Money- Good or Evil

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UKHippy is a long running online community and of likeminded people exploring all interpretations on what it means to be living an alternative lifestyle -- we welcome discussions on everything related to sustainability, the environment, alternative spirituality, music, festivals, politics and more -- membership of this website is free but supported by the community.

  • Quote from Atomik

    I don't think what individuals would or wouldn't "support" is the issue. It's not about our opinions and beliefs - it's about the realities that are manifested by our fundamental nature.


    Ah, I didnt mean it in the "opinion and beliefs" way but in their going along with it without real opposition :) They'd cry out for their mummies rather than say "fuck this" and wander off to make the most of their newly aquired social freedom :D


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    For example, I've seen communes of well-meaning, sincere and idealistic people descend into the worst kind of political in-fighting, despite the intentions of their members.


    Intentions schmentions. Anyone who wants to set up an ordered, controlled, managed society is in their heart always going to be suited to "political in-fighting". They can claim otherwise, but words are cheap :)


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    People are fucked up. Some are more fucked up than others, but we're all fucked up.


    Nah, in the wider sense they arnt fucked up at all; they are just a different sub-species of humanity (again, species is a poor word as part of the difference is learned/gained/nuture-based not just nature-based, but hey... :) ); one that is poorly adapted to longterm living in the world, granted, but they may yet prove successful, develop space colonisation and find a way to live as interstellar locusts-on-steroids :D


    But thats only one strain :)

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    Ah, I didnt mean it in the "opinion and beliefs" way but in their going along with it without real opposition :) They'd cry out for their mummies rather than say "fuck this" and wander off to make the most of their newly aquired social freedom :D

    Still not the same aspect of our natures that I'm talking about though. Never mind.


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    Intentions schmentions. Anyone who wants to set up an ordered, controlled, managed society is in their heart always going to be suited to "political in-fighting". They can claim otherwise, but words are cheap :)

    None of the people I knew in such situations "wanted to set up ordered, controlled, managed societies". Quite the opposite. They really wanted to prove that it was possible to live without hierarchies and structures. But none of us are free of our baggage and our natures, and our concious intentions aren't always what we end up manifesting.

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    Nah, in the wider sense they arnt fucked up at all; they are just a different sub-species of humanity (again, species is a poor word as part of the difference is learned/gained/nuture-based not just nature-based, but hey... :) ); one that is poorly adapted to longterm living in the world, granted, but they may yet prove successful, develop space colonisation and find a way to live as interstellar locusts-on-steroids :D

    Well that's a million miles from my world-view, so no benefit to be gained from further discussion really. :D

  • Quote from Atomik

    None of the people I knew in such situations "wanted to set up ordered, controlled, managed societies". Quite the opposite. They really wanted to prove that it was possible to live without hierarchies and structures.


    Well, you just do that, you dont need to carefully manufacture it :D which is what most of them, in my experience, try to do :D


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    But none of us are free of our baggage and our natures, and our concious intentions aren't always what we end up manifesting.


    Exactly :) I was agreeing with you on that part :) Many folks claim to be looking for a society "without hierarchies and structures" but regardless of the words, and what is rattling around in their conscious minds, they invariably create a hierarchical and structured society because in their hearts they believe it must be manufactured in order to exist and a manufactured society will always be hierarchical and structured in practice :insane:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    Well, you just do that, you dont need to carefully manufacture it :D

    I'm not talking about people carefully manufacturing it - I'm talking about people facillitating the manifestation of their desires by putting themselves in a position where they're likely to come to fruition.


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    Exactly :) I was agreeing with you on that part :)

    :fourhorsemensmilie: :harhar:

  • Quote from Atomik

    I'm not talking about people carefully manufacturing it - I'm talking about people facillitating the manifestation of their desires by putting themselves in a position where they're likely to come to fruition.


    But deliberately doing so to create a certain society that they have in mind and want to bring to fruition....hence the ending up in power-politics etc. If they wernt trying to manufacture something, why else would they end up in power-scraps?


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    :fourhorsemensmilie: :harhar:


    :death::handbags::doc::weed::reddevil:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    But deliberately doing so to create a certain society that they have in mind and want to bring to fruition

    I never saw that in the examples to which I refer. I saw people trying to live their own lives for themselves... not create any type of society. Don't project your prejudices onto everyone. ;)


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    If they wernt trying to manufacture something, why else would they end up in power-scraps?

    Human nature. ;)

  • Quote from Atomik

    I never saw that in the examples to which I refer. I saw people trying to live their own lives for themselves... not create any type of society. Don't project your prejudices onto everyone. ;)


    The fact that they fell "into the worst kind of political in-fighting" suggests otherwise :whistle:Why argue and fight over politics unless you are trying to create a society?

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Coyote

    The fact that they fell "into the worst kind of political in-fighting" suggests otherwise :whistle:Why argue and fight over politics unless you are trying to create a society?

    Human nature. "Politics" isn't something that arises from a belief system or set of ideals - its a product of human interaction. When we live in close proximity with other humans, we impact upon each other's lives. That results in negotiation and compromise: politics.

  • Quote from Atomik

    Human nature. "Politics" isn't something that arises from a belief system or set of ideals - its a product of human interaction. When we live in close proximity with other humans, we impact upon each other's lives. That results in negotiation and compromise: politics.


    I was thinking more of politics in the sense of; "Politics is the process by which groups make decisions" and a distinct ongoing group is a structure in the social sense. That, when combined with the fact that it got to nasty in-fighting, shows a desire to control that structure rather than simply get along and have the occasional squabble.


    :)

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • Quote from Atomik

    Money's not a thing in itself. It's simply an expression of human nature. Some will seek money according to need, some according to greed. Some will use it for good, others will use it for ill.


    I agree with Atomik its how you use it not the currency itself

  • Quote from Coyote

    I was thinking more of politics in the sense of; "Politics is the process by which groups make decisions" and a distinct ongoing group is a structure in the social sense.

    Well it was my post, and that wasn't the sense in which I meant it.


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    That, when combined with the fact that it got to nasty in-fighting, shows a desire to control that structure rather than simply get along and have the occasional squabble.

    Uhhh... not really. Your evidence for that rests upon you telling me that you know better than I do what I meant by politics!

  • Quote from Atomik

    Your evidence for that rests upon you telling me that you know better than I do what I meant by politics!


    :rolleyes:


    Is this the half-hour argument? :reddevil: :harhar:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."


  • Heh heh could just do a whole thread with stills from this film. Genius!

  • OH DEAR OH DEAR what have I started but seen as how I have, I might as well continue.


    I have just seen an advert for the RSPCA (a very good cause) that are asking for a monthly donations of just £3 (a very small amount for money, just a pint at the pub) a month.


    Now I am very torn because if my cats (my gods forbid) where hurt in the street and a stranger found them, I would wont them to get medical attention. Now the problem is that because there are so many GOOD charities out there that I can't possibly donate to all of them (not until I win the lottery anyway) and so I find myself just giving dribs and drabs as and when I see a collection tin.


    Now if for example the companies that make/sell the medical equipment didn't put such a ludacris price on there mercandice then the donation money would good down and probably more people would give (I'm talking like 10p a donation) to the cause.


    But the companies are allowed to put any price tag on there goods that they is fit. So were does the cycle end.


    Rayale

  • And just as a sudden change in my apinion, Richard Branson (Virgin)(I'm not saying he is a virgin, I'm saying he is the boss of the Virgin company.....please don't sue me) and Al Gorr (probably spelt wrong and nearly president of the U.S (should have been)) have started the most awesome thing I have ever witnessed. They have put up a reward of 25million dollars to anyone who can find a "cure" to global warming. Fantastic, I was sure (pessamist) that the world was doomed but due to these groovy dudes we might stand a chance. A truly GOOD use of money.

  • Quote from Rayale

    And just as a sudden change in my apinion, Richard Branson (Virgin)(I'm not saying he is a virgin, I'm saying he is the boss of the Virgin company.....please don't sue me) and Al Gorr (probably spelt wrong and nearly president of the U.S (should have been)) have started the most awesome thing I have ever witnessed. They have put up a reward of 25million dollars to anyone who can find a "cure" to global warming. Fantastic, I was sure (pessamist) that the world was doomed but due to these groovy dudes we might stand a chance. A truly GOOD use of money.



    I've found a cure - sudden dramatic lifestyle changes for the Western world. Only that's not an idea people are comfortable with ...

  • i voted for money is bad because it influences people to steal money to become richer, kill for it, do bad things for it, etc. it does encourage good things as well, people use money as a motive to get others to help, to help using the money, etc. it is good as well as bad, however if there was no money and everything was free life would be a lot more peaceful because people wouldn't have money as an influence or incentive to do bad things to get it.

  • Quote from Natural Mystic

    i voted for money is bad because it influences people to steal money to become richer

    People were stealing for a long time before money came on the scene. People steal because it's in their nature, not because money makes them.

  • i think money is a good thing. how else would you deal with finances like if eveything was all trade then things would become really complicated. its only a bad thing to people when they allow themself to fall victim to greed. i think this can evenb happen with little amounts of money. i regularly give to different causes. only just started doing this over the last few months. i have very little money but still is possible to suffer from greed. but to be honest god blesses these times three fold and the benifits of giving are much more than you could imagine.

    when living on such little money and giving it puts so much into perspective. like the balance of how much i actually need to look after myself and how much i can afford to let go of.

    yes it is a teaching of the bible and the best way ive heard it described is a matter of concience...

  • Quote from Bear Face

    why do you think its in their nature



    its human nature. if you think your any exeption then think again. none of us are any different we all have thoughts of greed. it is human nature. its just what kind of person you choose to be. what you focus on and where you heart is that determines you decitions as an individual and shapes you into the person you'll become.

  • Quote from Elliott

    its human nature. if you think your any exeption then think again. none of us are any different we all have thoughts of greed. it is human nature. its just what kind of person you choose to be. what you focus on and where you heart is that determines you decitions as an individual and shapes you into the person you'll become.


    No strictly true. Greed comes out of insecurity - its a need to increase your power, and that comes from feeling a need for large ammounts of power (which in turn comes from feeling insecure in your environment). The catch is, no ammount of power/money will change a fundamental belief in a hostile environment (only a change in perception will do that) - which leaves only 3 options:


    1, keep accumulating without changing your basic notion of a hostile environment


    2, change your perception of your environment so that it is no longer percieved as hostile


    3, blot out your awareness of hostility (with drugs, brainwashing-distraction ect)

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."

  • 4 accept that we're all human reguardless of any explanation of how or why and allow our hearts to be changed by accepting that its beyond our own power and ask jesus to meet with us through prayer. :) worked for me

  • Quote from Elliott

    4 accept that we're all human reguardless of any explanation of how or why and allow our hearts to be changed by accepting that its beyond our own power and ask jesus to meet with us through prayer. :) worked for me


    Sounds a bit like "3" to me :whistle:

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do."