vaccinations for babies

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  • my wife ready to drop any day now, we will be bringing up the baby as natural as possible and i was wondering peoples views on jabs for/ against? :D

  • There's a very good reason for the jabs! For up to 6 months the baby relies on the mothers antibodies, after that point you basically have an immune system with no defences. If we lived in a world in which we hadn't caused the common flu bug to evolve into such a nasty piece of work with our over-prescribing of antibiotics you would probably be fine but we don't live in that world and it's not worth risking a babies life for the sake of some principals. My advice, and the advice of anyone with a tiny amount of medical knowledge, is to get the jabs...

  • here ya go hun.
    http://www.jabs.org.uk/

    Finn has had all of her jabs exept mmr due to me not being able to make up my mind whether its a good idea or not. I have talked it over with hv and have the option of giving it to her when she hits 3 and i think that providing she is having a good diet (cause ya can't force toddlers no matter how hard you try lol) and is eating loads of fruit and veg and has a good immune system then i will allow her to have it. on another note, it's a lottery that the government would rather you didn't know about. They have claim forms for vaccine damaged children so they are acknowledging on some level that your child could be the unlucky one in the statistic.
    Heres the link to the claim page for vaccine damage. I hope i've been some help and not confused you further lol.
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Di…itsAndSupport/DG_10026664

  • As I have written this so many times before I am going to repeat what I have said before...

    When I was pregnant with Lewis who is nearly 9 years old now and still continues to thrive not having had vaccinations, I took the informed choice that he wouldn't have his vaccinations, and now we are with Torr who is 18 months, I have spent many months researching the pros and cons, when I was both pregnant with Lewis and again with Torr, and joined the informed parent which gives a quarterly newsletter on the most up-to-date news/research facts.

    http://www.informedparent.co.uk/

    So our decision wasn't taken lightly.

    I am a firm believer that the cons out weigh the pros then!! Lewis has only ever had one major illness chickenpox, and he sailed through that, and now he is immune for life not just for as long as the vaccine lasts.

    I am all for informed choice and the choice is definitely a personal one. I would never knock anyone for choosing what they think is best for their child.... but I will say that I sadly think that propaganda has a lot to do with the choices we make. I remember around the time I took the choice not to vaccinate Lewis, that the media was trying to push the point, that if you didn't vaccinate then you were a bad parent... I certainly don't consider myself to be and am deeply offended by this. Therefore, I can see how people don't feel strong enough not to make an informed choice, especially when you a vulnerable new parent, so just go along with the majority. I am however afraid of the amount of poisons that are put in such a small body, at such an early age - rising to 25 soon, and maybe more when they bring out the chicken pox vaccine that they have been saying they will do!!


    A child will gain a natural immunity from a good diet, being exposed to some illnesses, and having a being supported emotionally and physically to aid their well-being.

    The thing is, in my opinion, vaccinations are way less than 100% effective anyway; we are not immune for life so as adults we are open to all illnesses which effect adults much more seriously than in childhood. Eg: I had chicken pox a few years ago and it was awful (in my throat which closed up but not in my eyes thankfully, as some adults have experienced) compared to Lewis who had it hardly at all; and from a vegan point of view, some vaccines are cultured on the bellies of calves, and tested on animals... also are the vaccines monitored for BSE?? I read that they were still using possible BSE infected vaccines even after the problems of BSE had come to light, and the other measures to deal with BSE had been put into place.

    What we have to remember is that illnesses, like meningitis, are often the result of an impaired immune system, and IMO vaccines can often break a child's immune system down hence reactions etc.. I believe if you are going to vaccinate give homeopathy along side to help the child against reactions.

    I would love the powers that be, to do some research on unvaccinated children to see how many have had meningitis or other serious illnesses, and to see how they get through them!!

    I also believe in prevention rather than cure, and natural immunity for life. If your child is healthy emotionally, as well as physically, then they will get through any illness, especially as we have much improved living conditions and live in the Western World. Yes, I may feel different if I lived in the third world but as I have said before I probably wouldn't be privileged enough to hold the opinions I do, as my life would be more about survival. Breast feeding can also go a long way to improving immunities...and often a mother passes over her natural immunities to a child in the womb from what I read the other day!!

    Anyway, at the end of the day we must do what we must do as parents, and it is a personal choice!! And please don't feel bullied or pressurised into doing anything you don't want too by any health professionals, family, friends or even us on here...the choice you make must be one you make for the benefit of your children.


    Fortunately I have met someone in Stonesy who is happy to also take this decision against vaccinations, as did Lewis's real dad all those years a go :0)


    Both my children continue to thrive as happy healthy vegan children :) with very few illnesses so far :) and brought up as "naturally" as possible

    This is Lewis aged 8



    and this is Torr aged 17 months :)





  • I very much enjoyed your post Stormy, and you are correct, parents are made to feel like they are neglecting their children if they decide not to vaccinate. I found that much out when i stood fast against giving Finn the mmr. lovely to hear an informed point of view that is nearer mine, rather than to be judged by parents who show very little interest in researching the real pros and cons of vaccinations. :thumbup:

  • we also didnt vacinate. this was a choice that i made firstly with the boys then with beauty when the time came. i have a 16yr 14yr and 12yr old now who is happy and healthy and has no problems. beauty wont have any either. if they decide f0or themselves in the future its never too late!
    the pressure to vacinate is so full on that sometimes i think people just cave in and have it done. we have been constantly told by health visitrs and drs that they should be vacinate. our GP even tried to encourage our 14yr old to have them done saying he was able to make his own desisions now! i think not!
    all the best with whatever you decide. just do what is right for your situation
    hales x

  • Quote from Hedgewitch

    I very much enjoyed your post Stormy, and you are correct, parents are made to feel like they are neglecting their children if they decide not to vaccinate. I found that much out when i stood fast against giving Finn the mmr. lovely to hear an informed point of view that is nearer mine, rather than to be judged by parents who show very little interest in researching the real pros and cons of vaccinations. :thumbup:



    Thanks Hedgewitch xxx your comments are very much appreciated :)

  • Quote from magicmonkey

    There's a very good reason for the jabs! For up to 6 months the baby relies on the mothers antibodies, after that point you basically have an immune system with no defences. If we lived in a world in which we hadn't caused the common flu bug to evolve into such a nasty piece of work with our over-prescribing of antibiotics you would probably be fine but we don't live in that world and it's not worth risking a babies life for the sake of some principals. My advice, and the advice of anyone with a tiny amount of medical knowledge, is to get the jabs...


    Actually, influenza is caused by a virus and therefore is neither treated nor affected by antibiotics. The influenza vaccine is actually offered to the elderly and other high-risk groups, and changes each year as a result of the virus's high natural mutation rate, which produces many different strains of influenza.


    However, bacteria mutation is a huge problem due to overprescription of antibiotics and also a failure on the part of many patients to complete the entire course of antibiotics, simply stopping the course when they 'feel better'.

  • My own opinion on this is that (if I had children) I would get them vaccinated, but I would research the health risks and speak to an informed professional first (my mother is a consultant histopathologist, for starters). The argument that the vaccines are not without risks are certainly true, but you only need to look back to the huge child mortality rates and death rates prior to mass vaccination to see how serious the negative consequences of non-vaccination can be. Even just visiting a third world country where there are no effective vaccination programmes can be a real eye-opener.


    There is currently a huge mumps and measles problem at my University as a result of the MMR link to autism scare (which has been completely disproved as the work of a single rogue doctor who fiddled his results now, by the way), which is causing a lot of hassle for everyone involved, especially as the exams are underway right now.


    I am not saying that everyone must get their children vaccinated or they are a 'bad parent'. In my own opinion the risks of non-vaccination (for the most deadly diseases at least) far outweigh the risks and possible side-effects of vaccination. However, every parent should be aware of both sides of the argument and if they choose to not vaccinate their child that should be their choice.

  • had both of my boys vaccinated... i have seen the horrendous suffering caused to children by illnesses they weren't vaccinated against...the sound of children suffering with whooping cough is something i NEVER want to hear again....if you can guarentee that your child will have a 100% healthy diet,will not be mixing with children who have the viruses and you have researched your decision properly..then make the choice not to... BUT do not be swayed by the 'natural means not taking advantage of modern science brigade' who IMHO are just as Nazi-like as health visitors who tell you, you're a bad parent if you don't have them vaccinated...

    do you live in a rural community or an urban area ? i'm convinced it is easier to live a healthier,more natural lifestyle whilst living in a rural community...because we are not as exposed to pollution or the germs of living so closely together as city folk are...but maybe thats a topic for another thread..

  • My son was born in Luton and lived there until he was 5, without vaccinations and I couldn't think of a more dirty polluted and highly populated town to be honest. And then we lived in Hastings, Sussex until he was 6 and half which again is fairly densly populated with residents and loads of Tourists....but now we are rural in Cumbria, where yes we are more likely to get foot and mouth, so yes we are less at risk here!!

    And another point made about children's lives before vaccinations in this country and then referred to the third world.... sanitation and cleanliness has improved greatly since those days in fact to the degree that we are too clean in our homes now... the third world is still at risk from bad sanitation and bad living conditions so yes their disease rates are much higher than ours in the western world.

    And there are also links to vaccinations and behavioral problems in children... from what I have read.... OK I am no scientist, and do not wish to offend anyone but in recent years behavioural problems seem to have escalated...could this be due to an overload on the brain of all the vaccinations that are given in such tiny children... who knows??

    Also it was mentioned that mumps and measles are rife again.... I wonder how many of those people who have got it or had it in that particular college, were vaccinated??? and how many now are not covered because the vaccination shelf life has run out and that is why it is rife again??

    I believe in natural immunity and while I don't want my children to suffer from any illness I believe it is better to get naturally immune than only be immune for as long as the vaccination lasts.... don't forget as adults we are not covered by an immunization programme, and if we get thes illnesses we are more likely to be badly effected. Actually my own mother was against most of the vaccinations so I haven't really had many either... but I did have the illness which has made me immune for life. Furthermore, as pregnant mothers we do have to be careful about contracting rubella, which can deformity in our unborn children... fortunatley, when I was pregnant and tested for immunity I was OK as I had had it as a child and my immunity is now for life.

    Anyway, these are just facts I am giving on the side of not vaccinating... but I will stress again it is a personal choice and is ultimately up to the parent :)

  • I posted my Literature Review surrounding the MMR vaccine on this thread;


    http://www.ukhippy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2529&page=2


    A little while ago.


    I am pregnant and my kids WILL be getting vaccinated.


    I work in a virology laboratory, carring out serology tests to diagnose bacterial and viral illnesses. The complications that can arise from wild type infection are horrendous, and it is heartbreaking to recieve requests from babies and children who are seriously ill (and all too often dying) in intensive care from illnesses that are so easily preventable.


    The other factor I'm finding hard to deal with at the moment (due to being pregnant myself), is the number of miscarriages which are a direct result of the mother coming into contact with an infected child (usually when taking other children to school/playgroup etc). So many illnesses can cause so many problems in pregnancy, the heartbreaking thing is that many viral illnesses can cause "missed abortions", where there is no sign that the foetus has died, and the mother doesn't find out for several weeks that the baby has died inside her.


    Mumps and Measles are on the increase, due to a decrease in herd immunity. Luckily we are not seeing the deaths that used to occur with measles, but we must remember that if we don't protect through vaccination, those death rates will become a reality once more. http://www.hpa.org.uk/infectio…easles/data_death_age.htm



    Another reason I'm very pro-vaccine , is that I was unfortunate to be a victim of the 70's Pertussis scare. Although I was vaccinated, many kids weren't. Unfortunately I didn't sero-convert and caught Whooping Cough, 23 years later I can still vividly remember the choking feeling. My sister also caught it, she was only 6months old at the time, and I am very, very, very lucky to still have a sister.


    Les x

  • Can I just ask DreadyGeordie... you say about pregnant mothers, and I assume adults in general, being covered by vaccinations but it is in my understanding that as adults we aren't covered by the vaccination programme anymore as it is something that happens in childhood and by the time you have reached an adult hood you aren't covered anymore??? so how will this prevent the spread in your opinion?


    There are also arguments to say that some diseases are kept alive by the vaccination programmes because they haven't allowed natural immunity to develop, to let the disease die out naturally, due to vaccinations not covering our lifetimes!!....therefore adults will be the ones that will carry it on if they are still able to be infected... and those diseases that have been said to have died out by the vaccination programme have actually just evolved to be called something different!!

    I can understand where you are coming from, from the perspective of working with children affected, as I am sure it must be very disturbing but to be honest there is a small proportion of children that aren't vaccinated in relation the large number that are... so how many children were vaccinated but still caught the disease as having vaccinations aren't 100% effective?? And how many of them have had their immune system impaired by the amount of vaccinations that are given to them?? And we know that meningitis has been connected to an impaired immune system, and this particular illness has been more prevalent in recent years since the step up in the vaccination programme...and its triple jabs etc...


    Sorry just giving food for thought on the subject!!

  • I had mine vaccinated at a time wen there was a lot of scaremongering about the jabs so it was not a decision i took lightly.Babies are so tiny and vunerable that it seems wrong to deliberatly inject them with 'diseases',but i understand the argument for 'herd immunity' and there were no known risk factors in our family to suggest a bad reaction was likely.My son still managed to contract mumps a few years later,despite bein vaccinated against it but because of the vaccine he managed to fight it off quickly.i think i'd probably vaccinate again if i had a little one now but its an individual decision and there are risks whatever you do.I suggest you look at your family history and your childs health and development and talk it through with a sympathetic doctor(they do exist!).And the point made earlier is true,bringin up kids naturally doesnt mean never takin advantage of advances in medical science

  • Quote from Little Mouse


    There is currently a huge mumps and measles problem at my University as a result of the MMR link to autism scare (which has been completely disproved as the work of a single rogue doctor who fiddled his results now, by the way)


    Seems like Dr Wakefield did have a bit of a head start by only testing Autistic children, but what bugs me is that there are other countries, Canada for one who have deemed this particular vaccination as unsuitable for use following their own independant tests. It also bugs that drs and hvs tend to pass off the individual vaccines you can get from private clinics as not suitable for use and choose to give the impression that these people are charlatans, when, in honesty i do think that it boils down to cost. I don't think the government want to admit that the individual ones are suitable as the public would then demand that we used individual injections instead of mmr, increasing costs. The jury is still out on the mmr vaccine in other countries at least with American Drs reinvestigating the links themselves. If this is an open and closed case then i find it hard to see why they would do that.

  • My son is 13 years old and is as healthy as can be without the need for vaccinations, he has a healthy diet and a healthy mind and generally gets over illnesses very fast love and magic Josie:waves:

  • Quote from Hedgewitch

    Seems like Dr Wakefield did have a bit of a head start by only testing Autistic children, but what bugs me is that there are other countries, Canada for one who have deemed this particular vaccination as unsuitable for use following their own independant tests. It also bugs that drs and hvs tend to pass off the individual vaccines you can get from private clinics as not suitable for use and choose to give the impression that these people are charlatans, when, in honesty i do think that it boils down to cost. I don't think the government want to admit that the individual ones are suitable as the public would then demand that we used individual injections instead of mmr, increasing costs. The jury is still out on the mmr vaccine in other countries at least with American Drs reinvestigating the links themselves. If this is an open and closed case then i find it hard to see why they would do that.


    I would seriously suggest you do some research into the actual facts of the research that has been conducted into the proposed link between the MMR and autism before claiming that 'the jury is still out' :rolleyes:. My mother works as a pathologist and has spent a vast amount of the last ten years of her working life trying to fight this hysterical movement based on faulty science and a failure to understand the truly awful nature of the diseases children are vaccinated against.


    The individual vaccines are effective (according to the majority of the research), BUT there is a far higher chance of the course of vaccinations not being completed with the single vaccinations, putting the child at huge risk.

  • My daughter contracted measles when she was 18 months old... it was horrendous. And she is so lucky not to have suffered any lasting damage to her health, but that is probably because she had her jabs a couple of months before... ( yeah I was really suprised when they said she had measles!!) and I for one am really thankful that we as a society have the chance to immunise our children against viruses which can cause serious long term damage...and even death.

  • What about vaccinations for older children/adults?


    I avoided all mine through school, now I gets a letter in the post and in a few weeks ..


    on teh 25th I'm meant to be getting MMR, and the Diptheria/Tetnus/Polio


    ?

  • Quote from Little Mouse

    The individual vaccines are effective (according to the majority of the research), BUT there is a far higher chance of the course of vaccinations not being completed with the single vaccinations, putting the child at huge risk.



    But this is from your point of view and others who are pro-vaccinations.

    I believe that their are risks running both ways!!

    From my point of view, and other folk who are anti-vaccinations, we believe that the risks are far higher health wise from vaccinating our children, so we choose not to vaccinate.


  • Please do get the vaccinations - however it is your own health you are risking by not getting the jabs (ignoring the already-mentioned problem of pregnant women suffering from miscarriages as a result of coming into contact with people who have not had the vaccinations and contracted the diseases) and so it is ultimately up to you. Really there is no reason why you shouldn't get all of them while they're available to you (just look up the symptoms and death rates for them for starters!).



  • Naeni, fortunately we are still perfectly in our right not to have them if we chose not too... unfortunately in some countries they are more compulsory.

    I still get reminder letters from the doctors for Torr but it doesn't mean they have to be done!!

    If you chose not to have them then you don't have to have them :)

  • Quote from Stormypagan

    But this is from your point of view and others who are pro-vaccinations.


    Actually there is a wealth of scientific research on the subject :rolleyes:. Unlike a lot of people, I don't just decide my opinions and make sweeping statements according to what 'feels' or 'seems' to be true.

  • Forgot to say although I am anti vaccinations, I think as adults we can handle better the vaccinations injected in our bodies if we are fit and healthy that is... not to say for one minute that I think you should have them at any age but our immune systems are usually more developed and able to cope with the poison the inject into you!! Also if you do do have them naeni then think about having homeopathy to counteract any side effects you may experience :)

  • Quote from Little Mouse

    Actually there is a wealth of scientific research on the subject :rolleyes:. Unlike a lot of people, I don't just decide my opinions and make sweeping statements according to what 'feels' or 'seems' to be true.
    [/color]



    And there is plenty against vaccinations too :rolleyes: ... as I said before I didn't take the decision I did lightly as a parent.. I researched in depth before I made my mind up!!

    Not to mention that as a parent I have brought up two children without vaccinations, who are fit and healthy to date.

    And you said that you "don't just decide my opinions and make sweeping statements according to what 'feels' or 'seems' to be true" but you are happy to except the opinions and be influenced by your own mother on this!!


    Anyway, when you have a moment read some of the stuff on here ...

    http://www.vaclib.org/indexdoc.htm#basic

    There is a lot of scientific facts for you on there :)

  • I am not 100% sure about vaccinations. It is something that I will definately look in to when I have kids and I think will probably have done.


    One thing I would like to point out is that whilst a healthy diet etc does improve immune systems etc. The reason that a lot of kids who are not vaccinated don't get ill is surely because the majority of other kids are, therefore preventing the spread of the illnesses in the first place?

  • Quote from Stormypagan

    And there is plenty against vaccinations too :rolleyes: ... as I said before I didn't take the decision I did lightly as a parent.. I researched in depth before I made my mind up!!



    But most of the research that backs the anti immunisation movement has been disproved...
    From PERSONAL experience I think measles... the fever...ottis media (which my daughter had at the same time).... is much much worse for a child to endure. And I also feel that her symptoms could have been a lot worse if she had not been vaccinated. Be thankful that you're kids haven't had measles.. I hope they never do.


    Quote from stormypagan

    Quote from stormypagan


    http://www.vaclib.org/indexdoc.htm#basic

    There is a lot of scientific facts for you on there :)


    Really? all I saw were some percentages... how large is the sample they were taken from...