sexual way.


    I can't get my head round "what actually happens".


    I think they have re-defined the term rape perhaps.


    As far as I was aware it was forcefully entering either the anus or vagina without consent.

  • Quote

    As far as I was aware it was forcefully entering either the anus or vagina without consent


    rape is defined as penetration of any orifice without the persons consent. It does not need to be forceful. You don't have to physically force someone who is asleep for example.


    As far as i know this thread was talking about women raping men..


    a women could rape a men by penetration..with any kind of object. I have read accounts (all though not many) of guys who had a women stimulate them and have sex with them while they were either drugged/incredibly incredibly drunk or asleep and the people who wrote these accounts on rape survivor boreds i have read were generally quite traumatized by what happened. And because someone had had sex with them without their given consent then i do think they have a right to call their experiences rape.

  • Quote from Kaiya

    You don't really know how you would react really until it is happened..

    Sorry, I disagree. You might not know the exact details, and some of the reactions and feelings that it causes would undoubtedly be unexpected, but I think most women have a pretty good idea that being raped would be horrific.


    Quote

    I can imagine the same to be the same with a guy who feels he has been raped by a girl.

    You can see it, but I can't. And I'm a man, and you're not. Men and women are fundamentally different, and penetrative invasion is fundamentally different to a women raping a man vaginally.


    Quote

    i can imagine the effects of processing and dealing with what happened could potentially be as bad.

    Yes, they could. But you're talking about the rare exception... not the rule.


    Quote

    Also just because you don't think you would feel as traumatised from it as you female friends have talked to you about being dosn't mean another guy wouldn't be, everyone is different.

    Find me one woman who doesn't think being raped would be horrific and traumatising. Sorry Jenna, but men and women are different. Yes, there will be exceptions, but the two forms of rape are not directly comparable.

  • Quote from Kaiya

    and the people who wrote these accounts on rape survivor boreds i have read were generally quite traumatized by what happened.

    In fairness, they wouldn't be on a rape survivor board unless they found the experience traumatic. That's not a representative sample.

  • Quote from gristlebutt

    i think one of the most important issues conserning rape is that of consent. In which case men don't really have the privelage to consent or deny sexual intercourse.


    Quote from Kaiya

    err yes they do...anyone has the privelage to deny consent to sex....
    Your body reacting to a sexual stimulus is not consent.


    I am going to have to agree with kaiya with this one. Mostly through my own personal experiences.


    Matt

  • Quote

    You might not know the exact details, and some of the reactions and feelings that it causes would undoubtedly be unexpected, but I think most women have a pretty good idea that being raped would be horrific.


    You would think. I think most women have a pretty good idea that being violently raped would be horrific but The amount of times I have been told that because what happened to me wasn't physically violent that "its not a big deal", "that its to be expected." "that it is nothing to cry about" and "that I was asking for it really" from women....more so women then men.


    And i can remember after it happening the only friend I told told me that if it happened to her she really wouldn't care :-S

  • Quote from Kaiya

    You would think. I think most women have a pretty good idea that being violently raped would be horrific but The amount of times I have been told that because what happened to me wasn't physically violent that "its not a big deal", "that its to be expected." "that it is nothing to cry about" and "that I was asking for it really" from women....more so women then men.


    And i can remember after it happening the only friend I told told me that if it happened to her she really wouldn't care :-S

    I find that really bizarre. I can't imagine anyone would think that way. You really need a new social circle!


    :bighug:

  • I love the way Atomik disagrees with nearly every one hehe.

    I do not know if this is true but once a person told me on MSN that his wife tied him up and stuck a t.v arial up his bum and caused bleeding.

  • Quote from Kaiya

    The amount of times I have been told that because what happened to me wasn't physically violent that "its not a big deal", "that its to be expected." "that it is nothing to cry about" and "that I was asking for it really" from women....more so women then men.


    And i can remember after it happening the only friend I told told me that if it happened to her she really wouldn't care :-S


    Kaiya, that's awful. A similar thing happened to me. When I told my mum, about 6 years after it happened, she laughed.
    She said "I told you men were only after one thing!"


    That seriously fucked me up, it took me 6 years to tell her, I was so worried that she'd be upset. God, if I had a daughter who was raped at 15 I'd have been mortified, but still. :(
    When my dad found out, a year or so after this, he said "what's the big deal? you hear about this sort of thing happening everyday?"


    Some people are morons! I'm in a better place now and can let go of my parents' lack of concern. But you CAN choose your friends. Friends should be supportive, and if they're not then get rid and get new ones (IMHO).


    Back on topic, I can see how a man would be seriously traumatised by being raped but I don't see a woman's incentive in doing so.:confused:

  • i thought of something for consideration to this thread.

    i know of guys that were abused by women and it has affected there lives from that point on. i also know men that when a woman 'comes on to them' even if they dont want to they freeze up and eventually give in through fear rather than a want to engage in sex.

    what exactly constitutes rape?

    is it completly phisically held down or a act against someones will?

    im sure there are so many men out there that have been raped but are unable to accept it as rape as society deny's the claim.

  • Quote from Kaiya

    rare yes... but it does happen and there are men out there who have been traumatised by it.



    If you body is being sexually stimulated it can react accordingly...its horrible...but it happens and its quite common for females to orgasm through being raped...its horrible...but it happens...



    i dident didpute the fact that it happens hunny
    just i would think rare
    but then i dont have facts and figures its just in my opinion

    im also not disputing the fact that if it did happen the man would be traumatized

    i just find it hard to understand that a man in a fearful rape situation could get aroused
    i mean and i know we are talking about women raping men but as an example straight man attacked by really strong man and molested he sure as hell aint gonna get a hard on

    and as for saying the woman drugs him or hes drunk .......well isent it hard also to get an erection when under the influence

  • Quote from Atomik

    . You really need a new social circle!


    None of these people are my friends anymore...
    and i don't bother telling people anymore because I can't be arsed hearing peoples reactions...the only way i ever mention it is in type...really..I don't have time to spend with people who are damaging anymore.


    Quote

    just find it hard to understand that a man in a fearful rape situation could get aroused


    It does happen unfortunatly. Its fairly common in women too to feel some kind of physical arousal in a rape situation. Its fucked up...but its just your body reacting to being stimulated.


    anyway i was never arguing that its common or something. Just that it happens sometimes obviously it is is rare.


    But all this is irrelevant anyway because the last thing you want to start doing after something like that has happened to you is to start comparing your story and your level of trauma with other people. Everyones story is different. Everyone is effected by something different. Its just not healthy to focus on something like what is worse and what is better when it comes to sexual abuse and rape.


    Quote

    Kaiya, that's awful. A similar thing happened to me. When I told my mum, about 6 years after it happened, she laughed.
    She said "I told you men were only after one thing!"


    :hug:
    People don't realize how damaging their comments are about things they don't quite understand. I'm sorry your mum wasn't supportive.


    The other really common one that I've got all the time is that it was my fault simply because "they wouldn't let something like that happen to them" :-S


    fuck them they know nothing really....

  • kaiya i havent been raped but was in a situation once were i was almost raped but thankfully some guy came by with a dog and the would be rapist ran off
    i was 14 and he had got as far as starting to rip at my clothing

    i know how scary and terrifying that was
    and i have put it in my past as best as i can

    big hugs hunny
    and i really hope i havent offended you with my take on things
    your one brave lady

  • Quote from Kaiya

    None of these people are my friends anymore...
    and i don't bother telling people anymore because I can't be arsed hearing peoples reactions...the only way i ever mention it is in type...really..I don't have time to spend with people who are damaging anymore.

    :thumbup:


    Quote

    It does happen unfortunatly. Its fairly common in women too to feel some kind of physical arousal in a rape situation. Its fucked up...but its just your body reacting to being stimulated.

    That's very true. It's very normal for women to feel a sexual response whilst being raped. In a similar fashion, many women report a sexual response to breastfeeding. All perfectly normal - it's just the body doing what it's supposed to. Unfortuantely, because the subjects are so taboo, many women are left feeling dirty and guilty.


    From the male perspective though - although it's possible to be physically aroused without wanting sex, it is a lot more difficult. It would be especially difficult to actually maneuvre a man's cock into you against his will. Not impossible - just difficult. Another factor that makes this kind of rape (and I'm not sure that's even the word I'd choose) very unlikely and very rare.


    Another factor to consider is that the majority of men would (sadly) be quite happy to fuck anyone who clambered on top of them. "If she's got a hole, I've got a goal!" :rolleyes:


    Quote

    But all this is irrelevant anyway because the last thing you want to start doing after something like that has happened to you is to start comparing your story and your level of trauma with other people. Everyones story is different. Everyone is effected by something different. Its just not healthy to focus on something like what is worse and what is better when it comes to sexual abuse and rape.

    To a point, I agree. What concerns me is that very often when the subject of rape crops up, you hear smart-arsed men pipe up with "guys can get raped too, you know!" I think there's a danger of belittling the psychological and emotional damage that rape does to women by comparing man-on-woman rape to woman-on-man rape. Not only is the latter generally far less traumatic, it's also extremely rare. Whilst it does happen, it's an abberation. The real and significant problem we face in our society is men raping women - which is endemic. Check the poll in the other thread. This happens because there's a disparity of power, control and respect, and I don't think that balance is helped when we look at woman-on-man rape as though it's the same thing as man-on-woman rape. Yes, it has it's own set of potential traumas and responses, but it's simply not the same thing, and nor is it the massive and deeply embedded social problem as man-on-woman rape.


    Quote

    The other really common one that I've got all the time is that it was my fault simply because "they wouldn't let something like that happen to them" :-S


    fuck them they know nothing really....

    Absolutely. It's very easy to say what you'd do if you've never been in a particular situation. It's very hard for people to imagine what such an abnormal situation would be like. Anyone who's been raped deserves sympathy and support - not judgement. Nobody wants to be raped.

  • a few points i'd like to add:

    jo rhymes - :bighug: just read your story in the other thread and your post in this one. I went through some similar stuff and im glad to hear, like me, you're in a better place. I know stuff like it still affects me, but at least the worst is over for us.

    Arnt there some drugs that can cause arousal?

    I know for me i felt pain at the time, physically. But after i had healed i felt worse emotionally. It was for lack of control and it gave me fear that it could happen again and i'd be powerless to stop it. I think if a man was raped by a woman it would show him that it does happen, and could happen in future and that could mess with his head just as much. Then theres anally raping a man, either by a man or a woman with objects. Thats obviously just as posible as entering a woman.

    There have been a few times that i havnt spoken about much much before when my ex bugged me for something so much i eventually gave in. I ran straight to the bathroom after and sat on the floor cryin. When i came back he said "that wasnt so bad, was it?" and i just mumbled that it wasnt as bad as i expected but still horrible. And he asked for it regularly from then on. That isnt really rape as such but i still feal traumatised by it. i could have continued to say no i suppose but he would have continued to pressure me. In that respect it felt just as traumatising as the times when it had happened against my consent because it actually feels like its my fault. I suppose that same could happen to a man.

    And i always think of abuse as just as bad as rape. Obviously rape is slightly worse but just because its not virginally penetrative doesnt mean it doesnt cause the same amount of physical and emotional pain.

  • Quote from Boz

    I know for me i felt pain at the time, physically. But after i had healed i felt worse emotionally. It was for lack of control and it gave me fear that it could happen again and i'd be powerless to stop it. I think if a man was raped by a woman it would show him that it does happen, and could happen in future and that could mess with his head just as much.

    You have to remember though that women are a lot more vulnerable, and a lot more likely to encounter situations where they might get raped. For a man to be vaginally raped.... that's so insanely unlikely to happen even once, the chances of it happening twice are inintesimal.


    Quote

    Then theres anally raping a man, either by a man or a woman with objects. Thats obviously just as posible as entering a woman.

    Yes, and that's much worse psychologically, I agree.

    Quote

    There have been a few times that i havnt spoken about much much before when my ex bugged me for something so much i eventually gave in. I ran straight to the bathroom after and sat on the floor cryin. When i came back he said "that wasnt so bad, was it?" and i just mumbled that it wasnt as bad as i expected but still horrible. And he asked for it regularly from then on. That isnt really rape as such but i still feal traumatised by it. i could have continued to say no i suppose but he would have continued to pressure me. In that respect it felt just as traumatising as the times when it had happened against my consent because it actually feels like its my fault.

    It's not your fault. No man should ever want to have sex with you unless you're willing and enjoying it. Maybe you could have said no - but then maybe we could all do things differently. We're all weak and imperfect, or it would be one happy friggin' planet of perfect human beings!

    Quote

    And i always think of abuse as just as bad as rape. Obviously rape is slightly worse but just because its not virginally penetrative doesnt mean it doesnt cause the same amount of physical and emotional pain.

    As I've said before.... it's incredibly unlikely. It should tell you something that it's mostly women on this thread arguing that it's just as bad. Any man with half a brain knows that being "raped" by a woman vaginally is simply not in the same league as a man raping a woman, or even a man raping a man. The violation of penetration... of being forcibly entered by someone... of having someone spill their fluids inside you... is fundamentally more traumatising. Added to this, male sexuality and psychology is fundamentally different to female sexuality and psychology. This makes the two types of experience profoundly different. Yes, it can be bad, but it is not a like-for-like comparison, and it is not remotely in the same league.

  • Yes, it should tell you something that women are arguing that it's just as bad. Those who have been there have empathy for others who've been there, regardless of gender.


    And I'll be brutally honest here - more honest than will make any human comfortable (I'm not sure I'm being read anyways. Ever had a one of those invisible weeks? I'm having one. However my need to vent/confess is now overriding my need to be accepted by internet folk. Infact, this'll probably blow any chance I had of making a friend here at all...)


    I for one know that I could be a rapist of a man and I know I could do it and I know that I could do it in a manner that would scar him beyond sanity. And every time I hear people deny that it can't happen or that it's not the same or that it's so rare we should blow it off, I get filled with rage and the urge to commit*.


    Rape truely sees no gender. So when one trivializes one version of rape, it trivializes the rest. It took a long long time for women to be able to come out a deal with subjects like this as a gender. Now men who have been through the experience have to fight for the same acceptance that's been struggled for on our side for so long. How many women have had their expeiences blown off (like the person who said their mother just made some comment about going through the same like nothing happened) Now have that experience as a male and the world is telling you that you better shut up about it because it couldn't possible compare or any of the other crap that would make a man want to bottle up and hide and self destruct (just like any rape vicitim) except that he's more likely to get ridiculed and his own emotions and experience trivialized as the world doesn't seem to be ready to help or accept the male rape victim.


    (*I'm aware this is a sickness that should get looked after. It's not an all the time occurance or frame of mind but when the topic comes up, so do these feelings. )

  • Quote from SithInKnots

    Yes, it should tell you something that women are arguing that it's just as bad. Those who have been there have empathy for others who've been there, regardless of gender.

    I've no problem with that. But it also tells me that a lot of women don't understand that male sexuality and psychology is very different from their own.


    Quote

    I for one know that I could be a rapist of a man and I know I could do it and I know that I could do it in a manner that would scar him beyond sanity. And every time I hear people deny that it can't happen or that it's not the same or that it's so rare we should blow it off, I get filled with rage and the urge to commit.

    But however you care to spin it, the basic act is not the same. You can dress it up with all kinds of nastiness so that it does just as much psychological and emotional damage, but the basic act of forced vaginal intercourse is not even remotely on the same level. And I don't think anyone suggested we should "blow it off" or that it "can't happen"...

  • I can't see how anyone can judge what is "worse than" or "not as bad as" - Individuals react differently to different things. Sexual assault on all levels, penetrative or otherwise can have a traumatic effect on the victim.

    People react differently to different experiences. For instance, I've been burgled 4 times and I wasn't that emotionally affected by it, yeah it was annoying, but it didn't devastate me - however some people feel strongly violated by such an experience.

    Statistics can't always be relied on, although they are probably as close to accurate as they're ever gonna be; however, there is still a macho/socially unacceptable thing that prevents men from reporting any kind of assault.

    I remember and episode of "men behaving badly" where Dorothy smashed Gary in the face with a cupboard door, which was followed by a load of canned laughter ... all done in a slapstick style, but it did leave me wondering how the audience would react to it being the other way around.

  • Quote from Paul

    I can't see how anyone can judge what is "worse than" or "not as bad as" - Individuals react differently to different things.

    Yeah, and that's why we talk in general terms, accepting that there will always be exceptions. But obviously it's possible to say if something is "worse than" something else generally speaking... if someone forcibly snogged you, could you honestly say it would be impossible to say that that would be worse than being anally assaulted with a dildo? But of course, being forcibly snogged could still scar someone emotionally. Generalisation and degree.

  • Quote from sensamelia


    and i really hope i havent offended you with my take on things


    Noone has offended me :)


    Quote

    Yes, it has it's own set of potential traumas and responses, but it's simply not the same thing, and nor is it the massive and deeply embedded social problem as man-on-woman rape.



    The thing about man-on-woman rape that isn' true for male rape is that it extends the women are property thing that is common in society, the whole women are designed to give men pleasure thing. Especially because society has all these misconceptions about girls who have many partners, who were drunk, who were wearing a short skirt etc deserving to be raped...or are some how asking to be raped.


    Quote

    That isnt really rape as such but i still feal traumatised by it. i could have continued to say no i suppose but he would have continued to pressure me. In that respect it felt just as traumatising as the times when it had happened against my consent because it actually feels like its my fault. I suppose that same could happen to a man.


    :hug:


    I had a similar experience after what had happened where i kept saying no about something...over and over again...but he wouldn't listen and instead of punching him in the face and leaving i just gave up saying no. I never said it was okay..i just accepted it was going to happen. The thing is when you have been abused/assaulted in the past you can associate it with other sexual events in your life. Add that to your low sexual self esteem probably from what happened to you its no wonder you gave up and did what he wanted. Like with the situation i was in. I just thought if i carried on saying no all that would happen was he would do it anyway and if i stopped rejecting him at least even though i would feel horrible at least he wouldn't rape me. Its not your fault he pressured you like he did and its completely understandable you gave in.