Racism or not?

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  • Quote from Paul

    This is an interesting debate and it would be a shame to have to close it.



    no it isn't, and it wouldn't

    this is an exchange between misinformed white people, who all have access to A level sociology books, piss poor.

  • Quote from Paul

    I've not done an A level in anything, and I come from a far more diverse area than the NW coast of Scotland.

    Snap.

    I would like to state that I do believe the word is in the process of having its meanings revised by the youth culture, unfortunately it'll take a generation to resolve and until that time everyone should take care where and when it is used, especially on the tele.

  • Quote from denhaag

    no it isn't, and it wouldn't


    Not finding the debate interesting is a matter of your personal opinion - but I’m quite shocked that you feel it is a debate that should be effectively off limits.


    Especially considering that we live in a society with an ever increasing mix of races, I’d have thought that asking such questions and taking the time to discuss them was more important than ever! Surely the sign of a society that is comfortable with itself is one where debate is encouraged, and to seek to close down any debate on racism is not only counter-productive, but also unnecessary.


    Both sides agreed that blacks were of equal worth to whites, and should not face abuse or discrimination purely on the basis of their colour. To simply proclaim any dissent as "misinformed white people" is not only patronising, but effectively saying you consider your opinion to be so self-evidently right that you don’t even feel the need to defend it – a view which flies in the face of the genuine disagreement that has been expressed.


    I daren’t make any comments about the merits of a sociology A level having been given a stern ticking off in real life over some comments I made about “film studies” – but needless to say I certainly don’t own any textbooks on it! If I did though – surely the professional sociologists (no, that’s not a paradox) are in a good position to give some informed opinion?


    I also agree with Dapablo that we should certainly take care how it's used!

  • I wonder when "Chav" will be similarly viewed?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    I wonder when "Chav" will be similarly viewed?

    Never, and whats that got to do with the price of eggs anyway. :)

  • Quote from Dapablo

    Never, and whats that got to do with the price of eggs anyway. :)


    Well, its not directly "race" related, but it is a term of abuse directed at a social group generally based on an assumption of behaviour based on appearance.


    Its very much accepted to say "chav" as a generalised term of abuse because of membership of a social group. A similar thing could be said of "pikey". Why does "n*gger" get the attention but terms generally used as "abuse" pass by without mention?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    Why does "n*gger" get the attention but terms generally used as "abuse" pass by without mention?

    I would imagine the word Apartheid might answer your question.

  • Quote from Dapablo

    I would imagine the word Apartheid might answer your question.


    I'm not suggesting that "chavs" have recieved anything like the treatment "blacks" have gained; but if a word is banned because its a term of abuse on the grounds of who you are, rather than what you do, isnt "chav" equally as liable?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from denhaag

    no it isn't, and it wouldn't

    this is an exchange between misinformed white people, who all have access to A level sociology books, piss poor.


    Really is doing a degree mean I'm misinformed... Does any of my life experiences count for anything... Do you even know from what experience I've been basing my arguments around... NOPE


    That is a HUGE assumption...:rolleyes:

  • How can we all be misinformed if we're tryin to debate this issue.rather than statin that our personal view is the 'right' one-I would like to be informed but my reason 4 startin this discussion was because there doesnt seem to be a consensus on this issue and I'm still unclear on why the 'n-word' seems to be in a class of its own wen other terms of abuse are 'acceptable'.Its not enough to say its all about history-blacks are not the only group to have suffered in the past-or now and while intentional abuse is obviously wrong i'm askin why this particular word is apparently unacceptable to use in a non abusive way,in conversation or even bein typed on here?Isnt language constantly evolvin and changin in meanin?WE'd hardly say anything if we didnt move on from negative connetations that are possibly no longer relevant because of changes in society

  • Quote from Coyote

    I'm not suggesting that "chavs" have recieved anything like the treatment "blacks" have gained; but if a word is banned because its a term of abuse on the grounds of who you are, rather than what you do, isnt "chav" equally as liable?

    Symantics I'm afraid, one cannot ignore the emotional baggage that some words carry, one can't seperate them from their past.

  • Quote from Dapablo

    Symantics I'm afraid, one cannot ignore the emotional baggage that some words carry, one can't seperate them from their past.


    I though "the N word" :rolleyes: was banned because it was a term of abuse; regardless of whether the recipient of such a word is upset by it....

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Do ya know what I dont think she was being racist, they where pissing around dancing and stuff and she just said something like 'yeah nigger' ot something like that. I was chatting to my brother about it and he has more black mates than me and he said he goes up to his mates and says 'sup nigga' the twat tries to be American!!
    With BB the other person (that annoying, bitch) she didnt care, it didnt bother her, so why the fuck should it bother other people as long as the person who was in line for the potential comment doesnt give a shit and LAUGHED about it why should we!!
    I know alot of gay people for example and quite happily call my best mate a poooooof, queer, batty boy he gets it all from me and thats in a jokey way, am i being homophobic or is it just my british sense of humour?

  • From my observation of the event my conclusion was that the girl was distressed by the use of the word, sure her words denied such but all her behaviour and continual discussion shows she was upset and unsure about how to react.

  • The annoying girl who the comment was aimed at wasnt upset at all.
    Its wasnt until other people made a thing out of it that she all of a sudden got upset, by the way i detest her sooooo much - she's a attention seeking bitch

  • Yup it sure was quite a few times but she didnt get exicted did she!!
    I think it has alot to do with when BB had them 'celebs' on there, they where accused to being racist.
    Sticks and stones people sticks and fucking stones

  • Quote

    Medusa would you wear a swastika


    Umm???No because as far as i know theres no other interpretation 4 swasticas,its not been 'reclaimed'-and its a symbol not a word.I wouldnt wear a christian cross either.Those symbols suggest certain beleifs that i dont have but usin a word doesnt suggest belief.I would use the word Nazi tho

  • Quote from medusa

    Umm???No because as far as i know theres no other interpretation 4 swasticas,its not been 'reclaimed'-and its a symbol not a word.I wouldnt wear a christian cross either.Those symbols suggest certain beleifs that i dont have but usin a word doesnt suggest belief.I would use the word Nazi tho



    lol i take it you didn't see the 'reclaim the swastika' thread?

    http://www.ukhippy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13789

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • No didnt see it.But I've been thinkin.....(sound of stampedin hippies runnin away from another attempt by medusa to say in an essay wot normal people can sum up in a sentence)

    Right.The words 'chav' and 'nazi' are insults coz they hav derogetory assosiations-'chav'=thick,uncultured etc,'nazi'=power-crazed,egomaniac type things(in 2days language).But what does 'nigga' mean??
    Doesnt it mean 'black person' or 'descended from Niger'.In which case why is that a bad thing?Yes it was used abusively in the past to slaves.but so were other words like 'boy',which sounds more insultin to me.I cant think of any negative assosiations in terms of wot the word means,whats 'insultin' about bein black?
    Am i goin mad here and thinkin 2 much or does anyone understand wot i'm tryin to say?

  • Quote from medusa


    Am i goin mad here and thinkin 2 much or does anyone understand wot i'm tryin to say?



    i understand what you're saying... but insulting someone with a word that stands for a political party or a lifestyle choice.... no matter what the connotations....... is not the same as insulting someone by their skin colour. Even if you don't dislike them because of their skin colour.

    But when you say chav-uncultured and nazi- power-crazed
    then you say nigger-black person
    that's not true... because.. whatever roots the word has, our use of it gives it its meaning. and the use of nigger was derogatory, therefore, whatever "negro" or the words it stemmed from mean, it is still a derogatory term - because we made it so.

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • Quote from wiggy

    Yup it sure was quite a few times but she didnt get exicted did she!!
    I think it has alot to do with when BB had them 'celebs' on there, they where accused to being racist.
    Sticks and stones people sticks and fucking stones



    The black girl used it after the event and in response to its initial usage so not the same at all. If one feels abused one isn't necessarily going to get excited.

    Accused of, oh so it didn't happen now, a bit revisionist I may suggest.

    One of the worst sayings ever because each and every one of us knows its crap, words can be more hurtful than anything.