Racism or not?

Welcome to UKHIppy2764@2x.png

UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • Big brothers kicked someone out for sayin 'the N word' to a black housemate.Dont watch it but read the transcript in the paper and it doesnt seem like this was a racist attack.So has 'nigga' been reclaimed by the black community the way 'lezzer/queer'etc have by the gay community and is it 'fair' that its only acceptable to use if you're black?
    Do words themselves have power or is it the context thats important?For instance i've heard very racist views expressed without 'racist' words,and 'racist/sexist/homophobic words used with no negative intent.
    What do people think?

  • do ya know wat, i mean nothing to do with the racism and stuff but its funny you should mention gay and black because when i was at school and people used to get bullied and we would complain about it, they would never take it seriously. If someone was racism or homophobic my god they were on it like a shot but if ur not gay or black for sum reason you tend to get overlooked lol

    but to be honest i have never used the N word and dont really see the need :S its like i know black people have suddenly prefered to be called black than coloured which yer i can understand in a way but i have noticed some of them use the N word themselves.

    with homophobics, i dno rly its unusual because you sort of have a choice to tell someone if youre gay or lesbian or bi, whereas if youre black or white you can actually SEE it straight up cant ya but homophobic....er ism lol is still as bad

    I thought I saw your name on a loaf of bread the other day...then saw it said Thick Cut :thumbup:

  • from what i understand you can't say ever say nigger under any circumstances if you're white (probably rightly so), and even if you're actually black there's divided opinion as to whether it's okay for them to use the word to each other.


    i love ice-t's original gangster album and he uses the word nigger about 57 million times in that, but i'm a white middle class bloke from bedford, if i went round saying nigger this and nigger that it would sound very stupid and rather suspect, whoever i said it to.


    i guess it depends what culture and race and class you belong to as to how you view the word. maybe.

    The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln

  • Quote from BlessedBe

    do ya know wat, i mean nothing to do with the racism and stuff but its funny you should mention gay and black because when i was at school and people used to get bullied and we would complain about it, they would never take it seriously. If someone was racism or homophobic my god they were on it like a shot but if ur not gay or black for sum reason you tend to get overlooked lol

    but to be honest i have never used the N word and dont really see the need :S its like i know black people have suddenly prefered to be called black than coloured which yer i can understand in a way but i have noticed some of them use the N word themselves.

    with homophobics, i dno rly its unusual because you sort of have a choice to tell someone if youre gay or lesbian or bi, whereas if youre black or white you can actually SEE it straight up cant ya but homophobic....er ism lol is still as bad



    Bit like being ginger then:)

  • basically yer! lol reminds me of catherine tate....gingers for justice!

    I thought I saw your name on a loaf of bread the other day...then saw it said Thick Cut :thumbup:

  • Quote from the gardener

    Bit like being ginger then:)


    You got there first with the ginger bit damnit :harhar: Im also half-tight and not in the most logical mindset, that said...


    I dont see why "nigger" should be worse than any other word designed to cause offence. Isnt the whole point of these words to try and cause offence.. "nigger" is just very effective.


    The fact that it is considered a hundred times worse than anything else by virture of being racial slur simply shows how hysterical, and uncomfortable we are with a past we played no part in and have no reason to be sorry for.


    It's like saying punching a man because he's black, or a gay for his sexuality is worse than attacking a ginger haired person.


    That said, we live in a climate where use of the word is a brave step. Any "white trash" using the word will be demonised, and so personally I value my life enough not to use it - which I resent somewhat!

  • I've been called 'white trash'-didnt realize it was an insult!
    What about other words then,is it ok to use words that are historically discriminatory? coz that seems to be why 'nigga' is considered offensive

  • Its the whole word thing, I'm of the opinion that its not the colour of your skin but the colour of your mind.....words are how we express ourselves but a small part, we speak volumes with our actions, the words, the pen is mightier than the sword, shit man thats bollox, we interllectualise everything, but our actions are what define us, not our thoughts or our words, the words in our mind form and are grasped or shunned by us but our actions have a whole different consequence. Confusion arises when I seperates myself from you...there is no difference when I hurt myself I hurt you and when you hurt me you hurt yourself. But to be offended by someone elses ignorance of history in the now is pathetic, and to take revenge in the now for the conotations that a word that is freely used in the now may have had....shit....I am Welsh, and all that means to me and all that means to you, means nothing I am me, I can define myself in a myriad of ways, my race, nationality, regionality has suffered its persecutions too, been mistreated, abused, enslaved in its time, its the history of humanity, but we are all the same flesh and blood, the same building blocks with their quirky little differences.....but to be offended by a word when in the history of time we could probably all but grunt. We are one and as my man Ali said "Me....We", and don't just say it live it!

  • I dont see how it is worse. I might think differently if anyone affected by slavery survived - but no-one alive was a slave and I dont think anyone born to a slave could still be around.


    Anyone who wants to suffer pointlessly at the possible fate of their great great great grandparents is welcome to, but I don't see why this choice deserves special sensitivity. Even worse are the white people who - overcome with guilt that in their family tree was a man who once owned a slave prance over to Africa and wear symbolic metal chains whilst apologising to everyone present. It's patronising, and meaningless.


    Will be be formally asking Italy to apologise for the Roman invasion?


    If one wants to cause offence and people take offence so easily at "nigger" - then it makes sense to use it for your purpose.


    I've also not quite grasped the difference between "nigger" and "nigga", Does your ability to pronounce the word properly now mean the difference between acceptable and not ? :o


    Rant over 8-)

  • Quote from Cybw


    Does your ability to pronounce the word properly now mean the difference between acceptable and not ? :o


    Nah it just lets people know if you live in the north or the south of the U.K. :p

    "Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise that we can not eat money" - 19th Century Cree Indian.

  • Quote from Cybw

    I dont see how it is worse. I might think differently if anyone affected by slavery survived - but no-one alive was a slave and I dont think anyone born to a slave could still be around.


    dude, there's still slavery all over the planet in all but name. i think that people banging on about slavery hundreds of years ago might want to channel their efforts into something more useful, like helping people currently 'enslaved'.

    The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln

  • Quote from ZZZZZ

    dude, there's still slavery all over the planet in all but name. i think that people banging on about slavery hundreds of years ago might want to channel their efforts into something more useful, like helping people currently 'enslaved'.


    You're right of course : To clarify I meant slavery strictly in the context of black people selling their prisoners to the white man to exploit.


    You're even more right in suggesting that fighting modern day slavery is a far better use of time!

  • I think the girl was dumb and insensitive to use that word on public TV especially after the Jade Goody incident, or maybe she was that desperate for attention that she did it on purpose, I don't know...

    On the one hand, saying something which can so easily cause offence is nasty, uncalled for, she shouldn't have done it.

    On the other hand... I did not like seeing in the papers the way they turned the word into a load of little stars.
    If people are incapable of even reporting about the usage of the word without censoring it - it seems like a complete failure to come to terms with the history of it.
    Ch. 4 did the right thing in taking the girl out, because of the uproar before, but at the same time - well if it wasn't on TV, was it a huge huge problem?
    I don't wanna belittle it, I know words can hurt people... but aagh, I dunno, surely it's better to take things lightly, when they're meant lightly?
    It wasn't a racist attack...

    When I was at school, I hung out with a group of girls, an Indian girl, Pakistani girl and a Chinese girl - we'd call each other 'paki' and 'chink' and even 'white trash' - just because it was amusing to us - perhaps it shouldn't have been? - how meaningless words are, if you don't put any meaning into them.
    If we'd been out in certain parts of Southampton and I'd called my friend a Paki - I'd have been lynched immediately.

    I think what i'm taking a long time to say is that there's no real harm in using the words - they can be used in a racist way, but it's the racism underneath that's the issue, not the word itself, surely.

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • i can't think of a time i've wanted to use the N word.
    However, i think its perfectly acceptable for one social group to make fun of another.
    just as long as these exchanges are mutual.
    it is very important that people KNOW each other before we call each other names.
    ~ calling a friend ginger, or a slapper, or reclaiming & using "racial slurs" empower us as friends.

    Because, these same words are used in anger by the far right, homophobes, my dad, or by those feeling uncomfortable with another's disability, all these insults are just words, their "value" and power has been diluted & de-mystified.
    Perhaps, these words can be reduced to the level they deserve, like childish noises, like farting.
    Much rather this than the high status we afford these crudities

    if our media are frightened of an 18~19 yr old woman trying very hard to be street (& certainly channel 4 are frightened), then we are living in a dangerously racist society.

    the uk is dangerously racist because discriminatory values are so deeply imbedded within our news/programme networks, where "any degree of racism" is seen to be "swiftly dealt with.."
    this woman from the BB house is canon fodder, shes just another airhead, she might be a racist she might not,
    But its our media NOT our culture thats racist.

  • When people get offended by words not intended to offend...it always makes me think of "JEHOVA!!!!!"


    :whistle:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from denhaag

    what do you mean?


    Life of Brian :D

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    Life of Brian :D


    :D indeed.
    am a little slow on the uptake.
    my mrs made me watch citizen kane last week caused i'd never seen it. after 39 yrs i understand what rosebud was

  • At the end of the day if channel 4 did not want this to happen maybe they shouldn't have put all these people in a house on TV. Of course someone in there is going to have undesireable veiws and most of them seem fairly stupid ignorant people anyway...I can't see what all the uproar is about.


    As for the word Nigger. I don't use it . If it is that offensive maybe black people should stop calling it one another. Surely that is just sending out mixed messages to people about the words acceptability. If it is that offensive as it is calimed surely black people are degradeing themselves by calling eachother it.


    Personally I don't think it is anymore offensive then calling anyone any offensive name. If someone on big brother called someone else a fag for example I doubt it would have caused this much drama. At the end of the day it is just a word and in this case wasn't used as part of a racial attack, if it was accompanied by more racial hatred or was used on a regualr basis then maybe I would think differently. This incident on big brother dosn't need this much fuss about it. Someone needs to show the stupid girl just how ignorant she is. Or even better maybe they should stop putting these people on the TV in the first place.

  • Quote from Kaiya


    As for the word Nigger. I don't use it . If it is that offensive maybe black people should stop calling it one another. Surely that is just sending out mixed messages to people about the words acceptability. If it is that offensive as it is calimed surely black people are degradeing themselves by calling eachother it.



    I dunno much about it, but I always assumed (shoot me!) that the people who use the word, say in rap songs or as a name for friends, weren't the same ones that complained about it?

    we reenact Noah's ancient drama, but in reverse, like a film running backwards, the animals exiting

  • Quote from elfqueenofrohan

    I dunno much about it, but I always assumed (shoot me!) that the people who use the word, say in rap songs or as a name for friends, weren't the same ones that complained about it?


    I don't know. At school all the black boys would call themselves niggers. Yet if a white boy said it he'd get a fist in the face. If its that offensive to them maybe its time to stop calling each other it...

  • It's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves.
    eg. black guys calling each other 'nigger' is ok beacuse it's a mark of friendship/camaraderie- if the white kid calls them a nigger, its probably an insult -> fist in face

  • Quote from urban_ninja

    It's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves.
    eg. black guys calling each other 'nigger' is ok beacuse it's a mark of friendship/camaraderie- if the white kid calls them a nigger, its probably an insult -> fist in face


    Yeah, for sure. Same goes for the "reclaimation" of other words such as homophobic insults. Thing is, it seems C4 are too stupid to understand the concept that offence is caused by intent not by the actual words used...

  • I posted something similar in another thread - but what is the problem with showing casual racism on television so long as its not glorified? Didnt do Miss Goody much good....

  • Quote from urban_ninja

    It's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves.
    eg. black guys calling each other 'nigger' is ok beacuse it's a mark of friendship/camaraderie- if the white kid calls them a nigger, its probably an insult -> fist in face


    True. But then why assume that a white person saying it mean't it in a racist way..?

  • Quote from Kaiya

    True. But then why assume that a white person saying it mean't it in a racist way..?


    'cause the sort of people who resort to fists tend not to be the worlds greatest thinkers?